Tactically Pochettino is not good enough. We leak goals, in general we are bad at set pieces, our midfield gets dominated.

At the same time the recruitment has been very poor.

With better players is Poch higher up the table with us? Yes, in my opinion.

With Klopp or Pep as our manager are we higher up with the table with these players? Yes, in my opinion. Or even Big Ange? Yes, in my opinion.

The same people responsible for recruiting poorly in the player market have under performed massively when looking at managers. Bad choices in both, and we are where we are.

Cheaper to change managers than players though, Roman knew that. This group should be doing better than what they are.

Losing to Liverpool is fair enough, they are a top side, this group is not. Newcastle away, again it happens.

But Forest at home? Villa at home with their poor away record? Brentford at home? West Ham away etc etc. Poor tactics, poor in game management.

Poch is not good enough with this kind of squad to achieve success for me. You have to find the next Klopp, the next Jose, and snap him up. The personality, the firm idea of how they want the game to be played but the Tactical ability to change where needed.

 

Or rip up the squad and give Poch players Nkunkus ability in each position, without the injuries. Then Poch will get your CL football.

 

Or we can carry on what we are doing, see how those balance sheets are doing and if the money projections are going as the owners want. 

6 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Tactically Pochettino is not good enough. We leak goals, in general we are bad at set pieces, our midfield gets dominated.

At the same time the recruitment has been very poor.

With better players is Poch higher up the table with us? Yes, in my opinion.

With Klopp or Pep as our manager are we higher up with the table with these players? Yes, in my opinion. Or even Big Ange? Yes, in my opinion.

The same people responsible for recruiting poorly in the player market have under performed massively when looking at managers. Bad choices in both, and we are where we are.

Cheaper to change managers than players though, Roman knew that. This group should be doing better than what they are.

Losing to Liverpool is fair enough, they are a top side, this group is not. Newcastle away, again it happens.

But Forest at home? Villa at home with their poor away record? Brentford at home? West Ham away etc etc. Poor tactics, poor in game management.

Poch is not good enough with this kind of squad to achieve success for me. You have to find the next Klopp, the next Jose, and snap him up. The personality, the firm idea of how they want the game to be played but the Tactical ability to change where needed.

 

Or rip up the squad and give Poch players Nkunkus ability in each position, without the injuries. Then Poch will get your CL football.

 

Or we can carry on what we are doing, see how those balance sheets are doing and if the money projections are going as the owners want. 

What kind of tactic do you want this team to play ? 

Edited February 2, 20242 yr by Bob stark

1 minute ago, Bob stark said:

What kind of tactic do you want this team to play ? 

Not a football manager myself Bob. Not able to give you a break down of a formation and how player a and player x sync together.

As I said above our defence is abysmal, and our midfield gets dominated. That needs to be fixed.

Or to put my point in a way with less words.

A talented squad of players can achieve success in spite of a poor manager (Di Matteo) or go within a slip of doing so (Avram Grant and Brendan Rogers).

An average collection of players with a couple of really good ones can go on to do something special with a top, top manager (Jose at Porto).

11 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

What kind of tactic do you want this team to play ? 

Very simply.

- Stop the slow, boring, stagnant playing from the back, possession for the sake of possession.

- play to the strengths of the current players. Which in my opinion is using pace to advance the ball quickly; which means sitting deeper and hitting on the break. 
 

 

7 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Very simply.

- Stop the slow, boring, stagnant playing from the back, possession for the sake of possession.

- play to the strengths of the current players. Which in my opinion is using pace to advance the ball quickly; which means sitting deeper and hitting on the break. 
 

 

Exactly. And then gaps open up. Leicester won the league with 45% average possession. At least in some games. Other games go back to possession. 

Edited February 2, 20242 yr by ozboy

We need to get the Fraud squad in, if he couldn’t really get a tune out of Messi, Mbappe and Netmar what hope for our inept squad, Thiagos legacy is waning with this pretender leading us, and as for Todd Boehloney, 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

Very simply.

- Stop the slow, boring, stagnant playing from the back, possession for the sake of possession.

- play to the strengths of the current players. Which in my opinion is using pace to advance the ball quickly; which means sitting deeper and hitting on the break. 
 

 

I love chaos ball but If you want to play fast you need to be clinical because the faster you get forward the faster the ball will go back and you need to be very good defensively in duel. 

Now how confidence you are with our fw line and how confidence you are with our CB and our midfield in duel (silva is not playable at all, Enzo is questionable) ? 

 

Edited February 2, 20242 yr by Bob stark

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Not a football manager myself Bob. Not able to give you a break down of a formation and how player a and player x sync together.

As I said above our defence is abysmal, and our midfield gets dominated. That needs to be fixed.

If you want to improve defensively, The simplest and the most realistic option for us (other than getting Nkunku n chuku healthy quickly) is to play one more defender. I guarantee our defense will get better but you will get a call from the board very soon 😁😁😁

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

If you want to improve defensively, The simplest and the most realistic option for us (other than getting Nkunku n chuku healthy quickly) is to play one more defender. I guarantee our defense will get better but you will get a call from the board very soon 😁😁😁

Or perhaps a better coach.

