30 minutes ago, Argo said:

Well unlike the supposed greatest keeper ever, he corrected himself ontime.

Are you having a dig at 

 

31 minutes ago, Argo said:

Well unlike the supposed greatest keeper ever, he corrected himself ontime.

Are you seriously having a dig at peaktine Cech? Courtious isn't fit to lace the boots of pre head injury Cechl

7 minutes ago, Dixon said:

Are you having a dig at 

 

Are you seriously having a dig at peaktine Cech? Courtious isn't fit to lace the boots of pre head injury Cechl

Last time i checked Petr wasn't playing at this world cup.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

why?

Hugely overrated...

14 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Hugely overrated...

He isn't and we will soon realize that if he goes.

3 hours ago, Argo said:

He isn't and we will soon realize that if he goes.

We noticed when Willy had a few games last season, he doesn’t have to leave!

5 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

We noticed when Willy had a few games last season, he doesn’t have to leave!

Or Begovic the season before.

His keeping ability is close to if not the best in the league yes his technical ability isn't but in terms of keeping the ball out of the net there isn't many better  

8 hours ago, Argo said:

He isn't and we will soon realize that if he goes.

Not if we get Allison or any other normal first 11 quality keeper.

If you look at Japan's first goal it clearly shows the flaws in Courtois game, which he has never been able to eradicate. He uses an inefficient level of energy in that he doesn't push off with his feet and pounce towards low shots. His first movement is an upwards movement of his legs. The result is that in trying to make a save his legs end up higher than the rest of his body, leaving clear daylight between his core and the ground and because of the inefficient use of energy his arm/hand movement towards the ball is invariable insufficient.

If you look at the first Japanese goal, in diving for the ball his hand does not move towards the ball, even though he is stretching, by more than a small step's distance.

Goalkeepers on this forum at any level will tell you that the first things you are taught as a goalie is to be able to collapse your legs under you and to develop the skill of being able to "bounce" off your upper thigh/cheeks of your at$e as a recovery. Sometimes it is impossible to move your feet quickly enough to cover the ground hence why you must be able to pounce and collapse your legs, narrowing the gap between your body and the ground as quickly as possible.

He is incapable of doing this and before the responses come though that what should I expect he is 6 foot 6, I'm sorry that doesn't wash. They are all that size now. Good old Uncle Pete never hopped up in the air when diving for a the ball. None of the other do. Even stiff old ironing board Fraser Forster collapses to bottom corner shots.

Okay hopping up might be a bit of an exaggeration but you get my drift and this is the main reason why I just don't rate him over a surprisingly large number of apparently inferior goalkeepers. He does the things he is expected to pretty well. He is 6 foot 6, he should be able to come for crosses, catch high balls and reach top corner shots. But any low corner shot and he is vulnerable and his distribution, whilst improving, still leaves a lot to be desired.

Even those of you that are fans of Courtois must surely concede that he really hasn't developed greatly and realized the potential that he had as a youngster on loan in Madrid. If we could get good money for him I am all for a better ball playing goalkeeper, but please no more clowns.

I don't doubt that Tibo is a good goal keeper, but he's certainly replaceable.  I hate his level of uncertainty and each morning is like he's asking teams from Madrid to come sign him!  It's either I love Madrid weather, my kids in Madrid, Spain is the best country etc.  Either bring your family over our just f*** off!  We can replace the dude with better or same level keeper who are happy to be in London! 

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

If you look at Japan's first goal it clearly shows the flaws in Courtois game, which he has never been able to eradicate. He uses an inefficient level of energy in that he doesn't push off with his feet and pounce towards low shots. His first movement is an upwards movement of his legs. The result is that in trying to make a save his legs end up higher than the rest of his body, leaving clear daylight between his core and the ground and because of the inefficient use of energy his arm/hand movement towards the ball is invariable insufficient.

If you look at the first Japanese goal, in diving for the ball his hand does not move towards the ball, even though he is stretching, by more than a small step's distance.

Goalkeepers on this forum at any level will tell you that the first things you are taught as a goalie is to be able to collapse your legs under you and to develop the skill of being able to "bounce" off your upper thigh/cheeks of your at$e as a recovery. Sometimes it is impossible to move your feet quickly enough to cover the ground hence why you must be able to pounce and collapse your legs, narrowing the gap between your body and the ground as quickly as possible.

He is incapable of doing this and before the responses come though that what should I expect he is 6 foot 6, I'm sorry that doesn't wash. They are all that size now. Good old Uncle Pete never hopped up in the air when diving for a the ball. None of the other do. Even stiff old ironing board Fraser Forster collapses to bottom corner shots.

Okay hopping up might be a bit of an exaggeration but you get my drift and this is the main reason why I just don't rate him over a surprisingly large number of apparently inferior goalkeepers. He does the things he is expected to pretty well. He is 6 foot 6, he should be able to come for crosses, catch high balls and reach top corner shots. But any low corner shot and he is vulnerable and his distribution, whilst improving, still leaves a lot to be desired.

Even those of you that are fans of Courtois must surely concede that he really hasn't developed greatly and realized the potential that he had as a youngster on loan in Madrid. If we could get good money for him I am all for a better ball playing goalkeeper, but please no more clowns.

