I personally think its nonsense to say with absolute certainty Tuchel prefers to utilise youth players. There's enough reasonable evidence to suggest Tuchel was forced into using Chalobah. 

Fact of the matter is we all want to see Broja, Gallagher, and Colwill be integral players this season. We will know for sure just how much Tuchel likes utilising youth players in the coming months. 

 

Edited June 21, 20224 yr by Sconnie Blue

3 hours ago, dkw said:

It makes no sense to sell Broja, we desperately need 2 out and out strikers in the squad, look at the mess we were in last season when we let 2 go and only brought in Lukaku. He`s an excellent prospect, has shown in a poor side he can have an impact on the premier league, top level defenders struggled to handle him at times. Letting him go on the cheap is just moronic.

Yep 100%, my point was people who are saying no to Richarlison because of Broja coming back in. As promising as Broja is we can't afford to go into next season with just Havertz and Broja as our number 9 options 

8 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

Yep 100%, my point was people who are saying no to Richarlison because of Broja coming back in. As promising as Broja is we can't afford to go into next season with just Havertz and Broja as our number 9 options 

Sterling can also play false 9 and although reservations can be made about him too it’s a far better option than f**king Richarlison of all people.

Havertz - Broja - Sterling

That works for me.

13 minutes ago, Term_X said:

Sterling can also play false 9 and although reservations can be made about him too it’s a far better option than f**king Richarlison of all people.

Havertz - Broja - Sterling

That works for me.

Why not richarlison? I think he's fit in really well, to be honest we need both Richarlison and Sterling/Dembele (both if we can flog Timo and Ziyech)

2 hours ago, bisright1 said:

No one was offering 30m for trevoh though. I assume if someone came in with that offer, we'd have accepted it. 

I'm surprised west ham are thinking of paying 30m for Broja. It's a lot of money for a player with 16 league goals in his career 

He bullied a lot of defences last season. The lack of goals hides his overall play. There is a reason they are willing to pay that much for him. Other teams will too. In fact, if we well him for that fee, we would be wishing we sold him for a lot more.

14 minutes ago, STATS said:

He bullied a lot of defences last season. The lack of goals hides his overall play. There is a reason they are willing to pay that much for him. Other teams will too. In fact, if we well him for that fee, we would be wishing we sold him for a lot more.

Alternatively, we don't sell him and he goes nowhere with us and we end up letting him go to some Italian club for 5-10m in 2 years time and we wish we sold him.

Strikers are a weird breed. Can never really predict who makes it. 

3 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Alternatively, we don't sell him and he goes nowhere with us and we end up letting him go to some Italian club for 5-10m in 2 years time and we wish we sold him.

Strikers are a weird breed. Can never really predict who makes it. 

It is reported that Tuchel wants to assess Broja for me which states that they saw enough from him to think he could add something next season. If that is case, selling him for £30m would be poor from us. I seen enough from him to think he will be a very good striker and we should be laughing at £30m same way West Ham would laugh if we bid £60m for Rice. If it is £30m with a buy back clause then more understandable but either way with Lukaku going, we should definitely be giving Broja pre-season with us before we accept any bids.

53 minutes ago, STATS said:

It is reported that Tuchel wants to assess Broja for me which states that they saw enough from him to think he could add something next season. If that is case, selling him for £30m would be poor from us. I seen enough from him to think he will be a very good striker and we should be laughing at £30m same way West Ham would laugh if we bid £60m for Rice. If it is £30m with a buy back clause then more understandable but either way with Lukaku going, we should definitely be giving Broja pre-season with us before we accept any bids.

I agree. But I think if we sell broja, tuchel will be sanctioning it. 

The question might be asked of him, "if you want richarlison for 50m we need to sell broja for 30m"

And then tuchel may decide to act now rather than wait and see.

4 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

I agree. But I think if we sell broja, tuchel will be sanctioning it. 

The question might be asked of him, "if you want richarlison for 50m we need to sell broja for 30m"

And then tuchel may decide to act now rather than wait and see.

If we do that then I will literally blow my mind. Richarlison is a good player, but not one we should be funding to get rid of our academy prospects.

10 hours ago, bisright1 said:

I agree. But I think if we sell broja, tuchel will be sanctioning it. 

The question might be asked of him, "if you want richarlison for 50m we need to sell broja for 30m"

And then tuchel may decide to act now rather than wait and see.

