40 minutes ago, FLYMJ said:

Hate to say I told you so..

Ok, seeing as this is the thing people are going with today, let's throw in some comparisons. What bracket are we putting Hazard in ? Obviously not Messi or Ronaldo's level, those two player's will likely never be seen again, so a level lower right ? So that puts him on the level of Neymar, Bale, Sanchez, Aguero, Aubameyang, Griezmann, Lewandowski and a few others.

So Neymar, does he turn up to all of the big games ? Nope, he goes missing in a lot of them. I actually can't think of any big game he has turned up for this season. Maybe the comeback against PSG but he was only good in the last 10 minutes. He's had a pretty poor season for Barcelona this season.

Bale, another that has been accused regularly of going missing in his time with Real Madrid. I think the criticism he get's from Real fans is harsh, but he's no more consistent than Hazard, i would actually say he's less consistent than Hazard is.

Sanchez. Very hit and miss. Outside of the cup competitions, he hasn't performed well in many of the big games. Hazard performs more often in the big games than he does.

Aguero. Again, very hit and miss. He scores a lot of goals every season, but in the big moments where it really matters, he hasn't performed well or got the big goal. He has actually choked many times for City when they have desperately needed him to bail them out. He hasn't had a moment like that goal he scored against QPR since that day.

Aubameyang. Scores a lot of goals, probably doing as good as can be expected at Dortmund right now. Scored in the final of the cup today too.

Griezmann. I have seen quite a bit of him this season and he does tend to get a goal against big teams, but i don't think he dominates games or plays that well in them. He's actually quite anonymous most of the time.

Lewandowski. Brilliant striker that delivers in the big and not so big games.

 

So, what people accuse Hazard of is actually the same with pretty much all of the other players on his level. He's good in some big games, not so good in others, just like most of the players on his level. What we should be doing is looking to add to Hazard, not criticise him for not performing in some of the big games every season. We won't find any better or consistent players in the big games that's for sure.

Edited May 27, 20179 yr by Scott Harris

59 minutes ago, FLYMJ said:

Hate to say I told you so..

And then what's your bright solution? Should we sell him then? 

21 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Ok, seeing as this is the thing people are going with today, let's throw in some comparisons. What bracket are we putting Hazard in ? Obviously not Messi or Ronaldo's level, those two player's will likely never be seen again, so a level lower right ? So that puts him on the level of Neymar, Bale, Sanchez, Aguero, Aubameyang, Griezmann, Lewandowski and a few others.

So Neymar, does he turn up to all of the big games ? Nope, he goes missing in a lot of them. I actually can't think of any big game he has turned up for this season. Maybe the comeback against PSG but he was only good in the last 10 minutes. He's had a pretty poor season for Barcelona this season.

Bale, another that has been accused regularly of going missing in his time with Real Madrid. I think the criticism he get's from Real fans is harsh, but he's no more consistent than Hazard, i would actually say he's less consistent than Hazard is.

Sanchez. Very hit and miss. Outside of the cup competitions, he hasn't performed well in many of the big games. Hazard performs more often in the big games than he does.

Aguero. Again, very hit and miss. He scores a lot of goals every season, but in the big moments where it really matters, he hasn't performed well or got the big goal. He has actually choked many times for City when they have desperately needed him to bail them out. He hasn't had a moment like that goal he scored against QPR since that day.

Aubameyang. Scores a lot of goals, probably doing as good as can be expected at Dortmund right now. Scored in the final of the cup today too.

Griezmann. I have seen quite a bit of him this season and he does tend to get a goal against big teams, but i don't think he dominates games or plays that well in them. He's actually quite anonymous most of the time.

Lewandowski. Brilliant striker that delivers in the big and not so big games.

 

So, what people accuse Hazard of is actually the same with pretty much all of the other players on his level. He's good in some big games, not so good in others, just like most of the players on his level. What we should be doing is looking to add to Hazard, not criticise him for not performing in some of the big games every season. We won't find any better or consistent players in the big games that's for sure.

Even Drogba whose bread and butter was big games actually bottled some big games in his time. Didn't have too many good performances against United, often got snuffed out by Rio and Vidic. Went missing a few times against Liverpool as well. Got sent off foolishly in Moscow. 

It happens. 

Granted Hazard needs to be more consistent and more decisive, we also need to support him with another world class forward. 

There's a reason Ronaldo and Messi are in one class and the others are below them. They perform almost 100% of the time. You could say it's not human. That's why they're both top 5 in the history of the game. 