He ain't a super goalkeeper.  He concedes long range shots that I think he should save.  He has the odd mistake.  But this is okay - what's not okay is that he whinges every day about Madrid etc.  The dude can just go!! 

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

If you look at Japan's first goal it clearly shows the flaws in Courtois game, which he has never been able to eradicate. He uses an inefficient level of energy in that he doesn't push off with his feet and pounce towards low shots. His first movement is an upwards movement of his legs. The result is that in trying to make a save his legs end up higher than the rest of his body, leaving clear daylight between his core and the ground and because of the inefficient use of energy his arm/hand movement towards the ball is invariable insufficient.

If you look at the first Japanese goal, in diving for the ball his hand does not move towards the ball, even though he is stretching, by more than a small step's distance.

Goalkeepers on this forum at any level will tell you that the first things you are taught as a goalie is to be able to collapse your legs under you and to develop the skill of being able to "bounce" off your upper thigh/cheeks of your at$e as a recovery. Sometimes it is impossible to move your feet quickly enough to cover the ground hence why you must be able to pounce and collapse your legs, narrowing the gap between your body and the ground as quickly as possible.

He is incapable of doing this and before the responses come though that what should I expect he is 6 foot 6, I'm sorry that doesn't wash. They are all that size now. Good old Uncle Pete never hopped up in the air when diving for a the ball. None of the other do. Even stiff old ironing board Fraser Forster collapses to bottom corner shots.

Okay hopping up might be a bit of an exaggeration but you get my drift and this is the main reason why I just don't rate him over a surprisingly large number of apparently inferior goalkeepers. He does the things he is expected to pretty well. He is 6 foot 6, he should be able to come for crosses, catch high balls and reach top corner shots. But any low corner shot and he is vulnerable and his distribution, whilst improving, still leaves a lot to be desired.

Even those of you that are fans of Courtois must surely concede that he really hasn't developed greatly and realized the potential that he had as a youngster on loan in Madrid. If we could get good money for him I am all for a better ball playing goalkeeper, but please no more clowns.

Fair point. I agree he has issues on aspects of basic goalkeeping, I'm actually worried about your last sentence. I'm fine with selling Courtois for good money if the contract negotiations won't budge but only if the replacement isn't a "clown".

edit: goddamn autocorrect

Edited July 4, 20188 yr by Deino

Sorry the clown reference was to Willy actually, who has some positive characteristics but scares the sh*t out of me most games. He reminds me of me as a footballer. In my head I think I can do all these things but in reality I really can't!!

1 hour ago, dhidza said:

He ain't a super goalkeeper.  He concedes long range shots that I think he should save.  He has the odd mistake.  But this is okay - what's not okay is that he whinges every day about Madrid etc.  The dude can just go!! 

Problem is Madrid don’t want him. Navas is a better player, and they tried signing Kepa & previously De Gea. They have been also been linked to Allison, but I can’t remember them wanting Courtois. 

If he really wants to go to Spain, a swap deal with Atletico for Oblak won’t be the worst idea.

I personally think Navas is a so so keeper, one of Madrid's weak spots. Watching La Liga last season he had some awful games...more than a few

I think Tibo is a much better keeper.

 

22 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Problem is Madrid don’t want him. Navas is a better player, and they tried signing Kepa & previously De Gea. They have been also been linked to Allison, but I can’t remember them wanting Courtois. 

If he really wants to go to Spain, a swap deal with Atletico for Oblak won’t be the worst idea.

While that is an amazing scenario, I can’t see Atletico giving us the better contract for one with less to run on their contract.

Real will not going to get De Gea off United, so Courtios would be the next best thing if they don't want spend a fortune. They will hold all the leverage in negotiation, we be lucky to get 20M unless Courtois is willing to go to another City.

With Coirtois almost certain to leave soon. How would people feel about Pickford? He's young, English and improving. He also has some exerpience playing out from the back, as England have been doing it a lot recently. He could be one for the next 10 years or so.

4 minutes ago, Zeta said:

With Coirtois almost certain to leave soon. How would people feel about Pickford? He's young, English and improving. He also has some exerpience playing out from the back, as England have been doing it a lot recently. He could be one for the next 10 years or so.

I would rather have Alisson but the homegrown aspect does make Pickford an intriguing option. Would Everton sell him to us though?  I’m sure they would want a ridiculous fee now that he is England’s first choice keeper.

Alisson looks bad to me, I think he'd be a mistake like Bravo at City.

People think Alisson can replace Courtois pmsl. The bloke has next to no handling and parries the majority of his saves back into the danger area. Over rated because he makes average saves look hard. Lets pray we can convince Courtois to stay.

7 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

If you look at Japan's first goal it clearly shows the flaws in Courtois game, which he has never been able to eradicate. He uses an inefficient level of energy in that he doesn't push off with his feet and pounce towards low shots. His first movement is an upwards movement of his legs. The result is that in trying to make a save his legs end up higher than the rest of his body, leaving clear daylight between his core and the ground and because of the inefficient use of energy his arm/hand movement towards the ball is invariable insufficient.

