Tough one to take to be honest. I felt Chelsea did enough to win without playing particularly great either. Also very annoying that it’s yet another fa cup final where referee decisions have not gone our way. 
 

Hopefully we are not entering a slump right at the wrong time. Crucially important to get the win during the week now to try and get some momentum going into the CL final. 

4 hours ago, Blue Exile said:

Looks like you learn something new every day. Your image doesn’t include all the rules, especially the caveats. The first exception to it being an offence is interesting shall we say...

I posted the full law earlier. Here it is again:

Quote

Ifab Law 12: Fouls and misconduct
Handling the ball:

For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.

It is an offence if a player:

deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
after the ball has touched their or a team-mate’s hand/arm, even if accidental, immediately:
scores in the opponents’ goal
creates a goal-scoring opportunity
touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)
The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close.

Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:

directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger

So the bit you quoted about touching the body before the hand is explicitly said NOT to apply when a goal-scoring opportunity is created Immediately.

So, as Peter Walton said on BT, it all comes down to the definition of immediately.

In his view, the 7 seconds between the handball and the goal means it was not immediately.

But note how in his reply, he comes up with 7 seconds by looking at when the ball hit the back of the net. The opportunity to put it there arose a couple of seconds earlier, when he received the ball. Which was approx. 4 seconds after the handball. Is that not immediate?

 

Had some time to breathe (and sober up) after the loss. It’s probably the most gutted I’ve been after an FA Cup final loss and I’m not really sure why because I like Leicester.
 

I think I’m really disappointed by the manner we lost, we didn’t look up for it at all pretty much the whole game and Tuchel, as good as he’s been, needs to realise we can’t keep making 5/6/7 changes every game especially when our games at the minute are all important. Not to mention that last minute disallowed goal that imo should have stood.

1 hour ago, rocker_joker said:

This goal should have stood. 

one thing you should probably know about me.

If I say I promise I didn't do something, you can be rest assured I did... this picture I did actually move chilwell back so he is in an onside position

I have zoomed in and drawn multiple straight lines trying to find 1 single angle where chilwell was onside and everyone I draw chilwell actually looks more offside. If we go to the law that the arms and hands aren't accepted. If you draw a line through the defenders shoulders half of chilwells upper body is actually offside

We had several more good chances than Leicester even with our B+ team.

Leicester scored a cracking goal from blocking James upfield pass with a possible handball and our players not reacting quickly enough to the rebound or claiming handball.

I think TT got it wrong and took too long to make changes.

Important three games left now and TT owes no players favours for these.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

I posted the full law earlier. Here it is again:

So the bit you quoted about touching the body before the hand is explicitly said NOT to apply when a goal-scoring opportunity is created Immediately.

So, as Peter Walton said on BT, it all comes down to the definition of immediately.

In his view, the 7 seconds between the handball and the goal means it was not immediately.

But note how in his reply, he comes up with 7 seconds by looking at when the ball hit the back of the net. The opportunity to put it there arose a couple of seconds earlier, when he received the ball. Which was approx. 4 seconds after the handball. Is that not immediate?

 

I think it’s more about what happens in the passage of play after, rather than the duration of time. After all it’s conceivable for an accidental handball to occur deep in one half and the ball ends up in the net at the other end in a very short duration of time, that doesn’t mean the handball directly influenced the goal as so much has to happen until the goal is scored. 
 

Yesterday a player accidentally handled it, the ball deflected to a team mate, he advanced before passing, that player then advanced possibly 20 yards before beating the keeper well outside the box with defenders backing off. The passage of play had to develop before the goal opportunity occurred. 
 

The flip side to this for me is Azpi’s goal against Ajax, when the ball glanced off his hand and he just lashed it in. 
 

I guess it all comes down to the interpretation of ‘immediate’. 

46 minutes ago, Blue Exile said:

I think it’s more about what happens in the passage of play after, rather than the duration of time. After all it’s conceivable for an accidental handball to occur deep in one half and the ball ends up in the net at the other end in a very short duration of time, that doesn’t mean the handball directly influenced the goal as so much has to happen until the goal is scored. 
 