Hazard is obviously miles off that but like you said, so are a lot of others in his class.

Don't think he was a problem and he actually played better with Fabregas on the pitch. The issue we had was we had Matic & Kante in the middle of the park who were not comfortable in possession. 

I agree however that we need another match winner as Pedro doesn't do enough for me.

i didnt think he was that bad, he couldn't get on the ball in the first half because our midfield was getting overrun so he was feeding off whatever scraps we could get from courtouis hoofing it up the pitch or second phase from costa

second half he was a lot more involved but i felt our counterattacks weren't as effective as they should be.

we consistently countered with the same 3 (pedro/willian + costa + hazard) with moses joining in every now and then, normally kante would also take part in them too but he didn't seem to have the energy today as he had to cover so much ground defensively and got little to no help from matic......but back to the counter attacks -often the final pass was off, or arsenal for one reason or another(maybe having a back 3 helps with this) seemed to always get plenty of people back in formation in time while we were trying to counter.

Agree with Scott in regards to Hazard and consistency....people make it sound like Hazard is the most inconsistent player ever, every player in his bracket have the same issue - no single one of them is as consistent all the time. Hazard is what he is and at 26 he may not change. so instead of thinking he will, or that we should sell him, what we really need to do is compliment him with more quality players to take the burden off him. we know what he's capable of at his best, but if that's our only outlet from game to game then we won't be successful long term.

No Chelsea player did themselves justice yesterday but Hazard is our key player / match-winner / most valuable asset etc. so I'll have to be honest and admit he disappointed me more than anyone yesterday. There were times he had the ball in good positions and you thought, go on Eden rip them to pieces but he just didn't seem to have it in him. Was too happy to take the easy option and pass to a team-mate. Seems it was just one game too far for everyone yesterday. Let them enjoy their summer hols and come back even better for next season - Especially Hazard.

Edited May 28, 20179 yr by Nibs

44 minutes ago, Nibs said:

No Chelsea player did themselves justice yesterday but Hazard is our key player / match-winner / most valuable asset etc. so I'll have to be honest and admit he disappointed me more than anyone yesterday. There were times he had the ball in good positions and you thought, go on Eden rip them to pieces but he just didn't seem to have it in him. Was too happy to take the easy option and pass to a team-mate. Seems it was just one game too far for everyone yesterday. Let them enjoy their summer hols and come back even better for next season - Especially Hazard.

It's weird isn't it, he seems to have these games where he simply won't attack the full back/centre back in front of him, he just seems to lose confidence even if he's been on a fantastic run of games. I just don't understand it.

To me it seemed he always had a wall of Arsenal defenders in front of him yesterday and not a good opportunity to run at them. I noticed he also did not make the best choices with his passing yet was far from alone with that.

 In the players mentioned above there is one glaring omission for me and that is Suarez, not on the level of Messi and Ronaldo but on the next level certainly and better than most.

2 hours ago, dkw said:

It's weird isn't it, he seems to have these games where he simply won't attack the full back/centre back in front of him, he just seems to lose confidence even if he's been on a fantastic run of games. I just don't understand it.

This is the one bit of criticism about his game i can accept. When it comes to him not delivering in the big games, i just don't believe that is true, but there are times where i think he is holding back.

There is only one player better than Hazard at running at defenders and beating them, that is Messi. When i see Hazard running at defenders, stopping, and then passing backwards or sideways i am saying to myself, "why" ? He has defenders sh*tting themselves, you can tell by the way they are always backing off, he should take advantage of that more than he actually does. 9 times out of 10, Hazard has defenders exactly where he wants them, i just don't understand why he stops. Surely he realises that they can't tackle him, he's too quick and skillful with the ball at his feet. If he takes them on and they clip his leg, knee or foot, he's going to win a penalty. He's going to lose out to a defender now and again, but that's fine, with his skill it wouldn't happen a lot, and it's not like he has to deal with fullbacks like Ashley Cole every week  There aren't many fullbacks who could pocket wingers like Cole could.

I don't think this is a problem just with Hazard though, i think a few players at our club have this problem. So often i see our players wanting to run at players outside of the box. Hazard, Willian, Moses, Costa, they all want to run at players outside the area, but as soon as we get in the area, it's like they are afraid to lose the ball so end up tapping it around the area looking for a pass instead of taking on their man and creating or scoring a goal. When i see Willian run past 3 or 4 players when he is running with the ball out of defence, i end up wondering why he doesn't do that when taking on 1 fullback. If he can take it out of defence and run through a teams midfield, what is stopping him taking on a fullback ?

