1 minute ago, LongtimerLurker said:

At this rate we will get embarrassed in the ucl, despite the performances against Milan (which people have pointed out came against a heavily injury hit AC not the same team that won the league last season) I don't see us getting past Dortmund on current form.

I mean, that's fair enough, but if we're going to apply that to asterisk the Milan results surely same applies to most of our recent results?

2 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

But it is becoming more and more obvious that the club have gone ar$e about face in doing all of this. 

Keep Tuchel in place, keep buying youngsters, put the backroom in place. Now we would be talking about Tuchels position if these had been the results and performances under him. The difference, if TT hadn't sorted this out (and I think he might have done), is that we would already have a structure in place and a "project" to promote to the right bloke.

Instead the club look like clowns sacking one of the best managers in the game straight after buying new players and then put a guy in who appears to be out of his depth whilst spending 5 months in trying to put the backroom together.

So amateurish. 

Don’t disagree with any of that. Even if Tuchel was here and we finished outside of the top 4, I’d still have not wanted him sacked. 

I’ve said a few times in this thread I wanted us to keep Tuchel. But if the board were insistent on a change they should have done it much sooner in the summer so that Potter could’ve had his own pre season and signed his own targets. That’s not Potters fault that the board acted so late to make that decision. I might be in the minority but I am cautiously optimistic that we will be better next season once Potter has had a proper pre season, and got one or two of his own signings. Even if that means stomaching a crap season this year, I do think we will start to improve from next season. If things are still bad at the start of 2024 then maybe it will be time for a change. 

I really want the club to get away from this cycle of changing managers every 18 months. And thought with new owners that finally we might see some stability in that regard. If the new owners pull the plug on “their” guy at the first signs of trouble, then we will never have that long term stability at this club. 

3 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

But it is becoming more and more obvious that the club have gone ar$e about face in doing all of this. 

Keep Tuchel in place, keep buying youngsters, put the backroom in place. Now we would be talking about Tuchels position if these had been the results and performances under him. The difference, if TT hadn't sorted this out (and I think he might have done), is that we would already have a structure in place and a "project" to promote to the right bloke.

Instead the club look like clowns sacking one of the best managers in the game straight after buying new players and then put a guy in who appears to be out of his depth whilst spending 5 months in trying to put the backroom together.

So amateurish. 

But if reports are to be believed that TT wasn't liking the vision of the new owners and they had little choice but to let him go. By all accounts they wanted him to continue until they sat down with him...while that was somewhat of a surprise to many, the bigger surprise was the appointment of Potter, an inexperienced manger who had won sweet FA, as opposed to an experienced manager with credentials, a proven winner, albeit that many have walked the hallowed grounds of Cobham over the previous 20 years.  I'm not sure at what point Clearlake will want to cut their losses, when we are flirting with relegation?  If this was the States where relegation doesn't exist I don't suppose they would care too much TBH, because the fan base wouldn't necessarily diminish, nor would the commercial side of the business, but this isn't the States so it will be worth keeping an eye on the rumour mill as our poor run of form and performances start to push us further down the table.

Even Potter said himself after the Bouremouth game his first season at previous clubs were sh1t, we just don't know how low is sh1t by his standard. He's a smart man, having seen all the managers before him, he probably knew an instant success will cost him the job in 12-18 months. Not even talking about Tuchel or Conte, look at Lampard got us the top 4 out of nothing, did not survive the next season because the 'expected' standard set by previous success. Imagine We got 9th this season, and 6th next season , Boehly be calling that improvement and keep Potter for another season at minimum. So Potter is in no hurry for instant improvement, he will take his time. There's a reason other big teams did not get him, he's still largely unproven at top level, and it showed at Chelsea. Yes, Arteta set an example for showing patience in managers, but first they haven't won the league yet, second there are more failed cases out there, thirdly this season nobody saw them coming and just happens other top teams all had their rough moments, in a way it's similar to the Leicester one season wonder. Next season will be completely different for challenging the league or competing for the top 4.

15 minutes ago, CFCCAN said:

But if reports are to be believed that TT wasn't liking the vision of the new owners and they had little choice but to let him go. By all accounts they wanted him to continue until they sat down with him...while that was somewhat of a surprise to many, the bigger surprise was the appointment of Potter, an inexperienced manger who had won sweet FA, as opposed to an experienced manager with credentials, a proven winner, albeit that many have walked the hallowed grounds of Cobham over the previous 20 years.  I'm not sure at what point Clearlake will want to cut their losses, when we are flirting with relegation?  If this was the States where relegation doesn't exist I don't suppose they would care too much TBH, because the fan base wouldn't necessarily diminish, nor would the commercial side of the business, but this isn't the States so it will be worth keeping an eye on the rumour mill as our poor run of form and performances start to push us further down the table.