Yesterday a player accidentally handled it, the ball deflected to a team mate, he advanced before passing, that player then advanced possibly 20 yards before beating the keeper well outside the box with defenders backing off. The passage of play had to develop before the goal opportunity occurred. 
 

The flip side to this for me is Azpi’s goal against Ajax, when the ball glanced off his hand and he just lashed it in. 
 

I guess it all comes down to the interpretation of ‘immediate’. 

Exactly. Immediate is what refs and VAR want it to be at the time. A bit like the imaginary Tshirt line on the bicep, which can be adjusted up or down on the blurry freeze frame (which can be captured at the convenient moment around the vicinity of the blurry foot, which is often helpfully not captured in the same freeze frame).

Edited May 16, 20215 yr by Backbiter

4 hours ago, Valerie said:

At no point during the match did I feel that our players - bar the exception or two - had the desire to win this, to play for the badge. We've lost before and I'm usually quite capable of shaking off the disappointment, but now I'm downright gloomy. Is this our team? What the hell happened? We beat Atletico, Porto, Madrid, City, and we can't beat Leicester? This isn't just on Werner missing chance after chance, this is on the mentality of the squad. And with what gameplan are they sent out onto the pitch for heaven's sake? If we have such a world class head coach, having seen in earlier matches how we can't break down teams, why isn't he more rigorous and decisive in changing things around?

I'm dreading things to come.

Looked more like Frank's last side against Leicester with better defending didn't they?

5 hours ago, Valerie said:

At no point during the match did I feel that our players - bar the exception or two - had the desire to win this, to play for the badge. We've lost before and I'm usually quite capable of shaking off the disappointment, but now I'm downright gloomy. Is this our team? What the hell happened? We beat Atletico, Porto, Madrid, City, and we can't beat Leicester? This isn't just on Werner missing chance after chance, this is on the mentality of the squad. And with what gameplan are they sent out onto the pitch for heaven's sake? If we have such a world class head coach, having seen in earlier matches how we can't break down teams, why isn't he more rigorous and decisive in changing things around?

I'm dreading things to come.

You see, Thomas Tuchel is a poor coach. When u arrive in a final, your effort should surpass all the efforts you have been putting in since the beginning.

How do u work so hard to arrive in a final, and you reach the final, you seem lazy, doesn't he want trophy, doesn't he want glory?

I mean they should work so hard, it should be the match of their lives, but what did they do? Play weak, play as if they are not as good as Leicester.

I don't think Tuchel can win trophies for us, maybe he cannot handle the pressure that comes with playing finals.

You wanted to win a final, you did not play your first choice keeper. You wanted to win a final, you did not play Chillwell who may have been an outlet for us yesterday, instead you played Alonso.

People are talking of Werner, that he runs a lot, but if you run a lot, but you don't know what to do with the ball when you get the ball, then what's the point, you cannot play with your teammates, you cannot score a goal, then what are you doing on the pitch?

Talking of Mason Mount, Mount is average, but I don't think he is a player that can carry the team on his shoulders the way Hazard probably carried us. For me, I think Havertz can carry this team on his shoulder. Maybe it is because he is competing with Mason Mount who is British, that is why many of us don't like Havertz.

You need someone who can supply the striker good passes, see wisdom is better than strength, it's not about just running and running and running, when you run and you cannot give a good pass to the striker, how will you score? Mount should know how to give good pass to Werner for us to score, if not, i will prefer Pulisic, Ziyech and Havertz to play up front so that they can be giving good passes to themselves.

And since he played James in the back three yesterday, he didn't need to play Aspilicueta, Hudson-Odoi should have played in that wing back, he would have been helping us on that right wing.

 

Edited May 16, 20215 yr by hephzibah

20 minutes ago, hephzibah said:

You see, Thomas Tuchel is a poor coach. When u arrive in a final, your effort should surpass all the efforts you have been putting in since the beginning.

