I would divide our midfield into the following 

world class: Enzo

close to becoming world class: Caicedo 

very good PL top 6 level: Gallagher 

potential world class but also ready for first team action: Santos & Lavia 

huge potential, not sure if world class, good top 6 player or just for profit and not yet ready for first team action: Casadei, Uguchukwu, Webster? 

that leaves us with 5 in midfield for 2 or 3 positions. Which doesn’t seem excessive at all. Especially considering we are aiming to get into Europe again and the 5 subs we can make. I would say our midfield is set for the next decade. 

The only player who is at this time more established and has the same level of potential than Lavia and Santos in that position and role is Camavinga 

Edited August 15, 20232 yr by azpi28

7 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

So does lavia only play if Caceido is injured, Surely we ain’t playing, Caceido, Lavia, and Enzo???
Chukie and Santos ain’t gonna get much game time, and will Gallagher now be sold?

You don’t pay £50m+ for a player to sit on the bench, he starts every game when he is fit alongside the 2 £100m+ midfielders.

 

8 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

I think Lavia is an interesting signing. He's had a lot of hype/promise since his City days. Unlike a lot of young midfielders, he actually appears much better defensively than in attack. He's a great dribbler and very good in tight spaces, but often undermines himself with sloppy passes and is yet to consistently show he can contribute to the attack. 

My concern is that you don't really develop that attacking side of the game playing for a big team, in big games where you can't take risks without consequence. I think he would have benefited from staying at Southampton for a few years to develop his overall game with a bit more freedom, much like Declan Rice did at West Ham.

Assuming he forms a midfield three with Enzo and Caicedo, Lavia is naturally going to be the most defensive of the three and his role would likely be limited to getting the ball to them as soon as possible. I think football has entirely moved on from being able to accommodate an attacking passenger in defensive midfield, the era of players like Busquets, Mikel etc is long dead. You need your DM to be capable in attack because, as we have learned over the few years watching Jorginho, Kante and Kovacic, teams will just let them have the ball and press/mark everyone else to close down options, knowing they are unlikely to do much with it.

This is the biggest concern; we seem to be making big signings in positions that are behind the trend. Last season we spent big money on Cucurella which was unnecessary and bought Gusto as cover for James, meanwhile the other top teams in Europe had transitioned to either not using fullbacks or just using one. This season we have spent a ridiculous sum on 2 DMs when most teams have transitioned to playing a 4-1-4-1 (with 3/4 CBs), it’s madness.

 

7 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

We need midfield depth with PL experience - it is as simple as that.  To all the comments about how do you fit Enzo, Caicedo and Lavia in a team - what happens if Enzo got injured and we hadn't signed Lavia.  Looks pretty light again.

The engine room wins games, many of which are now 100+ mins long.  We need options and legs - keep up intensity and roll in many late goals.  It does likely mean loans for some younger players (relatively speaking), but long term that is also a good thing.

Have you been watching City, Arsenal, Madrid in the last season, even Liverpool towards the ends of the season, and now Utd have transition or in the process of playing 1 DM & shifting a FB into midfield, and playing double 8s/10s. If we value Lavia at £50m+, and we assume he is going to be starting game (will be crazy to sit him on the bench at that fee), then the Caicedo money should have been used to buy a quality RW & a 10. And if Caicedo was the ideal option, use the Lavia funds to strengthen further afield. It’s the 1 on top and 4 behind that win games in modern football in the 4-1-4-1. 

 

54 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Not a massive fan of this signing now we have Caicedo. Could use that money elsewhere.

 

Oh well, he's a good player at least.

Just a waste; Santos and Ugochukwu might as well start packing their bags. But they are on relatively big wages and long contracts, I just don’t see the long term picture with them.

14 minutes ago, azpi28 said:

I would divide our midfield into the following 

world class: Enzo

close to becoming world class: Caicedo 

very good PL top 6 level: Gallagher 

potential world class but also ready for first team action: Santos & Lavia 

huge potential, not sure if world class, good top 6 player or just for profit and not yet ready for first team action: Casadei, Uguchukwu, Webster? 

that leaves us with 5 in midfield for 2 or 3 positions. Which doesn’t seem excessive at all. Especially considering we are aiming to get into Europe again and the 5 subs we can make. I would say our midfield is set for the next decade. 

