46 minutes ago, big blue said:

1 win in 7, with city double header up next. 

1 win in 9 would see most managers under extreme pressure. 

I thought the idea of this new transfer committee, and recruitment team, was so we signed players for a club philosophy, and we appoint managers that fit into that philosophy too. 

There are just positives to cling to. 1 decent win vs an injury ravaged Milan team. 

We will see how the bridge atmosphere is if results and performances dont picked up dramatically in the next 6 weeks. 

We only appointed Vivell in the last few weeks though. So if there is a new philosophy in place the ink is barely dry.

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

I've got my doubts about Potter but trying to play down what he did at Brighton is an embarrassing rewriting of history, I'm sorry but it is.

What was spectacular about it? We've seen plenty of English Managers throughout the past couple of decades do really well with midtable teams and they were never raved about like Potter was. I am genuinely curious where the hype is coming from, it's not like he had no budget, he spent plenty of money. Brighton don't seem any different without him. Alan Pardew finished 5th place with a newly promoted Newcastle, which is better than anything Potter did at Brighton. 

8 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Not in terms of previous skill and achievements obviously they both come with a lot of pedigree, but the point still stands they both still needed way more time than most  are willing to give Potter to get their team playing, despite being “elite” level coaches. It’s a hypothetical but if Klopp or Pep had the first full season here that they had at Liverpool and City (8th and 4th) then our fans and owner at the time would’ve deemed that not good enough and sacked them before letting them build something. 

A closer comparison in terms of skill would probably be Potter and Arteta. Arsenal’s patience seems to be paying off with him as they’re 7pts clear and playing the best football they have for a long time. 
 

The wider point is how can we allow any manager to build something if we want to continue chopping and changing as soon as things stop going our way? 
 

The change from TT was ridiculous in the first place, given the timing.

Then to change to a totally unproven manager at this level was laughable, to all but Chelsea fans.

Todd Bhoely, knows nothing about football, yet is making decisions in the millions of pounds.

Now I can’t prove that he would of turned it and he probably may not have but maybe we should have stuck with the guy who stuck with us during our most difficult time a little longer, you know the guy who showed passion for this club who was willing to get to every match anyway necessary to make sure we played.

 

 

18 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Not in terms of previous skill and achievements obviously they both come with a lot of pedigree, but the point still stands they both still needed way more time than most  are willing to give Potter to get their team playing, despite being “elite” level coaches. It’s a hypothetical but if Klopp or Pep had the first full season here that they had at Liverpool and City (8th and 4th) then our fans and owner at the time would’ve deemed that not good enough and sacked them before letting them build something. 

A closer comparison in terms of skill would probably be Potter and Arteta. Arsenal’s patience seems to be paying off with him as they’re 7pts clear and playing the best football they have for a long time. 
 

The wider point is how can we allow any manager to build something if we want to continue chopping and changing as soon as things stop going our way? 
 

The comparisons with Klopp's first season need to stop. Liverpool finished 6th the season before and were sitting 10th in the table when Rodgers was sacked the next season. Klopp comes in, he steadies the ship, they finish 8th and reach two cup finals. That is progress from where they were heading.

We finished 3rd last season, won two trophies and made it to two cup finals. This season, with Potter in charge, we sit 8th and we're out of the league cup. It's highly likely that we will go out of the F.A cup and slip further down the table. We weren't looking great before Tuchel was sacked, but it wasn't as bad as this. As it stands, we are so much worse off compared to the season before or even this season before Tuchel was sacked.

Klopp's job at Liverpool was a lot tougher than Potter's this season and I don't believe for a second that either Klopp or Guardiola would have us sitting in 8th place right now if they were in charge of this Chelsea team.

Edited January 1, 20233 yr by Scott Harris

Potter would be out of his depth in a puddle what we do about it who knows but he hasn't got long. Couple of my mates were texting me from the ground patience is wearing thin I'm going on Thursday and if City piss all over us then he's on very thin ice with the fans certainly.

3 minutes ago, Wearyourcolours said:

The change from TT was ridiculous in the first place, given the timing.

