2 hours ago, Jangz said:

thanks poch i guess.. this is crazy,  have we been sold his cousin. Look at the duels and carrying.

It just shows that De Zerbi is way better tactically than Poch. 

 

The fact that Colwill also looked miles better at Brighton highlights it even more.

7 hours ago, Gonoir Beniashile said:

Lost for words and that level of regression under Poch. 

17 hours ago, Gonoir Beniashile said:

He's not played a single key pass all season? Surely not. 😂

17 hours ago, Gonoir Beniashile said:

What an insane drop off. I have gotten on his back so much lately and this is why, he's a totally different player. He can't be as bad as he is currently playing, there must be more to this. 

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

He's not played a single key pass all season? Surely not. 😂

According to FBref Caicedo has made 9 key passes in PL games alone, and other sites corroborate that, so this data looks highly suspect to me.

What was the source of it ?

 

Even the club web site shows 9 key passes btw  : https://www.chelseafc.com/en/teams/profile/moises-caicedo 

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

What an insane drop off. I have gotten on his back so much lately and this is why, he's a totally different player. He can't be as bad as he is currently playing, there must be more to this. 

Maybe he wasn't as good as he looked in a certain system last season.

The problem with buying young players after 1 good season is you don't know if they're the genuine article or a flash in the pan.

24 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

According to FBref Caicedo has made 9 key passes in PL games alone, and other sites corroborate that, so this data looks highly suspect to me.

What was the source of it ?

 

Even the club web site shows 9 key passes btw  : https://www.chelseafc.com/en/teams/profile/moises-caicedo 

Thought it seemed borderline impossible to go that many games without at least one key pass

2 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Thought it seemed borderline impossible to go that many games without at least one key pass

Unless you play for Sideways FC!

1 minute ago, PhilH930 said:

Unless you play for Sideways FC!

Jorginho sure would have thrived, sold too soon 

Don't think he shoulders any more blame than the 3 other people involved in the second clip but the first and third are just such schoolboy errors. 

First clip he even actively turns his head and watches the player stroll into the free space. Third one he did the hard work tracking then just chose to not block the free pass into the man in the box. 

29 minutes ago, PhilH930 said:

Unless you play for Sideways FC!

Amusingly, given all the pelters being aimed at Caicedo and Enzo, the midfielder with the highest percentage of sideways and backwards passes for us this season is Conor Gallagher (pass data all on the club website, in the player section)

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

According to FBref Caicedo has made 9 key passes in PL games alone, and other sites corroborate that, so this data looks highly suspect to me.

What was the source of it ?

 

Even the club web site shows 9 key passes btw  : https://www.chelseafc.com/en/teams/profile/moises-caicedo 

https://datamb.football/

 

Not sure how reliable it is... Perhaps not very!

 

Here's some different data:

 

 

9 minutes ago, Gonoir Beniashile said:

https://datamb.football/

 

Not sure how reliable it is... Perhaps not very!

 

Here's some different data:

 

 

Thanks pal !

Where was he playing for Brighton last season ? I didn't watch too many of their games, but I recollect him being a lot more box to box than he is for us at the moment ? 

I'd bet he wasn't being used as far back as we are using him, and that would perhaps partially explain the disparity in some of these metrics.

But for sure he's not playing at the same level, and the silly mistakes have unfortunately been costly. His performances are still not as bad as is being made out though. People are highlighting everything he does wrong, and ignoring the bigger slice of what he does right.

I still think you have to park the fee we paid to one side. He was never a £115m player. That is simply the fee it took to secure his services in a bidding war against another aggressive bidder, and from a club that didn't want to sell unless it was for a very high price. 

If Gallagher is £50m then Moises is probably £75-80m. I'd be surprised if that gap didn't widen at both ends as their careers progress. Ultimately I think he will prove to be decent value even at what we have paid. 

 

Very conscious that I appear to be on my own in here defending him mind you ... LOL 🙂 

4 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Thanks pal !

Where was he playing for Brighton last season ? I didn't watch too many of their games, but I recollect him being a lot more box to box than he is for us at the moment ? 

I'd bet he wasn't being used as far back as we are using him, and that would perhaps partially explain the disparity in some of these metrics.

But for sure he's not playing at the same level, and the silly mistakes have unfortunately been costly. His performances are still not as bad as is being made out though. People are highlighting everything he does wrong, and ignoring the bigger slice of what he does right.

I still think you have to park the fee we paid to one side. He was never a £115m player. That is simply the fee it took to secure his services in a bidding war against another aggressive bidder, and from a club that didn't want to sell unless it was for a very high price. 

If Gallagher is £50m then Moises is probably £75-80m. I'd be surprised if that gap didn't widen at both ends as their careers progress. Ultimately I think he will prove to be decent value even at what we have paid. 

 

Very conscious that I appear to be on my own in here defending him mind you ... LOL 🙂 

I'd happily defend him

The price is completely irrelevant. He didn't pick it. We can't do anything about it. 

If we bought him for 50m the narrative would be completely different. 

I think he's good enough to be in our first team for the next 10 years. But he needs time to either settle here or he needs a better manager who can get the best out of him. 

On 10/01/2024 at 22:05, Drogba1 said:

It just shows that De Zerbi is way better tactically than Poch. 

 

The fact that Colwill also looked miles better at Brighton highlights it even more.

The fact that Billy Gilmour looks miles better than ever he did under Tuchel is even more proof.

