4 hours ago, evissy said:

A) Potter was identified as a good option. We hired him for 5 years. If you hire him for 5 years you have an idea of letting him build things. This is something completely opposite of Roman era. In Roman era the pressure on manager was so massive the tenures usually ended with tears...and some trophies along the way.

B) This season apart from CL is effectively over. Why would Boehly sack Potter now? Fans want to see wins naturally but for the good of the club it is best to let him work with the team and improve. Changing a man right now the cycle starts from the beginning. Every info from inside the club (reliable or not) says Potter is well regarded as a man at least. That tells me players want to work and improve. When things went like this with Jose for example, the environment for working turned into a nightmare where he himself basically fired himself (untenable). This happened with Conte and Tuchel as well in some extent at least.

C) Will long term planning work out so we are top of the table? Who knows? Is it more sustainable than Roman's model of hiring and firing... probably. Do we want sustainable model or something out of Real Madrid's playbook?... I honestly don't know...

D) City landed a manager that had brilliant history and it all worked out brilliantly. Same happened with Liverpool. Our appointment was very much different. We wanted a manager who had no such pedigree but had shown he is improving players and teams. In line with that we just signed 15 or so 20 year old players. 

E) what the future brings us I don't know but I am personally willing to have patience with the decisions. I want to align my expectations with club expectations...

Thats my thinking exactly. I don't see Potter getting fired any time soon unless we are threatened with relegation. 

17 hours ago, evissy said:

I personally don't understand the sentiment where fans are given so much power... I personally hope they don't flinch. It is their project. If they believe the project they should go on with it even if fans can't take losses.

Especially reading the absolute horror in this forum...

 

 

I agree. This thread is a total sh*t show.

https://fb.watch/iUuR7-lwTH/

2 hours ago, TimesUpPotter said:

You have no rationale or logic.  Not surprising because you keep posting like you're in an alternate reality and making completely wrong statements like Potter's results with us are no worse than Tuchels.

You're focusing on completely the wrong thing because you're focusing on Tuchel not Potter.   Obviously Tuchel should have stayed but if Boehly absolutely couldn't work with him and he had to go for none football reasons  you don't fire him days after a transfer window in which you've signed players specifically at his request.

And if you do fire him you replace him with a manager with a similar record of success or at least a young upcoming manager showing great potential.  If Boehly had waited a bit longer until we had a director of football we'd have likely done just that.

What you don't do is replace him with a manager that has one of the worst records out of every PL manager to ever manage over 100 games and has never won a cup match against a PL team in 3 years just because he's the media flavour of the month who really shouldn't have been on a 20 or 30 man shortlist because there were simply so many better managers avaliable.

You are deluded and just making sh*t up. I have not said "potters results with us are no worse than tuchels" - not once - so stop making up nonsense.

I have said, multiple times, that I am not convinced Potter is the answer for us. And I have also said, again multiple times, that we were playing rubbish, boring, backwards and unprogressive football under tuchel - and that the style of play (note - NOT results) under potter has been no worse than what we put up with towards the end of tuchels reign. I stand by both those comments. 

But as with everything - performance is only 1 part. The club was rotten, and it will take a long time to turn it around. But, fans like you aside, we feel like that club, squad and morale is in a better place now than it was.

Of course, with a user name like you have, I don't expect you to understand nuance. But not everything is so binary. You would do good to remember that.

On 18/02/2023 at 18:41, nonotnowjim said:

Potter hasn't improved either the style or results. But it hasn't gotten worse

This you?

Not everyone's memory is as poor as your own but you were quite rightly ripped to shreds a couple of pages back because you did infact did claim results were no worse under Potter than Tuchel

Page 220 if anyone wishes to look.

Edited February 24, 20233 yr by TimesUpPotter

1 minute ago, TimesUpPotter said:

This you?

He`s literally just said the exact same thing you muppet, all you've done is prove him right. 

Thats as bad an attempt at a "gotcha" as Ive ever seen.

Quote

And I have also said, again multiple times, that we were playing rubbish, boring, backwards and unprogressive football under tuchel - and that the style of play (note - NOT results) under potter has been no worse than what we put up with towards the end of tuchels reign. I stand by both those comments. 