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

If you want to improve defensively, The simplest and the most realistic option for us (other than getting Nkunku n chuku healthy quickly) is to play one more defender. I guarantee our defense will get better but you will get a call from the board very soon 😁😁😁

He already tried that with Chilwell at left wing didn't he

3 minutes ago, Remodez said:

He already tried that with Chilwell at left wing didn't he

Did we concede many goals back then ? 

 

10 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

Or perhaps a better coach.

Agree, but what the better coach can do to improve our team? 

He certainly can't select different player. Vs pool, the only senior player on the bench who could have started was Mudryk. 

 

15 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Did we concede many goals back then ? 

 

Too small of a sample to draw any meaningful conclusions but we weren't any more defensively solid. 

 

I just saw this. The guy blamed Badi but that is not the problem. 

A simple switch play and they had 3 v 2 because Enzo is like 😝😝😝 Defending what defending, until Palmer dropped to help. 

I criticized jorgi defensively but jorgi know what to do defensively, he was just freaking slow. Enzo defensively is 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

I posted something similar last year vs arse

Edited February 2, 20242 yr by Bob stark

3 hours ago, Bob stark said:

What kind of tactic do you want this team to play ? 

Its before that Bob.

What does the club want to achieve?

What is Chelsea Football Club's ambition and after the initial bedding in period and the money spent thus far, is the organisational structure and personnel appropriate to achieve that goal? If so, on what evidence is this based.

We are all given objectives and goals, we all have appraisals and performnce reviews. Where do our Recruitment team and and the Strategic developemnt team sit currently.

For most of us, the sh*tpan, we'd say.

 

 

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Tactically Pochettino is not good enough. We leak goals, in general we are bad at set pieces, our midfield gets dominated.

At the same time the recruitment has been very poor.

With better players is Poch higher up the table with us? Yes, in my opinion.

With Klopp or Pep as our manager are we higher up with the table with these players? Yes, in my opinion. Or even Big Ange? Yes, in my opinion.

The same people responsible for recruiting poorly in the player market have under performed massively when looking at managers. Bad choices in both, and we are where we are.

Cheaper to change managers than players though, Roman knew that. This group should be doing better than what they are.

Losing to Liverpool is fair enough, they are a top side, this group is not. Newcastle away, again it happens.

But Forest at home? Villa at home with their poor away record? Brentford at home? West Ham away etc etc. Poor tactics, poor in game management.

Poch is not good enough with this kind of squad to achieve success for me. You have to find the next Klopp, the next Jose, and snap him up. The personality, the firm idea of how they want the game to be played but the Tactical ability to change where needed.

 

Or rip up the squad and give Poch players Nkunkus ability in each position, without the injuries. Then Poch will get your CL football.

 

Or we can carry on what we are doing, see how those balance sheets are doing and if the money projections are going as the owners want. 

I like this and agree with pretty much all points. 

Interesting you cited Jose and Klopp, both viewed and perceptive recruits that blossomed in our league. All true, but Jose was already a CL winner and Klopp was a beaten finalist aginst their arch rival (I still belive anyone other than Bayern and Dortmund win that final).

Its not just about potential, experience with the ability to develop further is what matters, IMO

19 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

 

I just saw this. The guy blamed Badi but that is not the problem. 

A simple switch play and they had 3 v 2 because Enzo is like 😝😝😝 Defending what defending, until Palmer dropped to help. 

 

He is correct as well though Bob, but i also agree with you.

This press business is a fallacy. Chelsea players make a show of marking space and never fully commit. Therefore any team that are confident with a one and two touch passing move in our final third will always cut through us. Fernandez is never near enough to commit and win tackles and only really get the ball from errors and turnovers from the opposition. If we are not prepared to hound, press and harry on a concerted team effort in our midfield area that we have no option but to overload it surely, jut to close the availabel space and passing lanes

In my opinion the only coach to bring in now is Flick. He was one of my first choices in the summer and still is.

He's proven he can compete with the best. Poch never did that.

37 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Its before that Bob.

What does the club want to achieve?

What is Chelsea Football Club's ambition and after the initial bedding in period and the money spent thus far, is the organisational structure and personnel appropriate to achieve that goal? If so, on what evidence is this based.

We are all given objectives and goals, we all have appraisals and performnce reviews. Where do our Recruitment team and and the Strategic developemnt team sit currently.

For most of us, the sh*tpan, we'd say.

 

 

I don't know the goal of the club. 

If you look at all the signing, all of them are fine individually (not the fee). Even Mudryk who I criticized many time is a good project. 

But as collective, it is 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

If the plan is to have Enzo as pivot, surely you want to sign a big dm especially if none of your attacker can compete in the air. 

Jackson is a very interesting player. But you don't want to have Jackson, mudryk and madueke in the team. You simply have too many projects. 

45 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

He is correct as well though Bob, but i also agree with you.