This is why we urgently need a DoF with a long term vision. Giving Tuchel the overall say in who comes and goes takes us down a one way street that will need rebuilding every time we change coach. 
As for Broja, personally I wonder wether he will reach the ceiling others predict. That said letting him go after a loan that was moderately successful in a breakthrough season seems to be very short sighted. 

1 hour ago, charierre said:

This is why we urgently need a DoF with a long term vision. Giving Tuchel the overall say in who comes and goes takes us down a one way street that will need rebuilding every time we change coach. 
. 

The idea is we get a coach we trust and don't change him for the next 8-10 years following the Klopp Guardiola model.

We could get it wrong, but then we could get it wrong with a DoF too.

6 minutes ago, Whiskyjack said:

The idea is we get a coach we trust and don't change him for the next 8-10 years following the Klopp Guardiola model.

We could get it wrong, but then we could get it wrong with a DoF too.

Pep and Klopp both have strong DoF behind them. The eight to ten year model is always the aim…nobody hires a coach with the view of sacking him even though in football it is inevitable. Long term management doesn’t always equate to success and sometimes leads to stagnation, a very fine balancing act.

2 hours ago, charierre said:

This is why we urgently need a DoF with a long term vision. Giving Tuchel the overall say in who comes and goes takes us down a one way street that will need rebuilding every time we change coach. 
As for Broja, personally I wonder wether he will reach the ceiling others predict. That said letting him go after a loan that was moderately successful in a breakthrough season seems to be very short sighted. 

Doesn't matter how great the DoF is and their long term vision. They will have financial considerations at play and will make a judgement on, "what is the likelihood Broja will be a first team player" vs "is today the maximum value we can extract from him?"

Even if Broja does have the ability to progress to be our first team player, but not for another 2 years, is his development best done outside the club so he could rejoin on a buy back clause or will he look to exit in 2024 regardless when he's top tier as we've held him back and he's only got a year left on his contract.

Making those calls are impossible to always get right. And football fans repeatedly punish mistakes in hindsight. It's why no one other than city fans consistently like their board 

15 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Doesn't matter how great the DoF is and their long term vision. They will have financial considerations at play and will make a judgement on, "what is the likelihood Broja will be a first team player" vs "is today the maximum value we can extract from him?"

Even if Broja does have the ability to progress to be our first team player, but not for another 2 years, is his development best done outside the club so he could rejoin on a buy back clause or will he look to exit in 2024 regardless when he's top tier as we've held him back and he's only got a year left on his contract.

Making those calls are impossible to always get right. And football fans repeatedly punish mistakes in hindsight. It's why no one other than city fans consistently like their board 

The question is though why get rid one year into a long term deal? Unless he had seriously regressed or wanted to leave. We have to be careful what messages are relayed to our young players. Is there still a clear path or are they best to all just do like Livromento and Lamptey and refuse to sign a contract and back themselves. Personally I don’t think he’s ready at present and another loan would be in everybody’s best interest. Buybacks assume the player wants to return and are really only used to extract greater profit. 

 

 

As it should be.

I think Broja will have an excellent season, for us.

At his best for Southampton he was extremely good. Form dropped for the last two-three months but it was clear as day that his potential is sky high. Absolutely abused West Ham on at least two occasions so it's no wonder they would be interested in him.

Broja has a contract til 2026 with us, is just 20, one of the best strikers in his age bracket, played a solid campaign with Southampton in his first full Premier League season and at times showed real top player potential, combining explosive pace with physicality, even though he lacked consistency and still looked a bit raw which is to be expected given his age(not that the majority of our offensive players offered consistency in the league anyway), so it would be extremely short sighted and really stupid on football and business terms to sell such a player in such a circumstance.

If like suggested we would sell him for £30m to West Ham so we could acquire Richarlison for £50+m(+higher wages) from Everton it would be a real clusterf.uck decision. I mean if we look at their profile a competent sporting director would most likely prefer to sign Broja if both players cost the same because of the bigger potential upside in Broja's development and from reading the comments here i think the majority in this forum would prefer him to.

 

On 22/06/2022 at 18:09, bisright1 said:

Doesn't matter how great the DoF is and their long term vision. They will have financial considerations at play and will make a judgement on, "what is the likelihood Broja will be a first team player" vs "is today the maximum value we can extract from him?"

Even if Broja does have the ability to progress to be our first team player, but not for another 2 years, is his development best done outside the club so he could rejoin on a buy back clause or will he look to exit in 2024 regardless when he's top tier as we've held him back and he's only got a year left on his contract.