 

So after 4 months £600m spent and losing to bottom of the table Southampton the brief was to dig blame on preseason and Tuchel. Comedy gold.

 

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

You are deluded and just making sh*t up. I have not said "potters results with us are no worse than tuchels" - not once - so stop making up nonsense.

I have said, multiple times, that I am not convinced Potter is the answer for us. And I have also said, again multiple times, that we were playing rubbish, boring, backwards and unprogressive football under tuchel - and that the style of play (note - NOT results) under potter has been no worse than what we put up with towards the end of tuchels reign. I stand by both those comments. 

But as with everything - performance is only 1 part. The club was rotten, and it will take a long time to turn it around. But, fans like you aside, we feel like that club, squad and morale is in a better place now than it was.

Of course, with a user name like you have, I don't expect you to understand nuance. But not everything is so binary. You would do good to remember that.

Actually yes, you did say the results haven't gotten worse

On 18/02/2023 at 18:41, nonotnowjim said:

Tuchel had us playing some awful stuff.

Potter hasn't improved either the style or results. But it hasn't gotten worse

Edited February 24, 20233 yr by Victor90

17 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Look at what Ten Hag has done with United in just 6 months, they were in much worse shape than us last season, Potter is an absolute fraud

Just in case someone chimes in with the obligatory “but.. but.. what about Arteta” line

The United squad of players is of a similar level to us, Arsenal however were a mess in comparison and still won the FA Cup, Arteta had to to a lot of work with Edu behind the scenes to dismantle the squad. Even when he started to build the team and results were still off at least the fans could see a clear system and direction, his tutelage under Guardiola clearly evident; Potter’s tutelage came from a bloke that worked part-time in Ikea. 

22 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

 

Actually yes, you did say the results haven't gotten worse

If you take league games this season we have lost exactly the same ratio of games under Potter as we did under Tuchel. So far we lost 2 out of 6 under Tuchel, and 6 from 18 under Potter. We have drawn more games under Potter though.

 

turn your phone upside down we are winning something 😂

13 minutes ago, Term_X said:

Just in case someone chimes in with the obligatory “but.. but.. what about Arteta” line

The United squad of players is of a similar level to us, Arsenal however were a mess in comparison and still won the FA Cup, Arteta had to to a lot of work with Edu behind the scenes to dismantle the squad. Even when he started to build the team and results were still off at least the fans could see a clear system and direction, his tutelage under Guardiola clearly evident; Potter’s tutelage came from a bloke that worked part-time in Ikea. 

I'd also add that although the preseason blame is understandable, this isn't a Sarri coming in to replace Conte managerial change where Sarri had the task change the whole identity of how we play. Tuchel and Potter are very similar managers with similar tactics and philosophy of the game. The transition should of almost been immediate (which we kind of saw at the beginning) but this capitulation of form and performances with little to no direction in how we play is inexcusable and its winding me up Potter continues to point fingers elsewhere. 

Edited February 24, 20233 yr by Sconnie Blue

10 minutes ago, forbzy said:

If you take league games this season we have lost exactly the same ratio of games under Potter as we did under Tuchel. So far we lost 2 out of 6 under Tuchel, and 6 from 18 under Potter. We have drawn more games under Potter though.

Nicely done ! 

As a follow up, I also worked out that our points per game was 1.67 for Tuchel's 6 games, but only 1.24 in the 17 games under Potter ... 

It's all still good though as 1.24 is not worse than 1.67  🙂 

17 hours ago, Argo said:

 

 

I don't buy that for a second. That was clearly a reactional post after going 1-0 down last night, they improved a lot in the 2nd half and it got them the win, something they never would have done last season. Their aggression, the speed of their play, it's a lot better than it ever was under Solskjaer. Performances are still a bit up and down, which is to be expected, but they are a lot better than they were last season. Rashford actually looks like a player now, Maguire is out, they have two good CB's and even the likes of Fred are pulling out decent performances now and again. Anybody that thinks this United are only a bit better because of Casemiro is talking rubbish. If it was as simple as that, then we would easily be top 4 because of Silva. Ten Haag has improved them and they continue to improve as the season is going on. Even when they aren't performing at their best, they are still getting results.