The only player who is at this time more established and has the same level of potential than Lavia and Santos in that position and role is Camavinga 

You can’t have a whole team of World class players , but you can have a World class team.

If you play 3 non scoring midfielders you either have only four defenders which means either Disasi or Thiago miss out or you just play two attackers and treat chiller as a goal scoring winger. 
 

so probably Silva drops out Jackson and sterling start and the third attacking position as of now is between Mudryk and carney. 
 

in that case neither chilker nor Reece will be able to get forward as much. 
 

personally I thought the shape against Liverpool suited the players and let the wingbacks play like they wanted to. We had 4 routes to goal, Jackson, chiller, sterling and carney. 

2 hours ago, coco said:

You can’t have a whole team of World class players , but you can have a World class team.

Unless your Barca 2011-12

2 minutes ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Unless your Barca 2011-12

They were indeed all World class, but also cheating f**kers.

 

2 hours ago, azpi28 said:

I would divide our midfield into the following 

world class: Enzo

close to becoming world class: Caicedo 

very good PL top 6 level: Gallagher 

potential world class but also ready for first team action: Santos & Lavia 

huge potential, not sure if world class, good top 6 player or just for profit and not yet ready for first team action: Casadei, Uguchukwu, Webster? 

that leaves us with 5 in midfield for 2 or 3 positions. Which doesn’t seem excessive at all. Especially considering we are aiming to get into Europe again and the 5 subs we can make. I would say our midfield is set for the next decade. 

The only player who is at this time more established and has the same level of potential than Lavia and Santos in that position and role is Camavinga 

We only have 1 world class player in our squad right now and that's Thiago Silva, all the rest is potential. Enzo has all the traits but in my opinion until you show it over a consistant amount of seasons at a high level then I think we can talk about Enzo in that catergory.

 

Edited August 15, 20232 yr by Sheva

4 minutes ago, Sheva said:

 

We only have 1 world class player in our squad right now and that's Thiago Silva, all the rest is potential. Enzo has all the traits but in my opinion until you show it over a consistant amount of seasons at a high level then I think we can talk about Enzo in that catergory.

 

Reece when fit and firing is definetely world class for me. Only problem is he's injured too much.😪

5 minutes ago, Sheva said:

 

We only have 1 world class player in our squad right now and that's Thiago Silva, all the rest is potential. Enzo has all the traits but in my opinion until you show it over a consistant amount of seasons at a high level then I think we can talk about Enzo in that catergory.

 

You are right. I just meant that he has shown it in the World Cup and I got carried away with the performance against Liverpool which was certainly world class 

7 minutes ago, Sheva said:

 

We only have 1 world class player in our squad right now and that's Thiago Silva, all the rest is potential. Enzo has all the traits but in my opinion until you show it over a consistant amount of seasons at a high level then I think we can talk about Enzo in that catergory.

 

Agree it's banded about too easily now. World class to me means you get into a world Xi matchday squad. I'll be honest there's a good amount of players that may get there in a few years but as it stands it's Thiago and Reece if he stays fit. 

Gallagher imo is nowhere near top 6 quality. He's more mid-table. 

22 hours ago, azpi28 said:

but i rate Lavia

he's very talented

I would like liverpool to end up with some washed 3rd rate 25yr old+ DM

Perhaps Jorginho might go there? He's not getting a kick at Arsenal.

44 minutes ago, Sheva said:

 

We only have 1 world class player in our squad right now and that's Thiago Silva, all the rest is potential. Enzo has all the traits but in my opinion until you show it over a consistant amount of seasons at a high level then I think we can talk about Enzo in that catergory.

 

He already has. He earned his move to Europe by performing for River Plate (a fanbase that make even Real's look placid) and before even breaking through there done the equivalent of winning Bouremouth the Europa League while on loan.

He's passed literally every single test that's been put infront of him.

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

He already has. He earned his move to Europe by performing for River Plate (a fanbase that make even Real's look placid) and before even breaking through there done the equivalent of winning Bouremouth the Europa League while on loan.

