9 minutes ago, Dean said:

Argo. Not quite sure if you’re agreeing with me and asking a rhetorical q or not :). Anyway to clear up any misunderstanding if there is any, hierarchy of blame the way I see it is something like: 

- 70% the owners (what I meant by THE main culprit). No explanation required.

- 20% Lampard: this number/share would be much much higher (at the expense of owner share oh blame) were it not for the fact they hired him despite it having already been proven beyond all reasonable doubt that he can’t coach to save his life.

- 10% players: I don’t think any of them WANT to play like this, or are downing their tools (or whatever phrase people like to use), as it really isn’t in their interests even if they do want out. 

Yeah sorry was agreeing.

Last time IIRC Rudiger the main villain of the piece only to become genuinely world class for 18 months. 

19 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

I have to admit I am struggling with this "wait it out". I just kind of want Pochettino to come in now, but then I remind myself it's not a good idea. 

But Lampard's setup is f**king diabolic. I just want this season to end, but it's awful, piss poor even having to watch this Chelsea side right now. 

He's a dreadful manager, to think there were absolute riots going on with so many Chelsea fans on here when he got the sack. He won't get a Premier League job ever again. 

I can't even believe I'm about to unironically say this but we should have a) gone for Roy as interim when we sacked Potter (or begged Bruno to see it through on the promise he can go if Potter gets a job) and b) hijacked Leeds for Big Sam in last week. Both as interims ofcourse.

Edited May 3, 20233 yr by Argo

My understanding is that Bruno's qualifications were acceptable to the league, but not for Champions league, hence the appointment prior to Real Madrid.

21 minutes ago, Argo said:

I can't even believe I'm about to unironically say this but we should have a) gone for Roy as interim when we sacked Potter (or begged Bruno to see it through on the promise he can go if Potter gets a job) and b) hijacked Leeds for Big Sam in last week. Both as interims ofcourse.

I wouldn't be particularly happy getting either of them but they are objectively better managers than Frank Lampard. 

It was extremely difficult to call out Frank's severe limitations back when he was our manager in 2020/21. Because of the whole club legend status, fans were extremely divided even though it was obvious he had blatant tactical flaws. Watching us play against Bayern Munich in the Champions League was horrible, I've never seen our team so vulnerable before. 

He was extremely lucky to land the Everton job, and he's been very lucky to land this job. People want to pretend he's unlucky as if the job has been forced on him. He should be counting his lucky stars he's getting a good-paying job at his favorite club with the least amount of pressure a Chelsea manager has had since maybe forever. And almost everything about him and the way he sets us up has been woeful. 

He's not a Premier League manager, and I wouldn't be surprised if his recent tenure as a football manager has regressed him. I couldn't see him doing well in the Championship anytime soon, he looks totally out of his depth. When we hired him I tried my best to see the positivity in his appointment, but then I realised I was being severely deluded. We hired someone even worse than Potter, I'm beginning to sway more and more toward the idea that we should just get Pochettino in ASAP. 

Edited May 3, 20233 yr by Victor90

3 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

I wouldn't be particularly happy getting either of them but they are objectively better managers than Frank Lampard. 

It was extremely difficult to call out Frank's severe limitations back when he was a manager. Because of the whole club legend status, fans were extremely divided even though it was obvious he had extreme tactical flaws. Watching us play against Bayern Munich in the Champions League was horrible, I've never seen our team so vulnerable before. 

He was extremely lucky to land the Everton job, and he's been very lucky to land this job. People want to pretend he's unlucky as if the job has been forced on him. He should be counting his lucky stars he's getting a good-paying job at his favorite club with the least amount of pressure a Chelsea manager has had since maybe forever. And almost everything about him and the way he sets us up has been woeful. 

He's not a Premier League manager, and I wouldn't be surprised if his recent tenure as a football manager has regressed him. I couldn't see him doing well in the Championship anytime soon, he looks totally out of his depth. When we hired him I tried my best to see the positivity in his appointment, but then I realised I was being severely deluded. We hired someone even worse than Potter, I'm beginning to sway more and more towards the idea that we should just get Pochettino in ASAP. 

Frank was a great player for Chelsea but he's confused this with being able to manage a Premier League team of 11 highly talented players.  A lot of people on here were equally confused and I was so angry.  The one doesn't inevitably lead to the former.  Frank has now put himself firmly in the same camp as Neville and Scholes, great players, crap managers. At least this is a road Chelsea won't have to experience again.

Lampard's coaching strikes me as arrogance. Systems are far more important now than individual quality. The latter was a big influence in Lampard's time as a player, which is why I am thinking that is his influence in coaching, vs actually building tactics and a system. 

 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

No one's saying there isn't issues that go beyond Frank but he's made the situation worse. Both can be true.

