Call me cynical, but Potter is very good at deflection. Forget about sh*t performance on the pitch, lets all talk about worst pre-season 8 month ago, about new players, about death threats, about his deteriorating mental health, etc. I do not want to hear banalities and excuses from our manager. I want to know what he is currently doing to win games, and I find it utterly disrespectful from Potter to feed the fans with drivel and nonsense for the past 4 months. 

Popular definition of deflection: it happens when we redirect the focus, blame, or criticism away from ourselves in an attempt to preserve our self-image and avoid dealing with negative consequences. It can be used as a reactive coping mechanism to avoid feelings of guilt and shame, or as a narcissistic abuse tactic to avoid accountability.

10 hours ago, evissy said:

But he didn't jump from Norway or something weird like that, he came from a club that was above Chelsea in the Prem table

Very cheeky and embarrassing thing to say. Take a hard look into your mirror. 6 games into the season, so September. Yeah winners are crowned in September. 

 

13 hours ago, Bebe1980 said:

Sorry it was a bit cryptic...

This is actually incorrect use of this meme curve, how you’re supposed to do it is like with politics, so for example.. far left and far right are the same, just stupid people and smart people having the same ideology just different logical conclusions as to why they think that. So, the correct version would be the centre guy to be in the ‘trust the process’ camp.

The left would be ‘Potter out’, middle idiot of ‘trust the process’ and the far right ‘Potter out’ but in a more articulate intelligent way such as analysing his tactics etc.

For example:

 

 

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by Term_X

I'm one of the ones that thought Potter's lack of a track record reduced his odds of succeeding at Chelsea. I said that the day after I read of the appointment and I still say it. The fact that Brighton was above Chelsea 6 games into the season means nothing. Are Brighton going to win anything? Are they even going to play in Europe next season?

That is not the standard at all. 

Potter is clearly intelligent and like anyone else who is travelling poorly he starts talking about the reasons whereas winners don't talk they just point to the scoreboard. No shame in deflecting, probably lots of truth in what he says. I'm not really convinced all the new players are ready to start in the league regularly. But that's not my job. Its his.
 

Equally anyone that says Ten Haag hasn't improved ManU is having a lend of you. They are massively better in just about every way. Not perfect not even premier league winning but just better and actually pretty good (pains me to say it) and competitive in the entire league and as they just showed in Europe. You can say they had all the other ingredients, just needed the right coach and I would have sympathy with that and I would agree that Ten Haag might have found it tougher at Chelsea but I would still back him to be further ahead. After years of doing it wrong, United did the selection process for Ten Haag properly. They developed a shortlist, interviewed candidates and made a considered selection. That's how you do big appointments where $billions of capital value are on the line.

Potter may yet succeed but it's unquestionable that so far he hasn't and his track record is no defence. Everything depends on your view of the progress he is making despite the lack of goals and the lack of points. But actually the only view that really counts now is that of the players. If they believe in the project it may succeed, if they have lost faith it cannot succeed.

13 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Actually quite brave of Potter to point the finger at pre-season, because for sure a lot of the itinerary was down to the new owners, ... no way anyone in Roman's administration would have set up a visit to the LA Dodgers stadium for example. That was 100% on Boehly  for sure 🙂 . 

 

You're joking. Under the Roman administration we would have travelled to PLAY the LA Dodgers in pre-season!!

8 hours ago, abister1 said:

Very cheeky and embarrassing thing to say. Take a hard look into your mirror. 6 games into the season, so September. Yeah winners are crowned in September. 

 

Thank you for missing the point.

Under Roman we always knew the cycle is very short. Even JM who is one of the all time greats managed to hold onto his job for 3 seasons. Carlo who is probably best of all time managed two seasons. 

If we want to break this cycle we need to lay trust on a manager. At this very moment it looks like that man is Graham Potter. 

Why we should break the cycle is to look at what Liverpool and City have done. They have a foundation that is strong. We have never had that. We are always on shaky grounds and when something powerful enough tips it over we start the cycle again. 

Personally I am willing to see us lose for a couple of seasons to build something. 

Why I feel we won't see us ending up like MU or Arsenal (struggling for years) is because we have an owner who likes to spend on the team and knowledge of sports. MU or Arsenal never had both ingredients. Their base for succeeding is lot worse IMO. 

IF our new staff is as talented as they are touted along with these new young players we should be pretty good in future years.

I personally trust Potter is good enough to build the foundation. If he is not a man who brings us titles so be it, we will look elsewhere but we need to be patient and see us evolve as a club and as a team.

On 23/02/2023 at 23:16, Sexyfootball said:

And Twitter strikes again ... this is completely wrong info LOL ... it's pretty much essential to fact check absolutely everything on that platform 🙂 

Boehly's first season as Dodgers co-owner, (2012) they finished 2nd in the National League West.  2013 to 2020 inclusive they were 1st. 2021 2nd, and 2022  back to 1st. In the Play Offs they were runners up in World Series in 2017 and 2018, and won it in 2020. They retained the existing Field Manager Don Mattingly (="Tuchel") when they came on board and he won three straight division titles (2013, 2014, 2015), before Boehly hired a new guy Dave Roberts (="Potter") from 2016 onwards.

