On 31/01/2024 at 21:02, LongtimerLurker said:

United sniffing around Mourinho, honestly if they get him and Pep and Klopp are gone I think United win the league within the next 2 seasons whilst we continue to push for top 6 facepalm.

If he did that we would need to call him the Special One once again.

However a lot of their fan base dislike him. 

 

15 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Is it so difficult for our scouts to identify the next 'Mourinho' or top manager in the same way Levy identified Ange?

Ange has not won anything yet though he has done well.

10 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

 

You could argue that he should simply play a different formation if the midfield lacks DMs and AMs, but concurrently he's also been short of wing backs (all four have had significant absences) so 3-4-2-1 or 3-4-3 would be problematic. 

He could also have lined up 4-3-3, but our forward line is not strong enough to have a midfield of Gallagher, Enzo and Caicedo behind it. Simply not enough goals in the team. And again you have the defensive issues with all the CMs, and not one of them even 6 ft to help with winning headers.

 

Can’t agree with that, but we’ll never know because he never tried it. Could easily have had gusto, Diasi Silva,Colwill maatsen with Enzo and Caicedo. It’s true that Jackson and Sterling aren’t costa and hazard but it’s still a viable formation. But it’s beside the point. The point actually is Poch doesn’t get a tune out of the players. Good managers find ways to make it work. They really do. 

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Badi is not my concern in that play. Enzo is by far the biggest problem. You simply can't play pivot playing like that. 

I criticized jorgi many times but jorgi know how to defend he was just so freaking slow, Enzo defensively is just shocking. 

Absolutely agree.

Whilst i agree that Badiashile isn't the root of the issue, he should still have an element of spatial awareness. Everybody should be aware that a breakdown in the process and teh chain around them can occur. Gary Cahill made a career out of being the last ditch guy. THat's an intergral part of defending, expect the unexpected.

But i do agree with you.

3 hours ago, I am a CPA said:

In my opinion the only coach to bring in now is Flick. He was one of my first choices in the summer and still is.

He's proven he can compete with the best. Poch never did that.

Did he ever find the fallen Madonna with the big boobies though?, that's the burning question.

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Someone made an excellent analogy comparing Fernandez to Juan Sebastian Veron the other day.

Great player, does some lovely stuff, but hard to fit into a team that requires it's midfielders to be able to defend. Basically, the stereotypical "luxury" player conundrum ...

 

Our midfield issue is one of balance to me. 

The club has signed players seemingly to enable a 4-2-3-1 formation as the preferred formation and "style of play". 

Ideally the pivot is going to be made up of one DM and one CM, with an AM between the lines in front of them. Issue for Poch is that for most of the season he's had his two DMs injured (Ugochukwu and Lavia), plus his two AMs also injured (Nkunku and Chukwuemeka).

As a result, he's had to play a CM at DM, and another CM at AM (or he can try Palmer, which has worked, but then creates a problem at RW with either Sterling playing "out of position" - he's best at LW - or Madueke, who has had some issues with attitude and fitness in first half of season, and is also very inconsistent. And then if you move Sterling to RW, you have to play Mudryk at LW ... which brings new problems LOL ). 

None of the CMs (Caicedo, Gallagher, Enzo) offer quite enough protection at DM for the defence, nor do they offer enough as an AM to support the attack, especially when the attack has it's own issues. Hence Poch has tried, and continues to try, a lot of variations to try and find something that works.

But even putting all that to one side, you still have the youthful issue of a chronic lack of experience. Our midfield "experience" is 23 year olds like Gallagher and Fernandez. Everyone else is 19, 20, 21.

Caicedo and Enzo looks a good pivot on paper, but as a pivot pairing, it lacks height (both 178) and neither is quite good enough as DM, particularly Enzo. 

You could argue that he should simply play a different formation if the midfield lacks DMs and AMs, but concurrently he's also been short of wing backs (all four have had significant absences) so 3-4-2-1 or 3-4-3 would be problematic. 

He could also have lined up 4-3-3, but our forward line is not strong enough to have a midfield of Gallagher, Enzo and Caicedo behind it. Simply not enough goals in the team. And again you have the defensive issues with all the CMs, and not one of them even 6 ft to help with winning headers.

Not sure what the answer is, apart from recovering injured players and having patience as all the players mature !

I don't think the manager is the problem myself. 

 

Boom,

What an excellent summary.

