7 minutes ago, Argo said:

Let's be honest here if Lukaku nets next week against Liverpool even in defeat he'll be protected from criticism for month, never mind if he scored a winner in the UCL final.

Kai is not escaping it where it counts though, its very possible if not highly likely he's played his way out of the Lillie and Cup final lineup (despite his record in finals), whereas we know full well Lukaku will get rewarded with starts in both despite the fact he has no track record in the UCL knockout rounds and has never scored against Klopp's Liverpool. 

Ziyech has responded to criticism and a spell out of the team the only way a footballer should, by right Lukaku should be dropped from Lillie and Liverpool and if he had anything about him he'd come back in the team chomping at the bit with a point to prove but we know it won't happen, if he thought playing back up to prime Diego Costa at 20 was beneath him he'll cause a riot if he's dropped for these.

Lukaku was key in us winning our most recent trophy. So let's not forget that either.

Sure, our opinions doesn't matter but Havertz is performing at a worse level than Lukaku and he's supposed to be a creative outlet for us and feed our striker. He's failing hard, and I mean hard.

One can beat Lukaku over having a single touch in 45 minutes but in my opinion it says far more about our delivery line than our spearhead who's obviously been told to play off and look to get in behind our opponents CBs. Even Kante could have put him through on goal twice in the first half if he was even a decent passer in attacking areas. But he isn't.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Lukaku was key in us winning our most recent trophy. So let's not forget that either.

Sure, our opinions doesn't matter but Havertz is performing at a worse level than Lukaku and he's supposed to be a creative outlet for us and feed our striker. He's failing hard, and I mean hard.

One can beat Lukaku over having a single touch in 45 minutes but in my opinion it says far more about our delivery line than our spearhead who's obviously been told to play off and look to get in behind our opponents CBs. Even Kante could have put him through on goal twice in the first half if he was even a decent passer in attacking areas. But he isn't.

 

 

Havertz is most certainly not playing at a level below Lukaku. Not even close!

3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Lukaku was key in us winning our most recent trophy. So let's not forget that either.

Sure, our opinions doesn't matter but Havertz is performing at a worse level than Lukaku and he's supposed to be a creative outlet for us and feed our striker. He's failing hard, and I mean hard.

One can beat Lukaku over having a single touch in 45 minutes but in my opinion it says far more about our delivery line than our spearhead who's obviously been told to play off and look to get in behind our opponents CBs. Even Kante could have put him through on goal twice in the first half if he was even a decent passer in attacking areas. But he isn't.

 

 

Diego Costa had to deal with the same Kante and a passed his prime Matic in that area for most of the season yet still fired us to the title.

As you know I find system tax a cop out anyway but it only can be remotely plausible if a player does their bit, Kane fed on scraps yesterday so did something about it and created a goal, what's stopping Lukaku drifting wide and using his power to force his will on a match (Similar to the goal he scored against Arsenal for Everton in 2014) or pressing to force a mistake like Eto'o did for us against Schalke?

And I'm sorry but 7 touches in a match for a team that dominates possession is inexcusable. Gabby Agbonlahor was turned into a the butt of pundits jokes for having more than that in one half for bottom of the table Villa away to peak Pochettino's Spurs. 

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

Diego Costa had to deal with the same Kante and a passed his prime Matic in that area for most of the season yet still fired us to the title

And prime Hazard and a Cesc and Pedro who were still performing at a very high level. None of our current attackers are fit to lace the boots to any of those three.

Let's not compare the talent Costa was surrounded with, with our current situation. It's worlds apart.

Had Lukaku been surrounded by Cesc and Hazard he would absolutely kill it.

 

 

Just now, Sindre said:

And prime Hazard and a Cesc and Pedro who were still performing at a very high level. None of our current attackers are fit to lace the boots to any of those three.

Let's not compare the talent Costa was surrounded with, with our current situation. It's worlds apart.

Had Lukaku been surrounded by Cesc and Hazard he would absolutely kill it.

Hazard was also in the 12/13 and 13/14 teams when the same service excuses were being made for Torres (despite a 32 year old Samuel Eto'o coming in during the second of those season's and performing well in the very same set up).

Cesc was a bit part player at best in 16/17 and infact barely played atall up until Christmas. 