I think this is why a lot of Chelsea fans have grown so fond of Pedro. He doesn't have the ability to take on defenders as well as Hazard or Willian, but he doesn't half try. The guy is so direct, he's always running at players. If Hazard and Willian had a bit more of that in them, they would be unstoppable. We would have the two best wingers in world football.

2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

This is the one bit of criticism about his game i can accept. When it comes to him not delivering in the big games, i just don't believe that is true, but there are times where i think he is holding back.

There is only one player better than Hazard at running at defenders and beating them, that is Messi. When i see Hazard running at defenders, stopping, and then passing backwards or sideways i am saying to myself, "why" ? He has defenders sh*tting themselves, you can tell by the way they are always backing off, he should take advantage of that more than he actually does. 9 times out of 10, Hazard has defenders exactly where he wants them, i just don't understand why he stops. Surely he realises that they can't tackle him, he's too quick and skillful with the ball at his feet. If he takes them on and they clip his leg, knee or foot, he's going to win a penalty. He's going to lose out to a defender now and again, but that's fine, with his skill it wouldn't happen a lot, and it's not like he has to deal with fullbacks like Ashley Cole every week  There aren't many fullbacks who could pocket wingers like Cole could.

I don't think this is a problem just with Hazard though, i think a few players at our club have this problem. So often i see our players wanting to run at players outside of the box. Hazard, Willian, Moses, Costa, they all want to run at players outside the area, but as soon as we get in the area, it's like they are afraid to lose the ball so end up tapping it around the area looking for a pass instead of taking on their man and creating or scoring a goal. When i see Willian run past 3 or 4 players when he is running with the ball out of defence, i end up wondering why he doesn't do that when taking on 1 fullback. If he can take it out of defence and run through a teams midfield, what is stopping him taking on a fullback ?

I think this is why a lot of Chelsea fans have grown so fond of Pedro. He doesn't have the ability to take on defenders as well as Hazard or Willian, but he doesn't half try. The guy is so direct, he's always running at players. If Hazard and Willian had a bit more of that in them, they would be unstoppable. We would have the two best wingers in world football.

 I think Hazard can sometimes be a bit too calculated when deciding what to do with the ball.

I do sometimes wish he would try and force the issue a bit more. Try things that might not work 9 or 8 out of 10 times. 

 

1 hour ago, Hazard10 said:

 I think Hazard can sometimes be a bit too calculated when deciding what to do with the ball.

I do sometimes wish he would try and force the issue a bit more. Try things that might not work 9 or 8 out of 10 times. 

 

you're correct - he plays the percentages too much

i remember watching him at lille and while he wouldn't necessarily hog the ball, he was definitely willing to dribble more rather than play the pass. didnt always work out but when it did...oh boy. I think gradually over time, that side of his play has been coached out of him so he could be more of a team player.

chelsea fans have often debated in the past on forums that hazard just needs to get 'aggressive' and be more 'selfish' - i just think that, that's not in his character right now and maybe if it was when he was younger, he's definitely changed since then.

I like percentages, we have too many player's in the squad who have turnover's as a key signature dish as it is. Imagine these last few years without Hazard? He has carried us offensively and at times been the only reason we got into the oppositions box (bit of an effect exaggeration but you know what i mean). Constructive critique like dcw gave above is fine, but people who go out of there way to criticise him deserved Kalouda. 

I'd like to see Hazard hit one with his left foot from 30 yards into the top corner again like he did in his first season with us. Like many have mentioned, i think he was coached into taking less risks in his game. 

i can't blame him when he passes it to costa, costa tries to beat his man and loses possession. hazard puts a ball in, nobody is there to attack it. he passes it to matic or kante they're reluctant to shoot. he passes to alonso, he passes it back. what other choices does he have? others around him need to start helping him out in offence. the only guy who does it is pedro and he plays on the opposite wing. i have exaggerated a bit there, but he does need others around him to give him the confidence his chance creating will lead to goals otherwise i think he just finds it pointless. i too would be frustrated if i was him. even ronaldo, messi, robben etc have people around them to ease the pressure off them and create or score goals they create.  

I think Hazard should stay, regardless of that FA Cup game of his.

9 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I'd like to see Hazard hit one with his left foot from 30 yards into the top corner again like he did in his first season with us. Like many have mentioned, i think he was coached into taking less risks in his game. 