Then to change to a totally unproven manager at this level was laughable, to all but Chelsea fans.

Todd Bhoely, knows nothing about football, yet is making decisions in the millions of pounds.

100% agree with the first part of that, as I said in my original post I think the timing of sacking Tuchel was silly. 

This job may be too big for Potter and obviously time will tell on that front. I’m willing to give him a bit of time and a chance to find out though. 

As for Boehly, some of his decisions have definitely been questionable. I am hopeful now though that the board is filled with various roles that hopefully the decisions will be more thought out going forwards. 

7 minutes ago, bluehaze said:

Potter would be out of his depth in a puddle what we do about it who knows but he hasn't got long. Couple of my mates were texting me from the ground patience is wearing thin I'm going on Thursday and if City piss all over us then he's on very thin ice with the fans certainly.

I agree that the atmosphere is likely to start getting ugly if we are totally rolled over by City. Forgetting the manager for a moment, I expect more from the players. Some of them just don't look like they care and should be nowhere near the starting 11.

Edited January 1, 20233 yr by forbzy

3 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

What was spectacular about it? We've seen plenty of English Managers throughout the past couple of decades do really well with midtable teams and they were never raved about like Potter was. I am genuinely curious where the hype is coming from, it's not like he had no budget, he spent plenty of money. Brighton don't seem any different without him. Alan Pardew finished 5th place with a newly promoted Newcastle, which is better than anything Potter did at Brighton. 

He took over a team that just survived relegation playing some pretty basic football, improved them while having them going toe to toe with the best teams and was improving further year or year. He didn't always get the results because he was managing Brighton but he has outsmarted the likes of Conte, Klopp, Tuchel, Pioli without parking the bus far too often for it to be a coincidence (well Pioli was with us but still). The main one I remember was at Anfield last season where from 2-0 down it was 2-2 and Liverpool spent the closing stages desperately hanging on for a point which they shouldn't have got.

His coaching has also significantly raised the value of the likes of Trossard, Macallister, Sanchez and Lamptey while finding room for players that you would think would never in million years be able to play a "footballing" system like Dunk and March.

46 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Cut the drama and sign Enzo. We play much better with James and Enzo is at that level sometimes it's that simple even if the manager is average.

If Enzo cannot inspire Benfica to get a result at Braga, rather than get thrashed, why do we think him going in to our side makes any difference? Benfica are a better side that us at the mo imo.

8 minutes ago, bluehaze said:

Potter would be out of his depth in a puddle what we do about it who knows but he hasn't got long. Couple of my mates were texting me from the ground patience is wearing thin I'm going on Thursday and if City piss all over us then he's on very thin ice with the fans certainly.

Heard that too.

Also some chatter that he's on notice with the owners now.

3 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

If Enzo cannot inspire Benfica to get a result at Braga, rather than get thrashed, why do we think him going in to our side makes any difference? Benfica are a better side that us at the mo imo.

I think he could be a good signing for us in the longer term, but I agree. I wouldn't expect any immediate turnaround in the midfield by adding him. A fully fit Kante would make a difference of course...

11 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

If Enzo cannot inspire Benfica to get a result at Braga, rather than get thrashed, why do we think him going in to our side makes any difference? Benfica are a better side that us at the mo imo.

I'm sorry but that's absolutely awful logic.

That's like using our defeat at Elland Road to question whether James can make any difference.

Edited January 1, 20233 yr by Argo

9 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

The comparisons with Klopp's first season need to stop. Liverpool finished 6th the season before and were sitting 10th in the table when Rodgers was sacked the next season. Klopp comes in, he steadies the ship, they finish 8th and reach two cup finals. That is progress from where they were heading.

We finished 3rd last season, won two trophies and made it to two cup finals. This season, with Potter in charge, we sit 8th and we're out of the league cup. It's highly likely that we will go out of the F.A cup and slip further down the table. We weren't looking great before Tuchel was sacked, but it wasn't as bad as this. As it stands, we are so much worse off compared to the season before or even this season before Tuchel was sacked.