How do u work so hard to arrive in a final, and you reach the final, you seem lazy, doesn't he want trophy, doesn't he want glory?

I mean they should work so hard, it should be the match of their lives, but what did they do? Play weak, play as if they are not as good as Leicester.

 

The only answer i can give you is that in Tommy's mind we have yet to play a final this season, the only final he considers a final is the 29th May. So everything is on that game for him, if he finished 3rd and won the FA cup, but lost the CL final he would consider it a failure.

If he gets us over the line on the 29th (big if) he is untouchable.

No matter what happens he will be here next season, but he'll have little credit from 44k fans next season for turning out teams like he has in the last two games.

9 minutes ago, hephzibah said:

You see, Thomas Tuchel is a poor coach. When u arrive in a final, your effort should surpass all the efforts you have been putting in since the beginning.

How do u work so hard to arrive in a final, and you reach the final, you seem lazy, doesn't he want trophy, doesn't he want glory?

I mean they should work so hard, it should be the match of their lives, but what did they do? Play weak, play as if they are not as good as Leicester.

I don't think Tuchel can win trophies for us, maybe he cannot handle the pressure that comes with playing finals.

You wanted to win a final, you did not play your first choice keeper. You wanted to win a final, you did not play Chillwell who may have been an outlet for us yesterday, instead you played Alonso.

People are talking of Werner, that he runs a lot, but if you run a lot, but you don't know what to do with the ball when you get the ball, then what's the point, you cannot play with your teammates, you cannot score a goal, then what are you doing on the pitch?

Talking of Mason Mount, Mount is average, but I don't think he is a player that can carry the team on his shoulders the way Hazard probably carried us. For me, I think Havertz can carry this team on his shoulder. Maybe it is because he is competing with Mason Mount who is British, that is why many of us don't like Havertz.

You need someone who can supply the striker good passes, see wisdom is better than strength, it's not about just running and running and running, when you run and you cannot give a good pass to the striker, how will you score? Mount should know how to give good pass to Werner for us to score, if not, i will prefer Pulisic, Ziyech and Havertz to play up front so that they can be giving good passes to themselves.

Too soon to judge TT until after the season is over and he clearly did not start with our best team.

Werner messed up a chance or two, sometimes he creates an assist yet not yesterday. He worked hard without any significant impact.

Mount is probably our best player, our only midfielder capable of scoring from the edge of the box, yesterday he shot wide and forced the save of the match. He is also a good passer as well as good at closing down the opposition.

Havertz has become better under TT though clearly still has room for improvement. I'm not sure he is competing with Mason Mount that depends on the formation. Mount runs from deep to create a chance and Havertz runs to finish a move in the box. 

Re Mount finding Werner think that is difficult when they are both closing down the opposition at pace think the passes to Werner should come from Jorginho or Kante or backs.

If Havertz fulfills his potential he might be the player to share the burden yet disappointed he does not have a killer shot, his strength seems to be timed runs into the penalty area for the clip over or past the keeper. He is a better header of the ball than Abraham.

Then there are the other attacking players like Pulisic and Ziyech,

6 minutes ago, coco said:

The only answer i can give you is that in Tommy's mind we have yet to play a final this season, the only final he considers a final is the 29th May. So everything is on that game for him, if he finished 3rd and won the FA cup, but lost the CL final he would consider it a failure.

If he gets us over the line on the 29th (big if) he is untouchable.

No matter what happens he will be here next season, but he'll have little credit from 44k fans next season for turning out teams like he has in the last two games.

That leaves two managers on the 29th May with a big desire to win the CL as that would be Pep's crowning achievement at City.

I would expect TT to get more players this end of season season and move some on.

Thought we might see Zouma go and Tomori come back and strengthen elsewhere.

 

Anyone seen Tielemens interview after the game saying he received a text message in the morning telling him "to aim for the top corner" 🤔

6 minutes ago, smkhairat said:

Anyone seen Tielemens interview after the game saying he received a text message in the morning telling him "to aim for the top corner" 🤔

Earth shattering advice. Did he reply '... duh?'