I don't know why but his shooting from distance hasn't been as strong as it was. He had a great goalscoring season especially when you consider only 2 of his goals were pens. 

it's frustrating at times with hazard, because you know that he is capable of scoring a screamer with either foot from distance, you know he is capable of either beating a defender, or drawing a foul, but there are times when you see him with a bit of space or one on one with a defender in the area, and instead of going for the jugular, he will play it safe and keep possession. 

It would be interesting if we signed another top class attacking midfielder, whether it would encourage him to take more risks, with us being less reliant on him to produce that spark. I don't think he deals with the responsibility as well as some other top players, maybe captaining the national team will help him in that respect. 

I still love watching him play though and if this is his peak, I would take it all day long. One of the best players ive seen in a chelsea shirt. I hope he's here for another 5 years. 

1 hour ago, big blue said:

It would be interesting if we signed another top class attacking midfielder, whether it would encourage him to take more risks, with us being less reliant on him to produce that spark. I don't think he deals with the responsibility as well as some other top players, maybe captaining the national team will help him in that respect. 

I still love watching him play though and if this is his peak, I would take it all day long. One of the best players ive seen in a chelsea shirt. I hope he's here for another 5 years. 

This is one of the reasons I was dismayed at our sale of Mata; I felt that he facilitated Hazard's attacking play and freedom. He was the one controlling the game and the one opposition would watch most closesly, and he seemed to encourage Hazard with little passes as if to say "here you go, enjoy". Sort of like Xavi would do in Messi's early years.

I know Hazard had his best seasons after we sold Mata, but he was different - he was having to do a lot more and had nobody to combine with until we got Fabregas.

 

Edit: my favourite example of this: 

 

Edited May 30, 20179 yr by Samdwich

Mata was great but in essence he was a luxury player we couldn't afford to play if we wanted to be at the top. He lacked the tools we required at the time and his free role while being exciting to watch hampered us at other times. That being said I was annoyed we choose to stick with Oscar and sell Mata who was clearly the better an more dangerous player.

We or should I say Jose put a fair few of his eggs in the Oscar basket  (Mata, KDB) and it really was the wrong decision.

32 minutes ago, Samdwich said:

This is one of the reasons I was dismayed at our sale of Mata; I felt that he facilitated Hazard's attacking play and freedom. He was the one controlling the game and the one opposition would watch most closesly, and he seemed to encourage Hazard with little passes as if to say "here you go, enjoy". Sort of like Xavi would do in Messi's early years.

I know Hazard had his best seasons after we sold Mata, but he was different - he was having to do a lot more and had nobody to combine with until we got Fabregas.

 

Edit: my favourite example of this: 

 

When I wrote that, it was mata's influence I had in mind! I didn't want to start an old argument about whether it was right or wrong to sell him tbh. 

Mata was a luxury player in many ways as Chelsbear said. I think that hazard could do with a another playmaker in there, as he is the playmaker, the creator, and the player we want to score goals, it's a very big ask. Obviously it's a little easier for him when fabregas plays, and Costa is on form. He has little more freedom. I wouldn't be against signing james rodriguez, especially if fabregas is going to continue as an impact player.

The only outlet hazard has when fabregas isn't on the pitch is Pedro.  Pedro is the only other creator we have of the regular starters.  

Imminent £100 million bid for Eden, all over the back pages offered tops,  130, or Bale and Varane!!

Edited May 31, 20179 yr by Ballack & Blu

We don't have to sell.

We must have about 250 odd million kicking about from recent sales and sponsorships from last season.  

The only way you sell is to replace with similar or better and there is no one available that meets that next to Eden. 

Swap deals rarely happen if at all these days so the Bale Varane thing is rubbish, that's not going to happen.  Real want to strengthen not weaken.

Out of interest, would anyone want us to sell Hazard for £100m and if so, who would we replace him with?

That fee is too small going by recent deals.

If Bale was 90 odd 3 years ago and Pogba was 80 last season then I'd be expecting over 100 million for Eden.

That said whats the point in selling if we don't require the money and he's tied down for a few years? It would show a lack of ambition on our part losing by far our best player who is obviously irreplaceable in the current market of players.

It's unthinkable tbh. 

4 minutes ago, The Brit said:

Out of interest, would anyone want us to sell Hazard for £100m and if so, who would we replace him with?

Nope, i don't care what offer comes in, i don't want us to sell him. I don't think he can be replaced. We should be adding players to the squad, not replace them.