He's passed literally every single test that's been put infront of him.

He's 22 years old, he's not world class yet. Maybe I don't throw that word around that much but he's not on the level of the likes of De Bruyne and Rodri yet and they were not that level at 22 either.

 

 

Would Enzo make a world 11 right now?  Thinking he might make the bench. De  Britney  doesn’t make it right now due to injuries but probably Rodri and Bellingham do. 

1 hour ago, just said:

Perhaps Jorginho might go there? He's not getting a kick at Arsenal.

Jorgi is world class though.....Gol told me.

1 hour ago, ssur said:

Agree it's banded about too easily now. World class to me means you get into a world Xi matchday squad.

But with your criteria only one keeper is world class.

6 minutes ago, coco said:

But with your criteria only one keeper is world class.

Matchday squad includes subs so no.

1 hour ago, just said:

Perhaps Jorginho might go there? He's not getting a kick at Arsenal.

 

BREAKING: Bakayoko's rejects Liverpool. He prefers to stay unemployed 

Edited August 15, 20232 yr by azpi28

23 minutes ago, coco said:

But with your criteria only one keeper is world class.

i think if you would change it a little bit and make it about players who would be in the conversation to be into the World XI that would be quite good and you have to consider in when these players are in their prime. Enzo is 21. Modric wasn't that good at 21. 

 

Edited August 15, 20232 yr by azpi28

2 hours ago, azpi28 said:

You are right. I just meant that he has shown it in the World Cup and I got carried away with the performance against Liverpool which was certainly world class 

Not particularly picking on you define World Class.

Minecis if you’re good enough to represent your country in the world stage, otherwise it’s such a lazy statement, Thiago Silva, is still definitely world class, and So is Enzo, in fact you don’t currently get much more World Class?

2 minutes ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Not particularly picking on you define World Class.

Minecis if you’re good enough to represent your country in the world stage, otherwise it’s such a lazy statement, Thiago Silva, is still definitely world class, and So is Enzo, in fact you don’t currently get much more World Class?

Enzo won the World Cup and was best young player. That's as much world class you can get at 21. Also i don't think if Enzo plays like he did on Sunday he wouldn't look out of place in a World XI. 

Is this transfer definitely happening? Is it just a matter of time, or is it mostly X (formerly known as Twitter as the press have to continually point out) 'expert' speculation?

8 minutes ago, Snedger said:

Is this transfer definitely happening? Is it just a matter of time, or is it mostly X (formerly known as Twitter as the press have to continually point out) 'expert' speculation?

There's enough smoke to indicate it's definitely happening and Liverpool have moved on to other targets. 

53 minutes ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Not particularly picking on you define World Class.

Minecis if you’re good enough to represent your country in the world stage, otherwise it’s such a lazy statement, Thiago Silva, is still definitely world class, and So is Enzo, in fact you don’t currently get much more World Class?

Don't want to hijack this thread with this but maybe I just have a higher critera.

I just think you have to show it over a longer period of time with a level of consistency while winning things at a very high level. Pogba is good a example because he won the same awards at a similar age as Enzo but never really reached it at a club level in his prime.

Compare Paul Pogba to someone like Luka Modric. One is failed potential and the other is world class, I am not saying Enzo will become Pogba Im just saying he's not quite Luka Modric just yet.

 

Edited August 15, 20232 yr by Sheva

Please can someone explain to me, is Enzo an attacking midfielder?

Since we want to get another top midfielder in Lavia, and I think Lavia is a defensive midfielder, both Caicedo and Lavia should start as DMs.

Is Enzo an attacking midfielder or a defensive midfielder? If he's a DM, then who are we going to bench out of Enzo, Lavia and Caicedo if we want to play two DMs.

If Enzo is an attacking midfielder, then I understand why we are getting Lavia. Maybe Enzo will play as an attacking midfielder? But if not, do we need to get another top class DM, to stay on the bench?

We already have Andrey Santos and Lesley I think as squad players to stand in in our DM.

I thought Olise or Kudus would have been the priority now in midfield since we've got Caicedo.

Edited August 15, 20232 yr by hephzibah