Plus the fact that Colwill looked a star under De Zerbi when Tuchel just binned him off.

Yep. Know where you are going with this. 

 

 

 

Moises is a good player, he will come good. So will Enzo. I don't believe they are tactically being used correctly.

Surely everyone can look at these stats for most of our players and realise Pochettino is the problem. The way Poch can't get the best out of a £200m midfield is baffling, Caicedo showed his quality week in and week out in the prem already and Enzo showed how important he can be last season as well as at Benfica and for Argentina. Counting down the days til the end so we can see the back of Poch.

On 11/01/2024 at 22:30, RIP Mourinho said:

Don't think he shoulders any more blame than the 3 other people involved in the second clip but the first and third are just such schoolboy errors. 

First clip he even actively turns his head and watches the player stroll into the free space. Third one he did the hard work tracking then just chose to not block the free pass into the man in the box. 

The 1st goal was 100% Colwill fault

On 11/01/2024 at 21:45, just said:

The fact that Billy Gilmour looks miles better than ever he did under Tuchel is even more proof.

Plus the fact that Colwill looked a star under De Zerbi when Tuchel just binned him off.

Yep. Know where you are going with this. 

Both of them were way younger under Tuchel, and Billy looked pretty good when he played

 

Colwill I believe was 18 at the time, big difference

9 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Both of them were way younger under Tuchel, and Billy looked pretty good when he played

 

Colwill I believe was 18 at the time, big difference

Colwill has gone on record and said Tuchel hardly ever spoke to him.

Tuchel lumbered us with Aubameyang and has just signed Eric Dier.

This conversation is finished. 

On 11/01/2024 at 15:19, Sexyfootball said:

Thanks pal !

Where was he playing for Brighton last season ? I didn't watch too many of their games, but I recollect him being a lot more box to box than he is for us at the moment ? 

I'd bet he wasn't being used as far back as we are using him, and that would perhaps partially explain the disparity in some of these metrics.

But for sure he's not playing at the same level, and the silly mistakes have unfortunately been costly. His performances are still not as bad as is being made out though. People are highlighting everything he does wrong, and ignoring the bigger slice of what he does right.

I still think you have to park the fee we paid to one side. He was never a £115m player. That is simply the fee it took to secure his services in a bidding war against another aggressive bidder, and from a club that didn't want to sell unless it was for a very high price. 

If Gallagher is £50m then Moises is probably £75-80m. I'd be surprised if that gap didn't widen at both ends as their careers progress. Ultimately I think he will prove to be decent value even at what we have paid. 

 

Very conscious that I appear to be on my own in here defending him mind you ... LOL 🙂 

What is often overlooked is that we pull players out of systems and pan them when they don't perform to the same levels.

I think Caicedo gets a lot of bad press but has also been culpable. But he has been playing in a system where Enzo has been average and Gallagher has hunted the ball well but is roaming all over the pitch. Furthermore the defence has been chopping and changing every week.

Enzo another example. Nowhere near worth the money and nowhere near his world cup form. Not his fault that Boehly et al are being mugged off. Also for that Argie side he was working with established pros like de Paul and Paredes. Here he has had the same issue, playing in a system where each individual is struggling and relationships are difficult to develop. 

I thought Caicedo had a solid game yesterday and Enzo looked a huge improvement from what I have seen in recent weeks.

Interesting the comments during the game that Caicedo and his family have been struggling to come to terms with some of the social media abuse. I don't think opinions expressed by fans amongst themselves on a fans forum necessarily counts as this site, for instance,  requires a membership.  But X and Instagram and all that other sh*t is in their faces whether they like it or not. Maybe we just have to accept that in an age when their appears to be far more greater direct access to our celebrities these youngsters are just not as thick skinned and mentally strong as previous generations.  Then again I don't suppose Bobby Moore was ever exposed to 14 year old spotty kids calling him a c**t for passing sideways.

I am not convinced of Poch, I will admit that, but if the manager can get the system right and the players can operate on the basis of a routine level of injuries both Caicedo and Fernandez could be great for us.

Edited January 14, 20242 yr by WhiteWall

9 hours ago, just said:

Colwill has gone on record and said Tuchel hardly ever spoke to him.

I've seen you mention that a lot but i've never once seen any Colwill quotes to support it so please to share the record 😀

 

4 hours ago, OriginalS said:

I've seen you mention that a lot but i've never once seen any Colwill quotes to support it so please to share the record 😀

 

https://www.the-sun.com/sport/8746764/chelsea-levi-colwill-new-contract-thomas-tuchel/

 

https://www.thechelseachronicle.com/club-news/thomas-tuchel-barely-spoke-to-40m-chelsea-player-it-really-upset-him/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12361761/Levi-Colwill-takes-swipe-Thomas-Tuchel-thanking-Brighton-giving-chance-no-one-did-pens-emotional-farewell-Seagulls-agreeing-new-six-year-deal-Chelsea.html

 

20 minutes ago, just said:

https://www.the-sun.com/sport/8746764/chelsea-levi-colwill-new-contract-thomas-tuchel/

 

https://www.thechelseachronicle.com/club-news/thomas-tuchel-barely-spoke-to-40m-chelsea-player-it-really-upset-him/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12361761/Levi-Colwill-takes-swipe-Thomas-Tuchel-thanking-Brighton-giving-chance-no-one-did-pens-emotional-farewell-Seagulls-agreeing-new-six-year-deal-Chelsea.html

 

I think we have different standards for on the record but thanks.