Edited February 24, 20233 yr by Scott Harris

8 hours ago, evissy said:

A) Potter was identified as a good option. We hired him for 5 years. If you hire him for 5 years you have an idea of letting him build things. This is something completely opposite of Roman era. In Roman era the pressure on manager was so massive the tenures usually ended with tears...and some trophies along the way.

B) This season apart from CL is effectively over. Why would Boehly sack Potter now? Fans want to see wins naturally but for the good of the club it is best to let him work with the team and improve. Changing a man right now the cycle starts from the beginning. Every info from inside the club (reliable or not) says Potter is well regarded as a man at least. That tells me players want to work and improve. When things went like this with Jose for example, the environment for working turned into a nightmare where he himself basically fired himself (untenable). This happened with Conte and Tuchel as well in some extent at least.

C) Will long term planning work out so we are top of the table? Who knows? Is it more sustainable than Roman's model of hiring and firing... probably. Do we want sustainable model or something out of Real Madrid's playbook?... I honestly don't know...

D) City landed a manager that had brilliant history and it all worked out brilliantly. Same happened with Liverpool. Our appointment was very much different. We wanted a manager who had no such pedigree but had shown he is improving players and teams. In line with that we just signed 15 or so 20 year old players. 

E) what the future brings us I don't know but I am personally willing to have patience with the decisions. I want to align my expectations with club expectations...

A) Who identified him and using what data? I have seen no data or sources which suggest he is chelsea level. Its like Boehly wanted a yes man after Tuchel and Potter was in 4th after 6 games. Potter isn't really building anything, I haven't seen a change similar to how Ten Hag has changed Manure. I guess time will tell. At least Tuchel was building towards something, even if it was 343 and not 443, and he had an imprint immediately, winning the UCL. He was a steal on a 18 month contract.

B) Dude we can get Europa League for our B team to play next year. We could've been in for a shout for CL spots but Potter is hopeless. We could've had a run in the CL but again Potter is hopeless. I think any competent manager can still get us Europa or conference next year and maybe even turn the Dortmund leg around.

C) It's usually a better idea to start winning and then start to think about long term stability. Madrid would never hire someone like Potter, all their managers are Tier 1 or Tier 2. Even if they sacked Ancelotti, they would probably turn to Tuchel.

D) I don't think it's the fact we didn't want it, it just wasn't availible. The best manager availible was the one we sacked.

E) If its the club expectations to languish in midtable for the next 5 years under Potter then I don't have patience for that. Every manager needs some time to convey his ideas, Potter has had that time. Ten Hag has come leaps and bounds in a relative amount of time.

So he’s now blaming tuchel pre season? 

17 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I don't buy that for a second. That was clearly a reactional post after going 1-0 down last night, they improved a lot in the 2nd half and it got them the win, something they never would have done last season. Their aggression, the speed of their play, it's a lot better than it ever was under Solskjaer. Performances are still a bit up and down, which is to be expected, but they are a lot better than they were last season. Rashford actually looks like a player now, Maguire is out, they have two good CB's and even the likes of Fred are pulling out decent performances now and again. Anybody that thinks this United are only a bit better because of Casemiro is talking rubbish. If it was as simple as that, then we would easily be top 4 because of Silva. Ten Haag has improved them and they continue to improve as the season is going on. Even when they aren't performing at their best, they are still getting results.

Man United got off to a ropey start under Ten Hag but they have improved for sure. They will likely win something this season. That being said expectations will also grow with that success and Ten Hag will have to see continued improvements or the fans will no doubt be quick to turn on him. Lets not forget they won 2 trophies in Jose's first season and that went sour pretty quickly the following season.

6 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Lets not forget they won 2 trophies in Jose's first season and that went sour pretty quickly the following season.

ten Hag's football is pretty sustainable. 