I still cling to the faint hope, though, that a manager can still provide some structure and organisation, along with a minimum required level of 100% effort, and it is this, not the undoubted tactical and formation issues that you describe, that i find Poch and his staff wanting in.

2 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

 

What was he smoking is the better question...

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Someone made an excellent analogy comparing Fernandez to Juan Sebastian Veron the other day.

Great player, does some lovely stuff, but hard to fit into a team that requires it's midfielders to be able to defend. Basically, the stereotypical "luxury" player conundrum ...

 

Our midfield issue is one of balance to me. 

The club has signed players seemingly to enable a 4-2-3-1 formation as the preferred formation and "style of play". 

Ideally the pivot is going to be made up of one DM and one CM, with an AM between the lines in front of them. Issue for Poch is that for most of the season he's had his two DMs injured (Ugochukwu and Lavia), plus his two AMs also injured (Nkunku and Chukwuemeka).

As a result, he's had to play a CM at DM, and another CM at AM (or he can try Palmer, which has worked, but then creates a problem at RW with either Sterling playing "out of position" - he's best at LW - or Madueke, who has had some issues with attitude and fitness in first half of season, and is also very inconsistent. And then if you move Sterling to RW, you have to play Mudryk at LW ... which brings new problems LOL ). 

None of the CMs (Caicedo, Gallagher, Enzo) offer quite enough protection at DM for the defence, nor do they offer enough as an AM to support the attack, especially when the attack has it's own issues. Hence Poch has tried, and continues to try, a lot of variations to try and find something that works.

But even putting all that to one side, you still have the youthful issue of a chronic lack of experience. Our midfield "experience" is 23 year olds like Gallagher and Fernandez. Everyone else is 19, 20, 21.

Caicedo and Enzo looks a good pivot on paper, but as a pivot pairing, it lacks height (both 178) and neither is quite good enough as DM, particularly Enzo. 

You could argue that he should simply play a different formation if the midfield lacks DMs and AMs, but concurrently he's also been short of wing backs (all four have had significant absences) so 3-4-2-1 or 3-4-3 would be problematic. 

He could also have lined up 4-3-3, but our forward line is not strong enough to have a midfield of Gallagher, Enzo and Caicedo behind it. Simply not enough goals in the team. And again you have the defensive issues with all the CMs, and not one of them even 6 ft to help with winning headers.

Not sure what the answer is, apart from recovering injured players and having patience as all the players mature !

I don't think the manager is the problem myself. 

 

I always remember the movie the Dirty Dozen, where 12 misfits are put together to go on a mission, putting them together and trying to make them into a team was a difficult task from start to finish but they got there in the end...here we have a group of players never played with each other, each with their own skill sets and traits together with their inexperience I'm sure makes the task even more difficult.  

I think you are bang on in your observations especially in the middle of the park.  We have no-one that can score from midfield, and Enzo and Caicedo are so far apart the opposing teams midfield must think its a dream with the space they have, and neither of the two has the legs to recover when the ball is lost. Gallagher is trying to be that AM but he's not technically good enough, although he shows more effort and heart than the other two albeit at times running around like a headless chicken, but that alone does not win you games.   Enzo wanders off too far forward instead of sitting in the middle leaving Caicedo to be a DM and CM, he's no Kante or Makele or even a John Obi for that matter.  We've had some great midfield players at this club, I think we have the potential to be there again.   I'd remove Gallagher and bring in Casadei or Carney for power and height, both of which we are severely lacking in the middle, both have goals in them and I'd ensure that Enzo stops straying too far forward.

I think Enzo won't make it here either, not good enough at scoring and off the pace defensively.

Yet with FFP getting teeth we cannot afford too many expensive misjudgments.

I don’t think Poch should be sacked. I think he should at least be given until the end of the season for an annual review. Long term, I don’t think he’s the man for the job but I think he’s a good stop gap until the board find their next manager that they are willing to back all the way.

f**k it, just give the job to Bob. 

😁😁😁

Does this remind of you of a certain team? 

Clearly poch instruction to enzo is, we are playing 4231 once we are attacking, you are a pivot just go forward and play as st. 

Edited February 3, 20242 yr by Bob stark

This exact problem was with Jorginho. For Italy he was protected and his team mates sort of served him instead of everyone being of the same value to create/defend. This imbalance is between our 3 main midfielders. Caicedo and Gallagher should protect Enzo to have the freedom to create. This can be fixed with good coaching and minutes together on the pitch.