I agree that the noise after was that they were incompatible but that kind of was my point. Boehly could have built the backroom without TT's input, which is what he wanted. Boehly could have watched it unfold and TT could have either got with the program or cooked his goose. Its moot now anyway, just seems to be bad decisions, one after the other.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

It can, for all the praise United and Ten Hag are getting they'll be right beside us if not below us without Casemiro. Ten Hag was looking like a Frank De Boer regen until the latter showed up.

Will Enzo and James alone turn this into title challengers? No, but they'll make a big difference (Kante added if we can somehow keep him fit in the run in).

James playing a full season + Enzo + Nkunku... Should be an automatic top 4 finish, anything less should mean a search for a new manager. Otherwise what's the point of signing new players, let alone some of the best possible, if not the best possible options on the market if they won't make any difference. Something just wouldn't add up.

I get that we won the last title after Conte's gimmick season but all managers after him managed to finish top 4 regardless of injuries or even the club having a transfer ban, Potter must get to work and show that he's made for greatness. There has to be some signs of his own quality as a manager that can be seen right now and not in 3 seasons time, after all we did spend and we signed high profile players this season, he can't act as if going to play an away match is just too difficult for us and he shouldn't act as if this club that gave him the best gig of his life didn't win the CL just some seasons ago.

There are mitigations for Potter such as the ridiculous injuries and squad imbalance - however we should be performing a lot better. The lack of fight and grit is massively worrying. 
 

Potter needs to start dropping some players and show them who’s boss. Simply being nice and encouraging to everyone all of the time doesn’t work. 

I think this quote from Kieron Dyer says a lot. His source is a Chelsea first teamer. 
 

“I’ve spoken to people who have had Tuchel as a coach and they’ve had Potter as a coach… obviously I’m not going to name names.

“But they’ve had [both managers] and you cannot compare the two. Knowledge of the game, tactics, the way they are.

“I also know people who have had Tuchel and then they’ve had other top, top coaches and they go, ‘Trust me, Tuchel is f***ing incredible.’”

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/chelsea-stars-not-sold-graham-230333429.html

 

Its not rose tinted, I do believe we would have had a lot of issues this season with Tuchel but I think we would have been more competitive and not in 9th. 

4 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Tottenham haven't spent half of what we have this year. Conte also took over a side in the Europa League, not a side that had finished top 4 2 seasons in a row and had been in 5 Cup finals over the past 18 months.

 

We're not Tottenham, our expectations shouldn't be the same as theirs. Even then, Tottenham are still ahead of us.

Tottenham have a fantastic front line, and before Haaland came, the best striker in the league. Not to mention Son, Richarlison, Kulevski. They have a very good team, even on paper they are better than arsenal who are top of the league. Tottenham have a top coach and are struggling. Tottenham have a better front line than we do. Their midfield, maybe on a similar level, and defence we probably beat them in that area because of Silva. At least they have the players to score goals, we simply don't that quality up top. 

Edited January 1, 20233 yr by enigma

3 hours ago, bisright1 said:

We have a sh*t squad. People go on about tuchel winning the champs league but we had Kante then and haven't signed anyone decent since. 

Potter needs time but more importantly the squad needs an overhaul that it's getting. I'm not even going to think about Potter until this time next year. 

It's going to take time regardless, especially given the competitiveness of the PL this season and going forward. We are no longer a top domestic side. We have to almost start from scratch again. 

4 hours ago, coco said:

A hot bath, a mug of hot chocolate, and a Chelsea game, sure fire remedy for insomnia.

This is why I’ve stopped watching on the sofa and started watching in bed. My neck is thankful. 

8 minutes ago, JM7 said:

I think this quote from Kieron Dyer says a lot. His source is a Chelsea first teamer. 
 

“I’ve spoken to people who have had Tuchel as a coach and they’ve had Potter as a coach… obviously I’m not going to name names.

“But they’ve had [both managers] and you cannot compare the two. Knowledge of the game, tactics, the way they are.

“I also know people who have had Tuchel and then they’ve had other top, top coaches and they go, ‘Trust me, Tuchel is f***ing incredible.’”

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/chelsea-stars-not-sold-graham-230333429.html

 

Its not rose tinted, I do believe we would have had a lot of issues this season with Tuchel but I think we would have been more competitive and not in 9th. 