Klopp's job at Liverpool was a lot tougher than Potter's this season and I don't believe for a second that either Klopp or Guardiola would have us sitting in 8th place right now if they were in charge of this Chelsea team.

I just think we’ve spent all this time (and money) getting Potter in and this structure behind the scenes, which has obviously been designed with a long term vision in mind, to make such a big change less than 5 months into that project means all that background work will be for nothing and therefore we start again from scratch. 

I’m willing to give him at least a year, if things are still crap in a year then by all means we should talk about his future. You and some others are less willing to give him that time, and that’s fair enough. In my opinion all this talk of a long term vision etc is rubbish if they sack the manager at the first sign of trouble. 

Like you, I liked Tuchel and wanted him to stay but for what it’s worth I think we would’ve finished outside the top 4 this season with him, given how we started and the fact it looked like the players had given up by the time he was sacked. Obviously no way of knowing for certain but I feel we’d have endured a similar slump under him at some other point this season. 

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

I'm sorry but that's absolutely awful logic.

That's like using our defeat at Elland Road to say James can't make any difference.

Too much hope being pinned on one player. The way some talk he will fix all our problems. He won't, and he may sink down to the level of mediocrity that everyone else, bar Silva, is offering.

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Too much hope being pinned on one player. The way some talk he will fix all our problems. He won't, and he may sink down to the level of mediocrity that everyone else, bar Silva, is offering.

It can, for all the praise United and Ten Hag are getting they'll be right beside us if not below us without Casemiro. Ten Hag was looking like a Frank De Boer regen until the latter showed up.

Will Enzo and James alone turn this into title challengers? No, but they'll make a big difference (Kante added if we can somehow keep him fit in the run in).

5 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Too much hope being pinned on one player. The way some talk he will fix all our problems. He won't, and he may sink down to the level of mediocrity that everyone else, bar Silva, is offering.

One midfield isn’t going to solve everything. 
 

Entire midfield needs a revamp. No combination works. 

49 minutes ago, Mod said:

I agree with you in part @goose but giving him 2 windows is a lot of time if there isn't any wins and complete lack of goals. We can't slip right down that table waiting to see if he'll come good with more time. The signings so far are not exactly brilliant or changed anything.

The side needs a manager who has experience with a winning mentality. Even Rafa had that and remember the roasting he got. That game today would've been won with a better manager as it was a vital game than would see us gaining in the table. A decent manager comes away with 3 points. You know someone like Jose wouldn't have had it any other way.

Yes @Mod it is a lot of time but sometime we have to get away from the hiring and firing.  If we get a decent fit squad around us in the next couple of months  with Kante,  James, Chilwell, Enzo?? available I would certainly like to see a big change in us. If it’s the same sh*t then maybe it will be time to depart. It will be a big call on Boehly. 
 

1 hour ago, Drogba1 said:

Exactly, the double standard is crazy. Even Lampard wasn't treated with this much leniency.

Entirely different owner, entirely different Board, entirely different vision. 

The stats Sky were showing before kick off today are worrying ie goals scored, chances being created etc. Graeme Sounness then questioned why the club would ditch two attackers (TW and RL) but then go and spend £175M on three defenders. Crazy when you think about it.

22 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I think he could be a good signing for us in the longer term, but I agree. I wouldn't expect any immediate turnaround in the midfield by adding him. A fully fit Kante would make a difference of course...

The fully fit Kante ship has sailed, sad times.

Do you know what would top this off if there wasn’t a clause in his contract to not pay him all of the rest of this remaining time if he’s sacked.

There is no way the board isn’t getting squeaky bum time. 
I am certain they expected better, not winning the league better but getting out worked out played out muscled by teams below you wasn’t on their radar.

33 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

I just think we’ve spent all this time (and money) getting Potter in and this structure behind the scenes, which has obviously been designed with a long term vision in mind, to make such a big change less than 5 months into that project means all that background work will be for nothing and therefore we start again from scratch. 