8 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Man United got off to a ropey start under Ten Hag but they have improved for sure. They will likely win something this season. That being said expectations will also grow with that success and Ten Hag will have to see continued improvements or the fans will no doubt be quick to turn on him. Lets not forget they won 2 trophies in Jose's first season and that went sour pretty quickly the following season.

It's almost as if when you do well and win things the standards are raised and people have high expectations. United fans can rightfully expect Ten Hag to get United back into the title contention next season given what he's done so far in his first season.

Whereas come next season we'll still be saying "it's a transition period", "the club has just been bought, it takes time", "we may as well let him see it out for the remainder of the season". 

1 minute ago, Victor90 said:

Whereas come next season we'll still be saying "it's a transition period", "the club has just been bought, it takes time", "we may as well let him see it out for the remainder of the season". 

Thankfully that won't be the case. Next season we need to finish Top 4 at a minimum. 

If by now and the end of this season we still see no improvement in the team, Potter will go. 

1 minute ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Thankfully that won't be the case. Next season we need to finish Top 4 at a minimum. 

If by now and the end of this season we still see no improvement in the team, Potter will go. 

I hand on heart believe he will get another free pass next season with all the nonsense excuses I've heard from the Board. 

Hopefully, I'm wrong, but they gambled big on Potter, and I think they will be willing to play the long game with him unfortunately. 

I can see this club going through a banter era like Liverpool, United, and Arsenal had. 

3 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

I hand on heart believe he will get another free pass next season with all the nonsense excuses I've heard from the Board. 

Hopefully, I'm wrong, but they gambled big on Potter, and I think they will be willing to play the long game with him unfortunately. 

I can see this club going through a banter era like Liverpool, United, and Arsenal had. 

They aren't going to publicly say he's on thin ice though. 

Next season isn't a free pass. Let's get that straight. We don't finish Top 4 next season we will  breach FFP by a substantial amount, Clearlake will want a return on the substantial amount of investment they put in, so breaching FFP will mean we aren't reaching the quota for revenue and it could potentially lead to financial ruin further down the line. 

With that much at stake, why would Potter still be in charge next season if we fail to see improvement this season? 

 

1 minute ago, Sconnie Blue said:

They aren't going to publicly say he's on thin ice though. 

Next season isn't a free pass. Let's get that straight. We don't finish Top 4 next season we will  breach FFP by a substantial amount, Clearlake will want a return on the substantial amount of investment they put in, so breaching FFP will mean we aren't reaching the quota for revenue and it could potentially lead to financial ruin further down the line. 

With that much at stake, why would Potter still be in charge next season if we fail to see improvement this season? 

 

The Board could just simply say we are sticking by him, but I think with their reasoning it looks like they are going to play the long game with Potter. 

I don't think Todd is an idiot though, as much as I hate some of the decisions he's made. To me, he looks like he's willing to take big risks. I think what he did in January was excellent, when you compare it to what he did in the summer the contrast is quite f**king scary. 

But I do agree with you, top 4 is essential with the investments we've made. But I don't know how anyone can honestly believe we compete for top 4 next season judging by this season. 

39 minutes ago, Andy2461 said:

So he’s now blaming tuchel pre season? 

I took it more as blaming those who organized the tour. We know TT himself was not happy with the organization of the tour as well.

So depends who organized the tour? Was it set up while Roman and his team were still running the shop or was it the new owners?

16 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

The Board could just simply say we are sticking by him, but I think with their reasoning it looks like they are going to play the long game with Potter. 

I don't think Todd is an idiot though, as much as I hate some of the decisions he's made. To me, he looks like he's willing to take big risks. I think what he did in January was excellent, when you compare it to what he did in the summer the contrast is quite f**king scary. 

But I do agree with you, top 4 is essential with the investments we've made. But I don't know how anyone can honestly believe we compete for top 4 next season judging by this season. 

And I am confidentially telling you that there is no long game with Potter if nothing improves. He won't be here next season if this continues. Right now Boehly is just not wanting to make himself look like a bigger ass. 

I honestly would respect Boehly a lot more if he simply said "We shouldn't of signed Potter before the likes of Vivell and Stewart arrived, as these gentlemen will be responsible for running this football club."