 

 

You have no idea how american sports work. Just because they finished 2nd in their division means f**kall, Dodgers was indeed 13th. 

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by bacik

On 25/02/2023 at 08:49, CFCCAN said:

I mainly deal with crime stats - without going into the weeds simply looking at the table that you posted (if that's what you are referring to) to my mind a lot of that data is not relevant to today's game so you are comparing apples to oranges, so you'd have to put an * in some cases. The game has changed, especially in terms of the offside rule and the use of VAR, which of course has only been introduced for a couple of seasons, so trying to compare GF for instance for Potter first 25 games against say Docherty in 66 is nonsense, or Williams in 1905 is pointless, same goes for GA in my opinion especially since the introduction of VAR.  Those days you had a linesman with a flag, if he missed the offside the goal stood; any goal today is checked by VAR and can be ruled out by a whisker of offside. I would be comparing era to era perhaps. I'd also want to be comparing tactics and formations - i.e. what was his % win rate etc when playing 433 over 532, then compare that for example against the the other CFC managers of the same era who played the same formation. Does weather play a factor? Does travel play a factor? players available play a factor and so on.  There are so many variables and sets of data you can look at an analyze, that's why teams here in NA have a complete data analysis team to drill down to fine details, which we know Boehly and his team are doing.  NA sports have been doing it since at least 2003 with the infamous 'Moneyball' Red Sox team and then it became widely used a few years later, although they were using a form of analytics even earlier especially in NFL.  Even football teams in the England and Europe were using data sets early on players in particular.

On the surface, we know that Boehly looked at Potter's stats including no doubt his tactics, formations and xg, despite Brighton not scoring a lot of goals and I suspect that Boehly would have been looking at players that could turn that xg into actual goals and turn those Brighton draws and close margin losses into wins with the expected conversion rate.  Problem is it isn't working at the moment.  Based on what we've heard, this is a long term project and Boehly has set fire to the Bridge and basically tore the heart out of everything to start afresh...a new company start up if you like and there are going to be bumps along the way, but I am sure that the start that Potter has had maybe has Boehly 2nd guessing his stats. But would Potters stats be any different if he had walked into a healthy squad and not one decimated by injuries, regardless of the new signings since he came in.  My guess is they probably would be better than what we are seeing.  The injuries together with new players sure isn't making life easy for him, again all these are factors to consider when looking at some of the data sets.  Are we passing the ball more forward than we did under TT or Conte..probably, so the chance creation will naturally increase. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Potter as I think despite his stats which Boehly looked at, in my mind he's not got the experience to for a club this size. This is being thrown in at the deep end and he'd better show signs of improvement now more or less everyone is fit.  But you never know with Boehly, unless we are flirting with relegation he will rely on his stats and data to eventually show that Potter was the right choice....even if it takes a few years.

Sorry its a bit long winded...

Well written post but one thing is that Boehly didn't sack Tuchel because the xG and win percentage was poor. He was sacked because he simply wanted to coach the players he got and didn't want to be part of the project(whatever that means anyway). That's why I believe the statistics weren't even considered when they picked Potter for the job. They didn't want an elite manager with elite statistics. They simply wanted someone who would cooperate with the way they wanted to run the club.

In baseball teams usually take risks and sign a few players cheaply who haven't had much success but can be developed into very good players by changes in technique, assigning different roles, etc. But the top teams sign managers who have a proven track record and rarely take such risk in managerial positions. But in our case Boehly has signed an unproven manager with no special statistics and gave him a huge contract. It seems Boehly signed Potter based on the feedback he received when he asked around for an obedient chap whose team were playing decent football. 

27 minutes ago, bacik said:

You have no idea how american sports work. Just because they finished 2nd in their division means f**kall, Dodgers was indeed 13th. 

Up to and including 2022, each team didn't play all the other teams, so ranking them all this way is pretty pointless. You can do it, of course, but similarly I could list all the 92 clubs in the Premier League, Championship, League One and League Two and sort them by their Points Per Game, and that would be about as meaningless as that table. Right now Chelsea would be 45th best team in the country, and although we all know things are bad, they aren't quite THAT bad LOL 🙂 

Welcome to the forum btw.

12 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Up to and including 2022, each team didn't play all the other teams, so ranking them all this way is pretty pointless. You can do it, of course, but similarly I could list all the 92 clubs in the Premier League, Championship, League One and League Two and sort them by their Points Per Game, and that would be about as meaningless as that table. Right now Chelsea would be 45th best team in the country, and although we all know things are bad, they aren't quite THAT bad LOL 🙂 

Welcome to the forum btw.

I mean you really don't understand how American sports work so you should stop trying 

2 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

I mean you really don't understand how American sports work so you should stop trying 

It's quite easy to use Google to find out how MLB is structured, how the fixture scheduling works, and how they track the standings, and how that relates to qualification for the Play Offs, and how that in turn leads to the World Series, the ultimate goal.

