I don't know, but everytime Ba starts i have the feeling he is tired around the 60 minute mark. Maybe he has fitness issues.

 

Well a good way to build up fitness is to have a consistent run of games?

I don't know, but everytime Ba starts i have the feeling he is tired around the 60 minute mark. Maybe he has fitness issues.

I don't think there is any doubt about it, he looks knackered come the end of games.

In Jan we signed a fit, in form functioning striker and it was a joy to see a centre forward play for Chelsea who moved around and caused defenders issues.

Within a month he had been completey rotated out of form. I feel for him, he's a good player , not by any stretch of the imagination a long term fix but for the money we paid (like Cahill) i think he was a worthwhile signing. Sadly he has been handled badly in my view.

I'd be surprised if he starts on Wed. Bearing in mind 'Nando' is sure to start in Amsterdam it's likely to be Torres for Spurs and Ba for Villa. Wrong, in my opinion, rotation for rotations sake but the interim wont be able to help himself.

Based on games where both have been available for selection since ba signed it is currently 16-9 to ba on starts.......

Edited May 6, 201313 yr by Bluehatter

Well a good way to build up fitness is to have a consistent run of games?

i can understand if a player looks disjointed with the team, if he get only a run here and there. But knackered? I thought the match-fitness issue is only a problem for players, who came back from an injury and couldn't do some hard training for quite some time!

 

Anyway, this thread is not the place to discuss this. i only want to show that there may be some reasons why he get sub sometimes, without using any conspiracy theories about torres and how he runs the club :)

Based on games where both have been available for selection since ba signed it is currently 16-9 to ba on starts.......

That's interesting, I'm assuming doesn't include Europa matches? Thought it would be more even, still Ba should've started more if you ask me!

That's interesting, I'm assuming doesn't include Europa matches? Thought it would be more even, still Ba should've started more if you ask me!

Nope europa not included. Tbf to benitez the only game out of all those torres has started ahead of ba it's only really the liverpool and arsenal games I disagree with. The rest were against the likes of wigan and brentford etc

Nope europa not included. Tbf to benitez the only game out of all those torres has started ahead of ba it's only really the liverpool and arsenal games I disagree with. The rest were against the likes of wigan and brentford etc

What about the Swansea C1 Cup SF? On the back of a superb debut at Southampton in the FA Cup, Ba was dropped  so Torres could be recalled, only to be shocking, but he still wasn't subbed till 80+ minutes had gone.

What about the Swansea C1 Cup SF? On the back of a superb debut at Southampton in the FA Cup, Ba was dropped  so Torres could be recalled, only to be shocking, but he still wasn't subbed till 80+ minutes had gone.

Turned out to be a disaster starting torres in that one but I do recall thinking at the time it was the right thing to do and remember many felt the same. Then we found out afterwards that torres had been suffering from a stomach bug all week. Just one in a long list of howlers benitez has made since coming in november. First of all he shouldn't of started and second of all he should of been replaced after the first half if he was struggling that much because he was just dreadful in that game.

Nope europa not included. Tbf to benitez the only game out of all those torres has started ahead of ba it's only really the liverpool and arsenal games I disagree with. The rest were against the likes of wigan and brentford etc

 

Liverpool selection was shocking and thankfully looks like it's not going to cost us. If you remember, the Liverpool match was sandwiched between Fulham away (Torres got the nod) and Basel (Torres obviously). Inexplicably, Benitez ditched his rotation policy and gave Torres 3 in a row just so he could field him at Anfield, which was a massive game and a big test. Let's remember that Torres had had a mare at Fulham in the previous game and Ba had scored a cracker in his previous game at Wembley, proving once again that he can score against the big teams. Not only that but Torres stayed on for the duration at Anfield and Ba stayed on the bench, despite Torres having another mare. I know I've said it before but I truly believe the only logical conclusion I can come to is that Benitez wanted to be heralded as the only manager capable of getting Torres scoring against his former club (i.e. putting his own agenda before the interests of the club). For those of us that believe the team should always be picked on merit, it's these sort of selections that make us furious, and probably explains some of the anger that spills over on to here, and for which I admit I'm guilty. The subject of Torres makes me angry because I believe we've had much better strikers at the club who have had a raw deal as a consequence of his presence* and it's happening again with Ba. I mean, will Ba ever get three in a row under Benitez? No. He must be looking on from the bench wondering what the hell is going on. Following on from his great goal against Utd he repeats the feat against City, the best two teams in the country. His reward? He sits out the next two league games, despite the fact Torres also plays Thursday nights. If someone can explain that to me I'd be most grateful. 

 

* I include Kalou in that list, and I mean that.

On the subject of Torres making me angry, I'd like to apologise to you, Bluehatter, and also dkw and SP. I got rather feisty. I'm afraid the subject of Torres brings the worst out in me. I keep promising myself to stay away but I can't help myself. If it happens again just tell me to go and sit on the naughty step.

On the subject of Torres making me angry, I'd like to apologise to you, Bluehatter, and also dkw and SP. I got rather feisty. I'm afraid the subject of Torres brings the worst out in me. I keep promising myself to stay away but I can't help myself. If it happens again just tell me to go and sit on the naughty step.