Maybe. I never wanted Tuchel to go, but now he's gone and the board are focused on Potter, he deserves support at the very least. But as soon as he came to Chelsea, there is a group of chelsea fans who've done nothing but say he's inferior, not good enough, why did we get rid of Tuchel etc. The guy seemed doom to fail before he started from a fair few fans. But we also had poor results under Tuchel at the start of the season. It started in preseason being thrashed 4-0 by Arsenal. I've no idea how it would have gone for us if Tuchel had stayed, but it's clear the new owners and Tuchel didn't see eye to eye on the operating of the club. Maybe it was Boehly's lack of knowledge of transfers etc that he needed some guidance. Not much he could do as he didn't have time to put a proper board together. I have no idea what the issue was exactly though. 

The truth is, £300m has been spent, but not spent wisely. That money doesn't represent the lack of quality. Sterling was looking good at City because of the system he was in. Koulibaly, not gonna lie he's been more underwhelming than I expected, but the fee was reasonable at the time. Cucurella, we overpaid for. Fofana was bought for his potential and unfortunately he's been injured. The only decent signing so far seems to be Zakaria, who is actually pretty competent. 

39 minutes ago, JM7 said:

I think this quote from Kieron Dyer says a lot. His source is a Chelsea first teamer. 
 

“I’ve spoken to people who have had Tuchel as a coach and they’ve had Potter as a coach… obviously I’m not going to name names.

“But they’ve had [both managers] and you cannot compare the two. Knowledge of the game, tactics, the way they are.

“I also know people who have had Tuchel and then they’ve had other top, top coaches and they go, ‘Trust me, Tuchel is f***ing incredible.’”

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/chelsea-stars-not-sold-graham-230333429.html

 

Its not rose tinted, I do believe we would have had a lot of issues this season with Tuchel but I think we would have been more competitive and not in 9th. 

Tuchels football was still sh*t, it just happens somehow Potter has found another level.

52 minutes ago, JM7 said:

I think this quote from Kieron Dyer says a lot. His source is a Chelsea first teamer. 
 

“I’ve spoken to people who have had Tuchel as a coach and they’ve had Potter as a coach… obviously I’m not going to name names.

“But they’ve had [both managers] and you cannot compare the two. Knowledge of the game, tactics, the way they are.

“I also know people who have had Tuchel and then they’ve had other top, top coaches and they go, ‘Trust me, Tuchel is f***ing incredible.’”

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/chelsea-stars-not-sold-graham-230333429.html

 

Its not rose tinted, I do believe we would have had a lot of issues this season with Tuchel but I think we would have been more competitive and not in 9th. 

I saw this when he said it and from a fan looking on from the outside just seeing how both managers are it’s believable but will never know until someone within the playing staff comes out and say it.

2 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

But it is becoming more and more obvious that the club have gone ar$e about face in doing all of this. 

Keep Tuchel in place, keep buying youngsters, put the backroom in place. Now we would be talking about Tuchels position if these had been the results and performances under him. The difference, if TT hadn't sorted this out (and I think he might have done), is that we would already have a structure in place and a "project" to promote to the right bloke.

Instead the club look like clowns sacking one of the best managers in the game straight after buying new players and then put a guy in who appears to be out of his depth whilst spending 5 months in trying to put the backroom together.

So amateurish. 

Yes. It beggars belief. I haven’t been an alarmist member of this forum in the past. Was intermittently really optimistic. I never even complained about Sarri (which is starting to look like a golden age).
 

This is a full-blown crisis, people. We have the wrong owners. And these wrong owners hired the wrong manager. That’s pretty bad. 
 

I think a lot of members aren’t seeing the forest for the trees, and are carrying on as if it’s business as usual- talking about the owners’ “vision” for the club, which players we need in which areas etc. I’m not criticising those of you who do. I hope you are right and I’m wrong. Because the view I’m forming is that nothing good is going to happen at Chelsea until this manager and these owners are gone. 

5 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Think the media hyped him out to be way better than he actually is, and Boehly fell for it.

It's Sarri and AVB mkiii

4 hours ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Not in terms of previous skill and achievements obviously they both come with a lot of pedigree, but the point still stands they both still needed way more time than most  are willing to give Potter to get their team playing, despite being “elite” level coaches. It’s a hypothetical but if Klopp or Pep had the first full season here that they had at Liverpool and City (8th and 4th) then our fans and owner at the time would’ve deemed that not good enough and sacked them before letting them build something. 

A closer comparison in terms of skill would probably be Potter and Arteta. Arsenal’s patience seems to be paying off with him as they’re 7pts clear and playing the best football they have for a long time. 
 

The wider point is how can we allow any manager to build something if we want to continue chopping and changing as soon as things stop going our way? 
 

Klopp and Pep both showed a change in the way their team was playing. They might not have gotten every result going their way but the way they changed and motivated the team was there. 

Klopp made Liverpool a middling Rodgers team to a gung ho attack attack attack team and Pep was experimenting a ton until he got it right. 

None of this can be applied to this Chelsea team. There is no uplifting in spirit or morale, there is no change in approach to the game and the only one whose career is brought back from the brink is Kepa.  