How you can join in arguing against the original screen shot I inserted of the actual LA Dodgers historical performance I have no idea.

Still, you can carry on believing all the mis-information on Twitter if that is what floats your boat.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

It's quite easy to use Google to find out how MLB is structured, how the fixture scheduling works, and how they track the standings, and how that relates to qualification for the Play Offs, and how that in turn leads to the World Series, the ultimate goal.

How you can join in arguing against the original screen shot I inserted of the actual LA Dodgers historical performance I have no idea.

Still, you can carry on believing all the mis-information on Twitter if that is what floats your boat.

 

 

I don't really pay any notice of what Boehly did at the dodgers, but I know enough about MLB to know you can't relate it to ranking all 92 league clubs without loudly stating that you don't know what you're talking about. 

41 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

I don't really pay any notice of what Boehly did at the dodgers, but I know enough about MLB to know you can't relate it to ranking all 92 league clubs without loudly stating that you don't know what you're talking about. 

No sh*t LOL. That is the whole point !!! Ranking all the MLB sides like in that table that shows LA Dodgers were "13th" in 2012 is as pointless as ranking all our 92 league clubs. In 2012 they played almost half of their 162 fixtures against the other 4 sides in their division. 10 of the 30 sides in the overall "ranking list" they didn't even play once LOL. 

 

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by Sexyfootball

3 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

No sh*t LOL. That is the whole point !!! Ranking all the MLB sides like in that table that shows LA Dodgers were "13th" in 2012 is as pointless as ranking all our 92 league clubs. In 2012 they played almost half of their 162 fixtures against the other 4 sides in their division. 11 of the 30 sides in the overall "ranking list" they didn't even play once LOL. 

 

I don't really know anything about this (I have learned) but it doesn't take away the fact Dodgers were 13th. 

You have to be a special kind of stupid to send deaths threats to someone over a game of football, how pathetic and sad.

Same goes for the idiots who send racist, sexist  and homophobic abuse!!!

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by El regreso

11 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

No sh*t LOL. That is the whole point !!! Ranking all the MLB sides like in that table that shows LA Dodgers were "13th" in 2012 is as pointless as ranking all our 92 league clubs. In 2012 they played almost half of their 162 fixtures against the other 4 sides in their division. 11 of the 30 sides in the overall "ranking list" they didn't even play once LOL. 

 

No, what I'm saying is it's nothing like ranking all 92 clubs. The point you're making just shows you know nothing about American sports. 

3 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

No, what I'm saying is it's nothing like ranking all 92 clubs. The point you're making just shows you know nothing about American sports. 

If you insist on doubling down then let's leave it at that then LOL

37 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

If you insist on doubling down then let's leave it at that then LOL

I'm not "doubling down".

Major league baseball is one major league. Its made up of 30 teams. 

Those teams are divided up into two smaller leagues and then smaller divisions of 5

What matters ultimately, is how good you are in comparison to the 30, not the 5 in your division. As proven by the season when the dodgers won an insane amount of games, qualified for post season, but finished second in their division. 

Winning games consistently is what matters, that's what all the data nerds in baseball drive towards. It's what moneyball was all about, get the right players to win games.

Whilst you don't play EVERY other team, you do play a lot of them, and the intention in the schedule is to make the fixtures as balanced as possible.

So the fact that the dodgers were crap before Boehly came in, and then have been consistently good since then, and have some of the most effective winning records in the last few years, is not Twitter lies. It's just a fact that Boehly has invested in the dodgers and made them successful.

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by bisright1

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

I'm not "doubling down".

Major league baseball is one major league. Its made up of 30 teams. 

Those teams are divided up into two smaller leagues and then smaller divisions of 5

What matters ultimately, is how good you are in comparison to the 30, not the 5 in your division. As proven by the season when the dodgers won an insane amount of games, qualified for post season, but finished second in their division. 

Winning games consistently is what matters, that's what all the data nerds in baseball drive towards. It's what moneyball was all about, get the right players to win games.

Whilst you don't play EVERY other team, you do play a lot of them, and the intention in the schedule is to make the fixtures as balanced as possible.

So the fact that the dodgers were crap before Boehly came in, and then have been consistently good since then, and have some of the most effective winning records in the last few years, is not Twitter lies. It's just a fact that Boehly has invested in the dodgers and made them successful.

Exactly, like I said, he knows nothing about american sports. Being 2nd in your division means absolutely nothing, thats like praising Winnipeg for being 2nd in their NHL division, when in reality they might not even make the playoffs... Division is just made up of teams based on geographic location. 

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by bacik

By far the worst manager in the clubs history.

By far the worst manager in the league.

By far the manager that has had the most excuses.

By far the manager who has had too much undeserved time at this club.

Forget about replacements.

Even if we don't appoint a manager Potter has to go today.

Get this man the f**k out of this club.

Havertz still on the pitch 😂

By far the worst manager we've had this century, he has to go now