This press business is a fallacy. Chelsea players make a show of marking space and never fully commit. Therefore any team that are confident with a one and two touch passing move in our final third will always cut through us. Fernandez is never near enough to commit and win tackles and only really get the ball from errors and turnovers from the opposition. If we are not prepared to hound, press and harry on a concerted team effort in our midfield area that we have no option but to overload it surely, jut to close the availabel space and passing lanes

Badi is not my concern in that play. Enzo is by far the biggest problem. You simply can't play pivot playing like that. 

I criticized jorgi many times but jorgi know how to defend he was just so freaking slow, Enzo defensively is just shocking. 

Edited February 2, 20242 yr by Bob stark

5 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Tactically Pochettino is not good enough. We leak goals, in general we are bad at set pieces, our midfield gets dominated.

At the same time the recruitment has been very poor.

With better players is Poch higher up the table with us? Yes, in my opinion.

With Klopp or Pep as our manager are we higher up with the table with these players? Yes, in my opinion. Or even Big Ange? Yes, in my opinion.

The same people responsible for recruiting poorly in the player market have under performed massively when looking at managers. Bad choices in both, and we are where we are.

Cheaper to change managers than players though, Roman knew that. This group should be doing better than what they are.

Losing to Liverpool is fair enough, they are a top side, this group is not. Newcastle away, again it happens.

But Forest at home? Villa at home with their poor away record? Brentford at home? West Ham away etc etc. Poor tactics, poor in game management.

Poch is not good enough with this kind of squad to achieve success for me. You have to find the next Klopp, the next Jose, and snap him up. The personality, the firm idea of how they want the game to be played but the Tactical ability to change where needed.

 

Or rip up the squad and give Poch players Nkunkus ability in each position, without the injuries. Then Poch will get your CL football.

 

Or we can carry on what we are doing, see how those balance sheets are doing and if the money projections are going as the owners want. 

You could argue you should find another Messi, DeBruyne and Haaland and snap them up. You could argue you should find the next "Man City's" backroom staff and recruitment and snap them up. 

Not many available, don't you think. 

We have Pochettino who has good track record in Premier League. Is he the messiah for us, we don't know yet. Let him build the side and let's enjoy the ride be it more or less bumpy. Roman era is long gone.

5 minutes ago, evissy said:

You could argue you should find another Messi, DeBruyne and Haaland and snap them up. You could argue you should find the next "Man City's" backroom staff and recruitment and snap them up. 

Not many available, don't you think. 

We have Pochettino who has good track record in Premier League. Is he the messiah for us, we don't know yet. Let him build the side and let's enjoy the ride be it more or less bumpy. Roman era is long gone.

Liverpool finished 8th in Klopp 1st season 

23 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Badi is not my concern in that play. Enzo is by far the biggest problem. You simply can't play pivot playing like that. I criticized jorgi many times but jorgi know how to defend he was just so freaking slow. 

Someone made an excellent analogy comparing Fernandez to Juan Sebastian Veron the other day.

Great player, does some lovely stuff, but hard to fit into a team that requires it's midfielders to be able to defend. Basically, the stereotypical "luxury" player conundrum ...

 

Our midfield issue is one of balance to me. 

The club has signed players seemingly to enable a 4-2-3-1 formation as the preferred formation and "style of play". 

Ideally the pivot is going to be made up of one DM and one CM, with an AM between the lines in front of them. Issue for Poch is that for most of the season he's had his two DMs injured (Ugochukwu and Lavia), plus his two AMs also injured (Nkunku and Chukwuemeka).

As a result, he's had to play a CM at DM, and another CM at AM (or he can try Palmer, which has worked, but then creates a problem at RW with either Sterling playing "out of position" - he's best at LW - or Madueke, who has had some issues with attitude and fitness in first half of season, and is also very inconsistent. And then if you move Sterling to RW, you have to play Mudryk at LW ... which brings new problems LOL ). 

None of the CMs (Caicedo, Gallagher, Enzo) offer quite enough protection at DM for the defence, nor do they offer enough as an AM to support the attack, especially when the attack has it's own issues. Hence Poch has tried, and continues to try, a lot of variations to try and find something that works.

But even putting all that to one side, you still have the youthful issue of a chronic lack of experience. Our midfield "experience" is 23 year olds like Gallagher and Fernandez. Everyone else is 19, 20, 21.

Caicedo and Enzo looks a good pivot on paper, but as a pivot pairing, it lacks height (both 178) and neither is quite good enough as DM, particularly Enzo. 

You could argue that he should simply play a different formation if the midfield lacks DMs and AMs, but concurrently he's also been short of wing backs (all four have had significant absences) so 3-4-2-1 or 3-4-3 would be problematic. 

He could also have lined up 4-3-3, but our forward line is not strong enough to have a midfield of Gallagher, Enzo and Caicedo behind it. Simply not enough goals in the team. And again you have the defensive issues with all the CMs, and not one of them even 6 ft to help with winning headers.

Not sure what the answer is, apart from recovering injured players and having patience as all the players mature !

I don't think the manager is the problem myself.