2 minutes ago, evissy said:

This exact problem was with Jorginho. For Italy he was protected and his team mates sort of served him instead of everyone being of the same value to create/defend. This imbalance is between our 3 main midfielders. Caicedo and Gallagher should protect Enzo to have the freedom to create. This can be fixed with good coaching and minutes together on the pitch.

Jorginho problem is athleticism, as  long as you ask him to defend small area he is very good. 

Enzo on the other hand is 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫 defensively 

Edited February 3, 20242 yr by Bob stark

Poch has said they work hard on set pieces but lack the players able to deliver them.

So he is basically acknowledged me and @Munkunkuwhen we called for the signing of James Ward-Prowse! 

So the new narrative is the squad is not so much too young but too short. Pochettino and the 11 dwarves. Hey ho hey ho. 

Maybe work on improving the positioning of the players so we actually have a midfield instead of a defence, then caicedo, then an attack? Or work on some patterns. Or teach them how to defend, or shoot. Instead of moaning that the squad is too short and can't take corners.

It's depressing to think that within months of the takeover our club went from a regular top 4 spot and regular CL , to the worst Chelsea PL side in decades .

5 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Poch has said they work hard on set pieces but lack the players able to deliver them.

So he is basically acknowledged me and @Munkunkuwhen we called for the signing of James Ward-Prowse! 

 

5 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Poch has said they work hard on set pieces but lack the players able to deliver them.

So he is basically acknowledged me and @Munkunkuwhen we called for the signing of James Ward-Prowse! 

Did he really say that ?

He's having a laugh.... surely?

16 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

 

Did he really say that ?

He's having a laugh.... surely?

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2024/2/3/24060063/pochettino-chelsea-work-a-lot-on-set-pieces-but-need-better-quality-takers

 

While these statistics are not exactly easy to define (when does a set piece become open play, for example?), are by definition small samples, and are certainly not kept officially, FBref shows us as having given up five (5) goals from dead balls — joint second-highest in the Premier League — and having scored just three (3) goals of our own that were preceded by a dead ball action (i.e. free kicks, corners, throw-ins, goal kicks).

Anecdotally, we’re terrible at defending corners and free kicks (especially on a second ball) and we’re toothless on attacking corners and free kicks — certainly when reminiscing about the goal-scoring exploits of the likes of John Terry, Gary Cahill, Branislav Ivanović, and Marcos Alonso. They all averaged roughly 1-in-10 for their Chelsea careers, combining for over 150 total goals that seemed even more plentiful than that.

We’re often left to wonder what we might be doing on the training ground to address these shortcomings — emphasis on “short”, if you’re of certain tactical persuasions and beliefs — but Mauricio Pochettino assures that we’re indeed working hard on these things and it’s simply a question of quality rather than effort and intention.

“We work a lot on set-pieces. We have (coaching) specialists. We are a coaching staff in charge of everything. We have a group of analysts for set-pieces. After that, it is about the quality of the player. It is about the takers. We don’t have a specialist (player). Maybe Chilly is good in the delivery, but we don’t have a specialist after that.

“If you want to be good in set-pieces, we work a lot. But then you need good takers. When you have good takers, and of course, Wolves have good takers, and like Manchester City have, or other clubs. It is not down to the work. We work similarly, but the problem is to have good takers.

“Look before at West Ham, and after. What changed? After and before? It’s not the same. The taker is [James] Ward-Prowse. For sure, you can work, like West Ham were working. But now, you add a player like him, you increase the percentage. That is football. Football belongs to the players. Not to the (coaching) specialists.”

-Mauricio Pochettino; source: Metro

He even name drops JWP. 

Me and Munk were on the money!

So all you who poop pooped on the idea:

Edited February 3, 20242 yr by axman2526

22 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

He even name drops JWP. 

Me and Munk were on the money!

So all you who poop pooped on the idea:

Who else do you want to sign - Rory Delap?

Didn't realise we'd fallen as far as being a modern day Stoke City.

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

He even name drops JWP. 

Me and Munk were on the money!

So all you who poop pooped on the idea:

Doesn't Poch know that we are not allowed to buy a player who is 29 years old because of our self imposed age limit policy?

😁

Where can I see where Poch has said our players are too short ?