 

3 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

But it is becoming more and more obvious that the club have gone ar$e about face in doing all of this. 

Keep Tuchel in place, keep buying youngsters, put the backroom in place. Now we would be talking about Tuchels position if these had been the results and performances under him. The difference, if TT hadn't sorted this out (and I think he might have done), is that we would already have a structure in place and a "project" to promote to the right bloke.

Instead the club look like clowns sacking one of the best managers in the game straight after buying new players and then put a guy in who appears to be out of his depth whilst spending 5 months in trying to put the backroom together.

So amateurish. 

Post of the year! Btw HNY to you all!

Agree on all of this. Anyway Boehly again exposing his complete lack of football knowledge. 

 

I refuse to believe a manager (Potter) that has beaten the who is who of top coaches is somehow a sh*t tactician like Dyer says some bloke he knows claims. There are far more variables than it just being so black and white. You also don't have media and fans alike raving about his ability as a coach if there wasn't something about him. Not to mention his coaching spell with Ostersunds. For a  simple game, I do often wonder why football gets complicated all the time. I doubt that there's some hidden tactics out there that only certain coaches know that others don't. 

10 minutes ago, Deino said:

Klopp and Pep both showed a change in the way their team was playing. They might not have gotten every result going their way but the way they changed and motivated the team was there. 

Klopp made Liverpool a middling Rodgers team to a gung ho attack attack attack team and Pep was experimenting a ton until he got it right. 

None of this can be applied to this Chelsea team. There is no uplifting in spirit or morale, there is no change in approach to the game and the only one whose career is brought back from the brink is Kepa.  

 

There is clear change in how we play the game without changing in personnel 

1 hour ago, Dean said:

Yes. It beggars belief. I haven’t been an alarmist member of this forum in the past. Was intermittently really optimistic. I never even complained about Sarri (which is starting to look like a golden age).
 

This is a full-blown crisis, people. We have the wrong owners. And these wrong owners hired the wrong manager. That’s pretty bad. 
 

I think a lot of members aren’t seeing the forest for the trees, and are carrying on as if it’s business as usual- talking about the owners’ “vision” for the club, which players we need in which areas etc. I’m not criticising those of you who do. I hope you are right and I’m wrong. Because the view I’m forming is that nothing good is going to happen at Chelsea until this manager and these owners are gone. 

Oh Dean, Dean, Dean! All I can say is...

3 hours ago, enigma said:

It's going to take time regardless, especially given the competitiveness of the PL this season and going forward. We are no longer a top domestic side. We have to almost start from scratch again. 

Agree if that's the plan, but if it is the plan why is he playing the old timers and not the kids? Or at the very least play the kids once we reach 40+ points, the season is gone anyway apart from the CL and I doubt that will last too much longer if our present form continues.

The pining for TT on here isn't surprising, the grass always appears greener....but we need to be honest. The rot had set in under TT. We had been awful for months, long before the start of this season. 

The slow and stagnant play was well and truly there under TT. 

The lack of creativity and chances was well and truly there under TT.

The leaky defence we have currently was already there under TT.

The lack of energy, sideways rubbish, lack of intensity - all in the name of "control" was a key bit of TTs tactics. 

As I have said before, time will tell if potter is the answer - Personally I suspect not. But the revisionism around TT has to stop. We were awful under him for a long time. TT stabilised the club after frank, sorted the defence for a time (st the expense of attack) and won us the champions league - for which we should all be grateful. But by season 2 he appeared not to know how to stop the rot and didn't want to play a bigger role under the new club system. It was the right call to sack.

9 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

The pining for TT on here isn't surprising, the grass always appears greener....but we need to be honest. The rot had set in under TT. We had been awful for months, long before the start of this season. 

The slow and stagnant play was well and truly there under TT. 

The lack of creativity and chances was well and truly there under TT.

The leaky defence we have currently was already there under TT.

The lack of energy, sideways rubbish, lack of intensity - all in the name of "control" was a key bit of TTs tactics. 

As I have said before, time will tell if potter is the answer - Personally I suspect not. But the revisionism around TT has to stop. We were awful under him for a long time. TT stabilised the club after frank, sorted the defence for a time (st the expense of attack) and won us the champions league - for which we should all be grateful. But by season 2 he appeared not to know how to stop the rot and didn't want to play a bigger role under the new club system. It was the right call to sack.

Right call? Perhaps, I suspect so but cannot say for sure.

Right timing? Absolutely not, it has played a part in our appalling season to date. Having him involved so much in the window that we don't sign a midfielder until a last minute loan, buy Auba and turn down Kounde only to sack him 10 minutes later was sheer lunacy.

 

I agree with your other points though.