11 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Speaking of Wednesday Brit, in the first half Leicester were given a free kick for handball by Silva for the exact same hand position that Arsenal were not punished for in the incident you mentioned. Same distance traveled from the ball to hit the hand too basically as well.

 

So 9 finals out of 12 lost eh? We are becoming the second biggest bottle jobs in the land, behind Spurs. Though we are frightfully catching them up at an alarming rate.

The glorified soccer aid isn't a trophy. 

Jimmy Hill was always the butt of jokes on MOTD, but fair play he said what he felt but was always a neutral on screen, he was a class act, compared to Lineker who literally was a Leicester fan on TV for the day.... at the expense of the British taxpayer, you'd think he would remember that when doing his job.

Just now, coco said:

Jimmy Hill was always the butt of jokes on MOTD, but fair play he said what he felt but was always a neutral on screen, he was a class act, compared to Lineker who literally was a Leicester fan on TV for the day.... at the expense of the British taxpayer, you'd think he would remember that when doing his job.

I don't actually mind people who nail theìr colours to the mast, it is/was people like Hansen and Andy Gray who do my head In, they try and pass off as impartial but when you listen between the lines of what they're saying they're anything but.

Just now, Argo said:

I don't actually mind people who nail theìr colours to the mast, it is/was people like Hansen and Andy Gray who do my head In, they try and pass off as impartial but when you listen between the lines of what they're saying they're anything but.

Were not talking about pundits, but lead presenters, you expect it from pundits, but not the host of the show, Des Lynham Brighton fan, never went over the top with it, no pre-match 3 minute video segment about how Des followed the club as an 8yo through thick and thin, bla bla....

I'm still pissed off as you can probably tell.

Fark me what a sh*te game of football that was yesterday!

Firstly, the team turning up in tracksuits. Farking disrespectful that.

Secondly, the fans not making a sound (maybe the fans being sh*t or the mic placement. Who knows)

Third, the inconsistently sh*te officials in this country. Handball for Silva but not the Leicester player. Plus the non offside call!

And last, the twatty Leicester sub who threw the club badge thingy after the match. Bet that doesn't get mentioned by the media!

Edited May 16, 20215 yr by Old Shaggy

Speaking of the BBC bias yesterday, I also seem to remember Ian Wright saying he was supporting Leicester because they had 'proper owners', obviously a dig at the Super League nonsense. Felt sorry for Ash, they made their feelings clear they were all Leicester fans for the day. Also, whenever you get one of those close VAR offside calls on MOTD, Lineker, Shearer etc. all spend a good 10 minutes ranting about it killing the game, advantage should go to the attacker and so on but yesterday, glossed over completely.

As for the game, I've got nothing to say that hasn't already been said, we did ourselves no favours at all. Certainly not enough to deserve winning it any more than Leicester. Also didn't like Tuchel saying we weren't angry, just disappointed. They should bloody well be angry after such a limp display in a cup final, we all are!

Was inevitable but the extent of celebration everywhere over Chelsea’s defeat, the media included, has made the last 24 hours harder. 
Leicester had one shot in target and their performance is being talked about as some kind of masterclass.

what I find classically hypocritical is the Amartey situation...can you imagine the outcry if that was a Chelsea player doing that to the Leicester pennant? 

 

Let’s not pretend, we were sh*t but Leicester stank the place with one shot on target and goal. At least we created a bit more, despite being sh*t. If not for the refs and joke of VAR, we’d still be doing the penalty kicks to see who wins.

44 minutes ago, Argo said:

The glorified soccer aid isn't a trophy. 

Will be 9 from 12 come two weeks imo.

14 minutes ago, The Brit said:

Was inevitable but the extent of celebration everywhere over Chelsea’s defeat, the media included, has made the last 24 hours harder. 

I find that a huge compliment, I'd find it a lot more difficult to stomach if the "neutrals" just went "unlucky Chels good game".

The fact we trigger such anger that a defeat for us is celebrated like their team did it themselves is a huge nod of approval to our standing.