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

Hazard was also in the 12/13 and 13/14 teams when the same service excuses were being made for Torres (despite a 32 year old Samuel Eto'o coming in during the second of those season's and performing well in the very same set up).

Cesc was a bit part player at best in 16/17 and infact barely played atall up until Christmas. 

Torres wasn't excactly service related. He was broken by the time we signed him. Hence who old Eto'o somewhat performed but he was also surrounded by absolute machines in Lampard, Hazard, Oscar, Mata etc etc.

Again, entirely different situations.

1 minute ago, Sindre said:

Torres wasn't excactly service related. He was broken by the time we signed him. Hence who old Eto'o somewhat performed but he was also surrounded by absolute machines in Lampard, Hazard, Oscar, Mata etc etc.

Again, entirely different situations.

Stick that Eto'o in this team and I would put my life savings on him scoring atleast three times in those three games against Spurs if given the same sitters (especially the two Mount gave Lukaku in the league game, one of which he had the gall to moan at Callum for not getting a pass immediately afterwards to then proceed to stand offside while we tried to build our next attack) they'll probably be a clutch goal against Liverpool and/or City in there aswell. 

Look at his goals for us, how many of them needed elite or even decent service? What's stopping Lukaku pressing and forcing mistakes the way Samuel did for his goals vs Schalke and WBA? Or making a clever movement to lose the defender like he did against Liverpool? Or using his pace to lose the defender like he did against Cardiff? This is a 3x Champions League winner btw, coming into a club he quite clearly resented in the past and worked his nuts off, yet a player who's done extremely little by comparison who apparently supports this club like we do not doing some footballing basics is excusable because he's not got the best service behind him? Not having it sorry

And let's not act like he's had no chances, the last month alone he had four sitters against Spurs, a tap in against Plymouth, two big chances at City and a big one against Brighton with the score 1-1, he also had one big chance to make a difference yesterday and couldn't be arsed to get back onside. In the summer the narrative "yeah he's flawed but he'll bag a solid number to make up for it" yet now he's missing chances at a rate that would make Morata at his lowest blush it's apparently his Uefa Champions League winning teammates fault.

@Sindre we're going back and forth here so I'll summarise.

When Lukaku is doing his bit, working hard and making something resembling a difference (in other words still winning us points despite everything behind him) then I'll be open to discussing (some level of) system tax. 

But for aslong as he's breaking negative records and failing to control a ball properly forget it.

We all know he's good enough, he's played in this league so much before,

I genuinely believe he's not trying, he clearly is not happy being here, any elite athlete who ballons in weight to 103kg has a serious mental issue, I don't blame the other players not passing to him the guy has done nothing to fit in, just a disrespectful clown, he needs to be got rid of as soon as possible, even at a huge loss. 

10 minutes ago, tmarmsi said:

We all know he's good enough, he's played in this league so much before,

I genuinely believe he's not trying, he clearly is not happy being here, any elite athlete who ballons in weight to 103kg has a serious mental issue, I don't blame the other players not passing to him the guy has done nothing to fit in, just a disrespectful clown, he needs to be got rid of as soon as possible, even at a huge loss. 

The only difference before compared to now was he took more of his chances. 

In general play he's always been this sh*t.

Surely Tuchel has to bench Lukaku after that sh*t performance on Saturday. I know that things have been tough for him (in terms of scoring goals), but the best way to break out of a funk is to work hard, be a pest and annoy the oppositions back line, be available for your supporting teammates, and not sulk.

he hasn’t worked hard, he has continuously sulked, he just walks around the pitch and makes a 12 yard run randomly then gets irritated the ball isn’t played to him. 
 

Tuchel sounded completely different when discussing Lukaku after the match yesterday. I am hoping that this is an indicator that he will be on the bench. But, I also wouldn’t be surprised if he did start. 
 

I don’t think I’ve been this irritated at a Chelsea player. Other strikers and players have had some really tough spells at Chelsea, but the majority worked hard and Stamford Bridge loves/loved them. Just look at Timo Werner, he name is sung continuously bc - even though his goal scoring has been frustrating - at least he runs and works and presses and doesn’t sulk. 