Potter for all his flaws conceded 20 league goals, Lampard is nearly half way there already.

Not really. Under Potter we looks better only after he switched to 343. Midfield cannot defend, no problem. Attacker does not want to defend, no problem. 

Let's say lamp switch to 343 and we finish 8th. So? 

 

24 minutes ago, Ajbod said:

My understanding is that Bruno's qualifications were acceptable to the league, but not for Champions league, hence the appointment prior to Real Madrid.

Bruno Saltor has the UEFA Pro License, which is the highest level.

Frank Lampard only has the UEFA A license, meaning Chelsea needs to pay up some £20k+ every game he's coaching.

16 hours ago, Argo said:

From what I can gather Ole was basically sucking off The Glazers throughout his time at the club. If we had owners like that (for all of Clearlakes faults they're not asset stripping the club and have ambition for good or bad) I certainly would not take well to a club legend getting cozy with them.

Rio had Vidic on his podcast and Vidic said that the season SAF left and Moyes came in, it was a monumental step backwards in terms of coaching involvement. Moyes thought that since they were Premier League champions, they didn't need much coaching because of the experience they had. They are smart and mature enough to know what needs to be done. Season capitulated and Vidic had enough, walked into Moyes office and had an altercation with him. Told Moyes that he needs to give the players instructions and guide them. What do we do with the build up? When does the defence need to step up? How do you want us to play in the final third? This team has always been driven by guidance. 

2 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Not really. Under Potter we looks better only after he switched to 343. Midfield cannot defend, no problem. Attacker does not want to defend, no problem. 

Let's say lamp switch to 343 and we finish 8th. So? 

 

Even in a back four we weren't conceding that often. And even though results weren't following at this point the performances were starting to pick up pretty much since Fulham away.

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

Even in a back four we weren't conceding that often. And even though results weren't following at this point the performances were starting to pick up pretty much since Fulham away.

We played well for a short spell because Felix was balling but it wasn't good whatsoever, then Potter moved to 343 then we looked so much better. 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 20233 yr by Bob stark

I'd agree. You have to question how much influence Enzo and Felix had at the time. Badiashile too. 

I will say though that despite a back 4 or 5 under Potter, we looked relatively more composed as to what ever the f**k we see now. 

Since a lot of people think the problem is just Lamp . Let's just analyze arse 1st  and 2nd goal. They are quite similar. 

1st goal 

The ball move to zinchenko on the wide area. 

Madueke engange zinhcenko. We are in 433. All is good. 

Now here comes the problem. Enzo was ball watching and Jesus was free between the line and now as you can see it became 3 v 2 at the back 

Kova should have intercepted the cross and kepa should have saved that shot but that is whole another story. 

2nd goal. 

Kante went high to press (we were defending in 442). The ball went wide. 

And I don't have to tell you where the ball will go when you can see free granit in the middle. It became 3 men game out wide, the ball should have been cut by Sterling. 

Can you fix it tactically? I think so. But you know what will be better than hiding Enzo, coach Enzo defensively. This is not a sprint race situation or tackling issue, this is more awareness and maybe effort issue. It is definitely coachable. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, enigma said:

The problem is also when we signed Potter and Potter tried to build something, we were having constant injuries. People scoffed at that as some excuse, but it was a massive excuse. You can't keep losing key players of the consistency we did and be settled when it comes to tactics. All the teams performing well this season have had some form of consistency with their first team. Look at Kante, he's been one of our better players since returning from injury and the guy barely played mins under Potter because he was out. James constantly out, same for Chilwell, same for other players too. That's why I felt that Potter's time here was unfairly judged and calling for his sacking was harsh. I would have preferred him to have stayed until after the RM tie to see how things went given he helped us qualify for the 1/4 finals, but he never got that chance. 

Fair points re injuries. But again - a lot of the blame here lies with the powers that be. See my rants on the WC (I don’t mind if you don’t of course:)). The demands of the modern game are really high and, though I’m no expert, I suspect there are too many games. I also think potter should have been given till end of the season. That couldn’t be clearer now.

9 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Since a lot of people think the problem is just Lamp . Let's just analyze arse 1st  and 2nd goal. They are quite similar. 

1st goal 

The ball move to zinchenko on the wide area. 

Madueke engange zinhcenko. We are in 433. All is good. 

Now here comes the problem. Enzo was ball watching and Jesus was free between the line and now as you can see it became 3 v 2 at the back 

Kova should have intercepted the cross and kepa should have saved that shot but that is whole another story. 

2nd goal. 

Kante went high to press (we were defending in 442). The ball went wide. 

And I don't have to tell you where the ball will go when you can see free granit in the middle. It became 3 men game out wide, the ball should have been cut by Sterling. 