Making those calls are impossible to always get right. And football fans repeatedly punish mistakes in hindsight. It's why no one other than city fans consistently like their board 

You talk too much senses which does not bode well here 😁😁 but you are right and this is exactly what happen to all player (especially young one).  We as fans love to use hindsight but our board can't do so. 

With Borja, do you think think he will do well here? I am not so sure unless Tuchel tweak his system. But a lot of fans here think so. Let's say we keep him, if he does well all great but what happen if Tuchel doesn't fancy him (like with Tammy) and he struggle for the whole season, then want to leave. He will have one year less on his contract which mean not only we have one unhappy player for the whole season but we will sell him for less (loss loss solution). This where manager play huge factor and i am angry when fans critcize just our board but not the manager. If a manager think that player is a good player and want him to stay he need to find a way to use him otherwise there is no reason for that player to stay and for our club to keep him. Tammy is a starter for Roma, borja is a starter for west ham, Tomori won scudetto with Milan. 

 

Edited June 24, 20224 yr by Bob stark

The Bar isn’t set very high for Broja to succeed on last seasons dismal return from our Strikers, so we should give him a go, we are a far better team than Southampton, and don’t lack for creating chances, and TT knows that

Great opportunity for Broja to make his mark at Chelsea. With Lukaku out of the picture, if he has any ambition as a footballer he should be busting a nut to impress Tuchel in pre-season, rather than seeking moves to the likes of West Ham or Southampton. #9 shirt up for grabs ... 

Edited June 24, 20224 yr by Sexyfootball

Just like Tammy and Tomori I've no doubt he has a good career ahead of him, but like them he might not be good enough for us.  The only way to know if he's good enough to play for Chelsea and fits Chelsea is for him to play for Chelsea.  We learn nothing by selling him now or loaning him out until his contract ends.  Let him prove he's good enough, if not sell him.  It's up to Broja to take his chance.

27 minutes ago, DarkMata said:

Just like Tammy and Tomori I've no doubt he has a good career ahead of him, but like them he might not be good enough for us.  The only way to know if he's good enough to play for Chelsea and fits Chelsea is for him to play for Chelsea.  We learn nothing by selling him now or loaning him out until his contract ends.  Let him prove he's good enough, if not sell him.  It's up to Broja to take his chance.

I could see him setting up goals for Timo, as he’s quite a beast compared to Boo-making, and he may find a bit of space, same for Mount

10 hours ago, Bob stark said:

You talk too much senses which does not bode well here 😁😁 but you are right and this is exactly what happen to all player (especially young one).  We as fans love to use hindsight but our board can't do so. 

With Borja, do you think think he will do well here? I am not so sure unless Tuchel tweak his system. But a lot of fans here think so. Let's say we keep him, if he does well all great but what happen if Tuchel doesn't fancy him (like with Tammy) and he struggle for the whole season, then want to leave. He will have one year less on his contract which mean not only we have one unhappy player for the whole season but we will sell him for less (loss loss solution). This where manager play huge factor and i am angry when fans critcize just our board but not the manager. If a manager think that player is a good player and want him to stay he need to find a way to use him otherwise there is no reason for that player to stay and for our club to keep him. Tammy is a starter for Roma, borja is a starter for west ham, Tomori won scudetto with Milan. 

 

I have no idea if he will do well. I want him to, but he's young and young players can veer in multiple directions. He's not played enough games for me at a good level, in comparison to mount Gallagher and Reece James who were fully ready to be promoted when they came into the fold. 

Look at Rashford, miles ahead of broja at the same age, but would anyone prefer him now to someone like richarlison? 

Someone said most DoFs would sign Broja over Richarlison if they were the same price. Which is nonsense. And it's why they aren't the same market value. 

If this was football manager or fifa, I'd loan broja to west ham for a season, I'd sign richarlison, and I'd assess again in 12 months. But that's not how the world works. My big fear (regardless if we sign richarlison) is broja stays for 12 months and doesn't crack our team and it's a wasted step in his development. 

10 hours ago, DarkMata said:

Just like Tammy and Tomori I've no doubt he has a good career ahead of him, but like them he might not be good enough for us.  The only way to know if he's good enough to play for Chelsea and fits Chelsea is for him to play for Chelsea.  We learn nothing by selling him now or loaning him out until his contract ends.  Let him prove he's good enough, if not sell him.  It's up to Broja to take his chance.

Think Tomori was more than good enough for us to be honest. Agree on Broja though, would prefer to see him play another season on loan than have to compete with Havertz for the no.9 spot