How much our forwards bar Ziyech suck makes me wonder what does Harvey Vale have to do to get some game time? 

24 minutes ago, chiefBlueCFC said:

Tuchel sounded completely different when discussing Lukaku after the match yesterday. I am hoping that this is an indicator that he will be on the bench. But, I also wouldn’t be surprised if he did start. 

He said similar when he stunk The Ethiad out yet has started him in every game since.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Tuchel is clearly trying to force Lukaku to hit some form. As long as we win games I am guessing it is a good thing. 

The numbers don't back it though. Our "creative" outlets don't either try to find Lukaku or they are completely out ofnö sync.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

@Sindre we're going back and forth here so I'll summarise.

When Lukaku is doing his bit, working hard and making something resembling a difference (in other words still winning us points despite everything behind him) then I'll be open to discussing (some level of) system tax. 

But for aslong as he's breaking negative records and failing to control a ball properly forget it.

Then I believe you are holding him to an impossible standard Argo. Any striker is dependant on what's going on behind him. Even Lionel Messi who have scored 2 goals in 15 league apperances for PSG in a farmers league.

Lukaku is on top of that a certain type of player. No one expected him to be Harry Kane as he's not that type of player at all. He needs to be fed and he's a proven goalscorer in many top leagues when he does, including in the Premier League. He's also scored about 60 goals in his last 60 apperances for Belgium and was the top scorer of the Nations League as well as being part of the best XI award in the Euros.

I don't think anyone can argue that the man shines for Belgium. But he's surrounded by top class player there who can pick him out. Here he does not and he looks very poor. Even for Mourinho's ManUtd he scored 16 league goals here in England.

Lukaku attempting to dribble the ball.

We can blame the service all we want to, but the reality is that whenever there is a cross or a pass into space, he’s nowhere to be seen. I agree that our foes are not just Lukaku. We struggle to play fast, forward passes behind the opponent, and our front and midfield players take too many touches sideways, but Lukaku is not doing anything to get to the few balls through and crosses that are served. He’s not even trying to make the opportunities for himself like Kane did yesterday and tries every week for the spuds. For all the sh*t finishing Werner had, he at least gets into position, moves within the box and tries to win us the ball pressing high, Lukaku is not even trying and keeps complaining when his team mates do not make the pass to his foot. He’s not been a solution to our lack of finishing, and he’s proving to be more of a problem than what we had for our style. Cut our losses as soon as we can and show some confidence on Broja next season, he is showing at Southampton what we are sorely lacking.

16 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Then I believe you are holding him to an impossible standard Argo. Any striker is dependant on what's going on behind him. Even Lionel Messi who have scored 2 goals in 15 league apperances for PSG in a farmers league.

 

 

Expecting him to have more than two touches in one half (something that is next to impossible without some serious hiding) and putting some effort in (like not lazily standing offside which would have cost us two points if it weren't for a player he was pinning his incompetence on a few weeks ago getting us off the hook) isn't holding him to high standards.

16 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I don't think anyone can argue that the man shines for Belgium. But he's surrounded by top class player there who can pick him out. Here he does not and he looks very poor. Even for Mourinho's ManUtd he scored 16 league goals here in England.

You mean Belgium where he's flopped when it actually matters in the Euro's and World Cup every single time?

Against France in 2018 he was so bad not even Hazard playing one of the best games of his career was enough to get Belgium through.

It's Wilmots and especially Martinez's fault though. To have Eden, Thorgan, Witsel and De Bruyne yet deciding the one to build around is Lukaku is staggeringingly bad decision making, bordering on sabotage. That team should have been moulded around the needs of the former and the latter with Lukaku playing whatever foil role was required to accommodate them.

Edited February 20, 20224 yr by Argo

36 minutes ago, RMH said:

We can blame the service all we want to, but the reality is that whenever there is a cross or a pass into space, he’s nowhere to be seen. I agree that our foes are not just Lukaku. We struggle to play fast, forward passes behind the opponent, and our front and midfield players take too many touches sideways, but Lukaku is not doing anything to get to the few balls through and crosses that are served. He’s not even trying to make the opportunities for himself like Kane did yesterday and tries every week for the spuds. For all the sh*t finishing Werner had, he at least gets into position, moves within the box and tries to win us the ball pressing high, Lukaku is not even trying and keeps complaining when his team mates do not make the pass to his foot. He’s not been a solution to our lack of finishing, and he’s proving to be more of a problem than what we had for our style. Cut our losses as soon as we can and show some confidence on Broja next season, he is showing at Southampton what we are sorely lacking.