If you look at the first Japanese goal, in diving for the ball his hand does not move towards the ball, even though he is stretching, by more than a small step's distance.

Goalkeepers on this forum at any level will tell you that the first things you are taught as a goalie is to be able to collapse your legs under you and to develop the skill of being able to "bounce" off your upper thigh/cheeks of your at$e as a recovery. Sometimes it is impossible to move your feet quickly enough to cover the ground hence why you must be able to pounce and collapse your legs, narrowing the gap between your body and the ground as quickly as possible.

He is incapable of doing this and before the responses come though that what should I expect he is 6 foot 6, I'm sorry that doesn't wash. They are all that size now. Good old Uncle Pete never hopped up in the air when diving for a the ball. None of the other do. Even stiff old ironing board Fraser Forster collapses to bottom corner shots.

Okay hopping up might be a bit of an exaggeration but you get my drift and this is the main reason why I just don't rate him over a surprisingly large number of apparently inferior goalkeepers. He does the things he is expected to pretty well. He is 6 foot 6, he should be able to come for crosses, catch high balls and reach top corner shots. But any low corner shot and he is vulnerable and his distribution, whilst improving, still leaves a lot to be desired.

Even those of you that are fans of Courtois must surely concede that he really hasn't developed greatly and realized the potential that he had as a youngster on loan in Madrid. If we could get good money for him I am all for a better ball playing goalkeeper, but please no more clowns.

You are right he could be a lot better in that regard but ultimately is that any different to say De Gea being allergic to coming off his line? There's many tall keepers that don't command his area even half aswell, he basically runs his own air traffic control area.

I do agree however with distribution and that could be an issue under Sarri, but then again Tibo isn't as disposable as Hart was.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

You are right he could be a lot better in that regard but ultimately is that any different to say De Gea being allergic to coming off his line? There's many tall keepers that don't command his area even half aswell, he basically runs his own air traffic control area.

I do agree however with distribution and that could be an issue under Sarri, but then again Tibo isn't as disposable as Hart was.

Even the last minute Belgium goal against Japan was due to him catching a speculative cross and immediately starting the attack. Would any other keeper be able to do that?

You can argue about the goals conceded but he's always been weak at low shots.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

You are right he could be a lot better in that regard but ultimately is that any different to say De Gea being allergic to coming off his line? There's many tall keepers that don't command his area even half aswell, he basically runs his own air traffic control area.

I do agree however with distribution and that could be an issue under Sarri, but then again Tibo isn't as disposable as Hart was.

I don’t get this at all, it’s Tibo who refuses to come out and command his area. I’ve screamed at him for it dozens of times. 

35 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

I don’t get this at all, it’s Tibo who refuses to come out and command his area. I’ve screamed at him for it dozens of times. 

We seem to see it differently because i recall many times he's plucked it out of the sky, also i think Tibo has only conceded 3 goals from set pieces in the box during the entirety of Conte's tenure and i can't recall many near misses either.

He had a little wobble under Hiddink but beyond that i don't think i have ever felt so relaxed when we defend set pieces.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

We seem to see it differently because i recall many times he's plucked it out of the sky, also i think Tibo has only conceded 3 goals from set pieces in the box during the entirety of Conte's tenure and i can't recall many near misses either.

He had a little wobble under Hiddink but beyond that i don't think i have ever felt so relaxed when we defend set pieces.

Goalkeeping has changed in a number of areas nowadays which sadly idiot commentators and pundits talk complete and utter bollox about. Mainly beciae they have no experinec in this area. It would be really refreshing if Peter Cech became a panel pundit when he retired from playing as he truly knows the job inside out and is a very eloquent speaker.

Coming for crosses is one such area. Goalkeepers no longer tower above a number of the players and zonal marking at corners can also create crowded areas. Therefore if a keeper has good reactions and pouncing ability it is not always necessary to come for balls that a) might be missed altogether or b) gathered and dropped due to interference. A keeper that can react quickly during a second phase of play doesn't need to commit to the riskier course of overreaching in traffic. You'd also be surprised how few corners result in shots on target. Therefore the safer course is to stay on your line and let the defence deal with the crosses.

This is a similar point in the catching versus punching debate which is a simple case that the lower risk approach is to punch or parry balls at an angle out of the danger zone, rather than catching and risk dropping or fumbling. 

As i said in the my original email Courtois does pretty much all of the standard stuff that he is supposed to do, but he has some fatal flaws that ultimately cost us an always will.

Somebody made the point about Pickford who could be an alternative. I still get the feeling that the ball playing aspect isn't totally natural for him. He does it and he is pretty good at it, but it doesn't look to be a natural part of his play. It is something that he works at. Butland is a similar type of player and is probably more available. But i get the impression if we get sarri, and i am no longer convinced we will any more, he will want a keeper whose first reaction is to play the ball out or clip it out to the wings.

Personally I would welcome Schmeichel. He has grown up a lot, he is no longer trying to be his dad, with the star jumping at every shot, good reactions, spring and natural pounce instincts and comfortable on the ball. He still has some rickets in him but a better defence in front of him would help develop his ability even further. 31 is not old for a keeper, he is just hitting his prime.