I’m willing to give him at least a year, if things are still crap in a year then by all means we should talk about his future. You and some others are less willing to give him that time, and that’s fair enough. In my opinion all this talk of a long term vision etc is rubbish if they sack the manager at the first sign of trouble. 

Like you, I liked Tuchel and wanted him to stay but for what it’s worth I think we would’ve finished outside the top 4 this season with him, given how we started and the fact it looked like the players had given up by the time he was sacked. Obviously no way of knowing for certain but I feel we’d have endured a similar slump under him at some other point this season. 

But it is becoming more and more obvious that the club have gone ar$e about face in doing all of this. 

Keep Tuchel in place, keep buying youngsters, put the backroom in place. Now we would be talking about Tuchels position if these had been the results and performances under him. The difference, if TT hadn't sorted this out (and I think he might have done), is that we would already have a structure in place and a "project" to promote to the right bloke.

Instead the club look like clowns sacking one of the best managers in the game straight after buying new players and then put a guy in who appears to be out of his depth whilst spending 5 months in trying to put the backroom together.

So amateurish. 

I don't know Potter, never met Potter, but I have seen his work with Brighton; a mid table to lower table football club under his tenure who won nothing, achieved nothing and had one or two decent results against bigger teams who had days off.  How the Americans ran their stats on Potter to make him the number one choice is head scratching...I would fire the stat guy tomorrow.   But what irks me no end, is whether Potter is the chosen one is neither here or there, but its when for a number of games now he picks a side with out of form players and when its obvious to everyone and his brother that the team is playing sh*te, he sits and watches and changes nothing in order to change the game or to demonstrate to players that he's in charge and he's not happy. Maybe he should take a page from the NHL coaches who bench goalkeepers and others to make a statement.  Today was a prime example.  The first half was as malaise as you can get. I have never watched a team for the last 50 odd years play at such a slow tempo, other than the local team playing walking football for the over 60's. It was pathetic what I had to witness today.  Every player in a blue shirt in front of the ball when we had it, was strolling around like it was a funeral.  Backwards, sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards sideways, even when we had free kicks in their half the ball was sent back to Kepa; how the f**k do you expect to score or even threatened your opponent.

Sterling, Cucurella, Azpi, Jorghi for starters should have been yanked well before half time together with serious consideration for Pulisic and Koulibaly...how any of these make the first team is astonishing, especially with all the young, energetic talent we have, is sat idly on the bench or running out for the development squad...why?  Did Potter not make the half time team talk, like 'Forest are going to come at us in the 2nd half, they are going to press and they are not going to sit back as they did in the first' Everyone of us watching could have told him that...  He should have at least yanked Sterling, Azpi (who was getting run ragged by Johnson).  And then having not made the changes, he could see what the f**k was happening; did he not notice Forest beating down the door and the result was staring him in the face that they would eventually score because our defence and midfield were being overrun, out muscled and out worked...but he sat and did f**k all until it was far too late. 

I'm not sure how GP was selected or the Americans believe that he will turn out to be the manager that they think he is, because he's not.  He hasn't got the balls to call out the players who are not performing and drop them; he hasn't got the common sense to see what's happening in front of him and be proactive...and one thing he hasn't got that his predecessors over the last 20 years have is credentials and a win at all cost mentality.  Jose and others would have yanked a player or two in the first half, let alone let it go on as it did in the 2nd half.   This is about as turgid as football gets with this team.  With the money that Clearlake have coughed up and continue to cough up if Potter doesn't deliver something this year, then surely the door will be hitting his backside on his way out. 

Rant over....I'm only expecting a mid-table finish at best if GP remains..

At this rate we will get embarrassed in the ucl, despite the performances against Milan (which people have pointed out came against a heavily injury hit AC not the same team that won the league last season) I don't see us getting past Dortmund on current form. 

A tie that on paper looked very winnable a couple months ago, now we're sleep walking into a last 16 elimination. Early days, but I'm starting to really worry about a repeat of the 15/16 season. Finishing mid table, no deep cup runs and underperforming stars