Can you fix it tactically? I think so. But you know what will be better than hiding Enzo, coach Enzo defensively. This is not a sprint race situation or tackling issue, this is more awareness and maybe effort issue. It is definitely coachable. 

 

I think the best way to 'fix' this is to actually get a holding midfielder that has the awareness to protect this space. Enzo isn't it and was never it. 

23 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I think the best way to 'fix' this is to actually get a holding midfielder that has the awareness to protect this space. Enzo isn't it and was never it. 

Yes it would help, If we have Kante instead of Kova, he would have intercepted the 1st cross. 

But what would be better? Coach Enzo. 

4 hours ago, Bob stark said:

The problem is the fanbase want a manager who will come in and just turn the team around instead thinking who want to deal with this mess. 

Why any top manager want to coach us right now? It is suicide. 

The players are on Ibiza mode. You have no time to do anything and lamp has been complaining about player physical conditioning which mean you can't play the way you want and the player you want. 

 

I don't think that is true at all and i don't think that has been the case for a large proportion of the fanbase throughout the season. Certainly we are in such a parlous position currently that we need somebody that is capable of arresting the slump but more practically than that we need somebody to introduce a fitness and conditioning regime now so that it is already implemented by the time the transfer merry go round takes place and we try, probably in vain, to ship out 10 - 15 players.

It is not about coaching us now, we know thsi is already dead. It has been for the last 4 months. It is about a pre - pre season for those players that have a future here. 

On 06/04/2023 at 00:17, Ibby_786 said:

I would Play 3-4-2-1 with Madueke Mydrik and Havertz at the top Because od his Experience 

One thing you can be sure about in life: just when you think that things are never ever going to get better, they suddenly get worse.

Think that visit by Boehly to the dressing room and CL exit really did a job on the players. Yes, we were losing before that , but at least looked like we are trying. Now the majority of the starting players not showing up for the game. Just look at those goals we conceded last night, for experienced MF for not tracking an attacker in the box, to nobody going for the first ball in the corner, you don't need a manager to tell players to do that. The only thing Frank could do better is picking the players who want to be here, although the pool of the players is getting smaller each week.

Simon Jordan was saying he would get Lampard out and bring in Pochettino. Lampard could get at least 10 losses in a row, which is unfathomable at Chelsea. 

Edited May 4, 20233 yr by enigma

39 minutes ago, enigma said:

Simon Jordan was saying he would get Lampard out and bring in Pochettino. Lampard could get at least 10 losses in a row, which is unfathomable at Chelsea. 

I agree

30 minutes ago, El regreso said:

I agree

There's just no point waiting at this point. It's not exactly getting better. There's not much Lampard is going to do at this point in the season, and bringing in the future coach makes way more sense than keeping an interim on. Just depends if Pochettino would want to join now than wait, it would be on him I think. 

52 minutes ago, enigma said:

There's just no point waiting at this point. It's not exactly getting better. There's not much Lampard is going to do at this point in the season, and bringing in the future coach makes way more sense than keeping an interim on. Just depends if Pochettino would want to join now than wait, it would be on him I think. 

Use the rest of the games as pre season see who wants to be here next season try out systems it’s actually a wasted opportunity now not to bring in the new coach to get working on next season from now.

Sorry for delay in replying to those folk who replied to my striker comparisons.  

Re Tammy, my point is that there are teams with a 10/15 goal striker all doing better in the league than us who have spent close to 200 million over a few seasons trying to find a striker. give me a striker who can stick the ball in the net, I don't care if its off the arse or elbow, but no focal point in the team has reduced us to bottom half of the table. 

if there are so many great or better strikers out there than former player Tammy Abraham, lets see those names, also as important, how much do you think they'd be worth if money bags Chelsea came calling? 60 million for Watkins? 55/60 million for Mitrovic? then ask would they come to us currently, then ask, what do you want from a striker? Is it runs in behind a defence or a striker who will knit play together a la Giroud? Do we want a Jesus type player or a target man... a man who runs off the shoulder or is a fox in the box. TBH, we could do a lot worse than bobby firming. Not a great goal scorer but is a guy who can lead the line and bring others into play and most importantly press from the front. 

My point about the likes of Bamford and Solanke et all, is they might not be world beaters, but they work their socks off from the front, score goals or assist and work for the team. The best teams consist of individuals and not so great players who work well together. Someone like Daka at Leicester is another team striker who will run channels and off the shoulder runs. Never going to score large amounts of goals but would create space for the likes of Gallagher and Mount. 

Anyhow, Im sure the club will get it right, Im all for giving Broja the keys to a Ferrari if he could bang in 10/15 goals and help defend from the front. Could save us 100 million as well. Thank goodness its nearly the end of the season.