I was baffled by Lukaku movement yesterday. Then I watched Kane game against soton, I was ready to bash Lukaku but then I just watched our game vs Brighton to confirm. I got more confused, I saw lukaku made similar movement to kane, he dropped deep, he moved left, he moved right.

I really don't understand whether it is Lukaku or he is just being instructed to stay middle by Tuchel.

Edited February 20, 20224 yr by Bob stark

1 hour ago, evissy said:

Tuchel is clearly trying to force Lukaku to hit some form. As long as we win games I am guessing it is a good thing. 

The numbers don't back it though. Our "creative" outlets don't either try to find Lukaku or they are completely out ofnö sync.

Anyone who watched yesterday's game could see that Lukaku was hiding, it was impossible for others to find him because in at least 4-5 attacking sequences he just went behind his defender or just kept being in between 2 defenders. Impossible to play the final ball to him, the one time he got the ball into space he took a fast shoot and it was offside. I can't remember any top signing having just about 5 touches during a whole game against a lower mid table team, unheard of.

94 minutes

7 touches 

0 hope

The data is telling you something Tommy boy.

You cannot blame 10 players for not finding him.

He's become the hide not seek World champion.

28 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Anyone who watched yesterday's game could see that Lukaku was hiding, it was impossible for others to find him because in at least 4-5 attacking sequences he just went behind his defender or just kept being in between 2 defenders. Impossible to play the final ball to him, the one time he got the ball into space he took a fast shoot and it was offside. I can't remember any top signing having just about 5 touches during a whole game against a lower mid table team, unheard of.

It's never happened before, never mind against a lower mid table team. 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Expecting him to have more than two touches in one half (something that is next to impossible without some serious hiding) and putting some effort in (like not lazily standing offside which would have cost us two points if it weren't for a player he was pinning his incompetence on a few weeks ago getting us off the hook) isn't holding him to high standards.

Well, you expect him to win us points despite anything that might be going on behind him. So in other words, you'd expect him to be top class whether he had prime Fabregas and Hazard behind him or Havertz and Pulisic and others that generally can't assist to save their lives. Obviously who's with him in attacking areas makes a massive difference and if you are prepared to absolve every other attack to put the blame solely on Lukaku then you are being unreasonable in my view.

He should have been put through, clean on goal at least twice yesterday but the obvious pass never came. That is a problem no matter what anyone says.

Lukaku is very frustrating currently. No argument that but i'll be damned if for example Havertz who's absolutely sh*te himself is going to escape any cristicism. If Havertz was a good as we expected he'd make a huge difference for our striker. Instead he's strolling around, looking uninterested and generally sucks this season.

 

Edited February 20, 20224 yr by Sindre

4 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Well, you expect him to win us points despite anything that might be going on behind him. So in other words, you'd expect him to be top class whether he had prime Fabregas and Hazard behind him or Havertz and Pulisic and others that generally can't assist to save their lives. Obviously who's with him in attacking areas makes a massive difference and if you are prepared to absolve every other attack to put the blame solely on Lukaku then you are being unreasonable in my view.

He should have been put through, clean on goal at least twice yesterday but the obvious pass never came. That is a problem no matter what anyone says.

Lukaku is very frustrating currently. No argument that but i'll be damned if for example Havertz who's absolutely sh*te himself is going to escape any cristicism. If Havertz was a good as we expected he'd make a huge difference for our striker. Instead he's strolling around, looking uninterested and generally sucks this season.

 

Haverz strolling around and looking uninterested? What game did you watch? He and Ziyech were the only players capable of taking on players and creating something.

If you are Chelsea's biggest ever signing, you get injured and in the aftermath you talk about your love to your previous club, can't find your form and look completely lost your name is Lukaku Bolingoli. 

Basically he needs to go back to basics and score a couple of goals so people would forget the interview, the transfer fee and concentrate on backing him.