No worries, We both have different opinions and perhaps both go a bit overboard sometimes but no one is getting hurt in the process so let's carry on.

Liverpool selection was shocking and thankfully looks like it's not going to cost us. If you remember, the Liverpool match was sandwiched between Fulham away (Torres got the nod) and Basel (Torres obviously). Inexplicably, Benitez ditched his rotation policy and gave Torres 3 in a row just so he could field him at Anfield, which was a massive game and a big test. Let's remember that Torres had had a mare at Fulham in the previous game and Ba had scored a cracker in his previous game at Wembley, proving once again that he can score against the big teams. Not only that but Torres stayed on for the duration at Anfield and Ba stayed on the bench, despite Torres having another mare. I know I've said it before but I truly believe the only logical conclusion I can come to is that Benitez wanted to be heralded as the only manager capable of getting Torres scoring against his former club (i.e. putting his own agenda before the interests of the club). For those of us that believe the team should always be picked on merit, it's these sort of selections that make us furious, and probably explains some of the anger that spills over on to here, and for which I admit I'm guilty. The subject of Torres makes me angry because I believe we've had much better strikers at the club who have had a raw deal as a consequence of his presence* and it's happening again with Ba. I mean, will Ba ever get three in a row under Benitez? No. He must be looking on from the bench wondering what the hell is going on. Following on from his great goal against Utd he repeats the feat against City, the best two teams in the country. His reward? He sits out the next two league games, despite the fact Torres also plays Thursday nights. If someone can explain that to me I'd be most grateful.

* I include Kalou in that list, and I mean that.

I'd agree with all of that, and i have stated a couple of times how shocked i was that Torres started against Liverpool, and not only started but got the full 90, when he had already played the full 90 in the game before, and had to play the full 90 in the next game. It was a bizarre decision. But Rafa has made a few.

He's going to play tomorrow isn't he?

 

You just know it.

 

If he does start I really, really hope hope Hazard is fit or otherwise we could look a bit toothless going forward. 

If he starts tomorrow then there are going to be a lot of recent Benitez converts who will have a lot of egg on their face.

I wouldnt be at all shocked to see him start tomorrow. Im actually more shocked when i see Ba start in games.

If we go with the rotation policy, then yes he will start tomorrow, however I would prefer to see Ba start and if needed bring Torres on.

 

I'd also like to see Ba start against Villa, but Torres will definately need some minutes in that game so he's not 'cold' going into the Europa final.

 

As Davey points out though this would mean that Ba would get the nod for 3 games in a row, and I don't believe that will happen.

On the subject of Torres making me angry, I'd like to apologise to you, Bluehatter, and also dkw and SP. I got rather feisty. I'm afraid the subject of Torres brings the worst out in me. I keep promising myself to stay away but I can't help myself. If it happens again just tell me to go and sit on the naughty step.

 

Davey you have your opinion and you're entitled to it, _{you're wrong of course}, but this is what the forum is all about.

 

Every now and then we all get a bit of a rant on, but as bluehatter says no-one is getting hurt and none of it's personal.

Torres will most probably be our top scorer in EL and he's been okay in the tournament. Our only choice for EL but it is hardly his fault.

Looks like Torres is a good tournament striker. Meaning if it starts well for him he will most likely score later as well. Same with Team Spain for him as well.

If only that was the case in the PL.

Don't know if he gets his fuel for scoring looking at the top scorers chart..?

No way Torres should start against Spurs. A Massive game, absolute must win. When does he ever turn up in these games? He hasn't scored in the PL since the 8-0 against Aston Villa, which was bloody months ago. Might even have been 2012 can't remember. Ba is much better.

Davey you have your opinion and you're entitled to it, _{you're wrong of course}, but this is what the forum is all about.

 

Every now and then we all get a bit of a rant on, but as bluehatter says no-one is getting hurt and none of it's personal.

 

Cheers mate. I look forward to us all falling out again on Wednesday night.

Torres will most probably be our top scorer in EL and he's been okay in the tournament. Our only choice for EL but it is hardly his fault.

Looks like Torres is a good tournament striker. Meaning if it starts well for him he will most likely score later as well. Same with Team Spain for him as well.

If only that was the case in the PL.

Don't know if he gets his fuel for scoring looking at the top scorers chart..?

 

As I mentioned earlier being top scorer in the Europa League doesn't mean very much, Massimo Maccarone was top scorer for Boro when they made the final - was left to leave on a free later that same year. 

On the subject of Torres making me angry, I'd like to apologise to you, Bluehatter, and also dkw and SP. I got rather feisty. I'm afraid the subject of Torres brings the worst out in me. I keep promising myself to stay away but I can't help myself. If it happens again just tell me to go and sit on the naughty step.

No worries matey, how could I not love a fellow Dave.

I see no reason why Ba and Torres can't start together.

I see no reason why Ba and Torres can't start together.

Both have failed in striking partnerships. Ba starts, along with the 3 amigos..

I'd go with Ba against Spuds, then if we win we go with Torres against Villa, if we lose/draw we go with Ba against Villa.

Pretty much if we confirm CL qualification Torres should probably be given some minutes ahead of the final, although not a whole game.