As much as there are at times some extremely negative reactions to bad results and performance and what not in the forum, it's weird how it's the extremely strong reactions to that negativity that end up looking worse. Whether it's name calling or the kind of almost politician like denial that anything at all is even remotely wrong can end up making the 'sack the manager/sell the player' rants look either reasonable or closer to the actual true state of affairs.

It's probably fair to say that it's too soon to fire Sarri or sell Hazard, but it's not unreasonable to point out that things haven't recently been going as smoothly as could reasonably been expected or hoped for. It's not exactly a huge leap of faith to imagine that all is not perfectly well in SW6 (as usual). Manager, players or a deeper club issue at fault? Probably a good mix of them all, but knowing us, we'll still end up with a trophy somehow or other.

There seems to be so little middle ground discussion nowadays. Quote a carefully selected statistic and call someone a dick.

3 hours ago, abramovich said:

I don't want him sacked. First of all, I don't see who we're going to replace him with. Second, I want to give the man a chance to build something. Remove the players he doesn't rate, buy those he wants and let's see if his second season is a significant improvement on his first. I can tolerate some setbacks as long as I know we're improving and truly creating a side worth waiting for. Nothing worth having comes easily. If we need to suffer before we get to something good, I'm OK with that, but I need to believe he's the man to take us there. The board, the owner, the fans and, most importantly, the players have to believe it.

What really scares me about Sarri is his inability to adapt. Conte adapted and won the league. By all accounts, he wasn't the most popular man in the dressing room, but he clearly knew what he was doing. So when Sarri says, I have trouble motivating this group, that sounds odd to me. There are PL and CL winners in this group. You won f**k all. Perhaps it's not your lack of motivational skills but rather your inability to properly use the talent at your disposal is what causes all these problems.

As for sacking managers early, what about AVB and Scolari? You don't really think we needed to keep them a bit longer, do you, Yorkley? More like we shouldn't have hired them in the first place. I'd absolutely stick with Sarri in hope he'll draw the right conclusions from his first season's troubles, but I have to say, I still have serious doubts about him.

Then why did we hire them if we weren't even planning on giving them a chance? 

The way the players turned on AVB was a disgrace btw, I still stand by that today, Lampard's behaviour surprised me the most. As bad as AVB was you always play for the gaffer regardless, you don't go off gobsh*ting about him and playing badly on purpose. 

I think many others like Yorkley are more concerned with player power and how much pressure we put on managers here because of our trigger happy reputation, I could be wrong but that's my feelings on it anyway. 

1 hour ago, Semper Fi said:

“sAcK tHe mAnAgEr”..... man some of yall act like cretins. For every manager, the same  people come out of their crevice hell holes looking for the managers head, always at the first sign of trouble. Yall just want  a new manager in so you can start crawling and moaning about sacking him too. 

Piss off to the hell holes you crawled out of. 

You always unnecessarily take things to another level don't you... It's odd how you act so sanctimonious on every subject while always having the need to insult people to get your point across. 

17 minutes ago, Slojo said:

You always unnecessarily take things to another level don't you... It's odd how you act so sanctimonious on every subject while always having the need to insult people to get your point across. 

The only people who would get offended by my OP, are ones feeling guilty on doing it themselves. Where Im from, Ill call out the BS. Theres nothing sanctimonious about it. If you feel otherwise, utilize the ignore function and add me to it. 

2 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Not so much a defence of AVB but there's an irony to calling him a manager of "all style and no substance" when our current manager has the term "Sarri-ball" coined about him and his playing style despite never having won anything. 

The term is just some sort of lazy gutter rag nonsense coined by our wonderful "journalistic" press because they didn't understand what Sarrismo meant, or realised their meathead readers wouldn't.  I don't think you can genuinely criticise the bloke for that,  and be considered rational.

3 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

The term is just some sort of lazy gutter rag nonsense coined by our wonderful "journalistic" press

call it what you want... I'm positive this isn't what Sarri wants. Azpi was the farthest forward wide player on the right all game.

The front 3 are completely static without the ball in the final 3rd. I'm positive Sarri ball isn't "find one of the wingers and watch him take on 3 players"

There's no movement on offense or defense. 

I've used a lot of basketball references when trying to describe this team. One of them is the old 4-Corners offense. There wasn't always a shot clock, so if a team got a lead, they would put 4 players in each corner of the court and pass around the perimeter to kill time. Tell me that doesn't look like what we're doing a lot of the time.

When we are showing a little more attacking threat, it's completely individual. It's dribbling and take-ons against a packed back line. Reminds me of basketball again... isolation. Except in basketball, any contact sends your best player to the free throw line. In football, it's just banging your head into a wall. 

The lack of movement in the attacking third with or without the ball is not was Sarri's philosophy is all about. 

just painful to watch right now.

56 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Who exactly are you referring to here?

 

Some people have to be over dramatic.

 

Klopp's Liverpool finished 8th in his first season at the helm. What happened next? Club backed him, got rid of the deadwood and now they are serious contenders.

God only knows the reaction we'd get on here if we're in a similar position come the end of the season.

2 minutes ago, Amputechture said:

Klopp's Liverpool finished 8th in his first season at the helm. What happened next? Club backed him, got rid of the deadwood and now they are serious contenders.

God only knows the reaction we'd get on here if we're in a similar position come the end of the season.

I'm all for giving sarri time, but klopp took over Liverpool in about october/November after they were towards the bottom half of the league. 

They came 4th in his first full season. 

Still hope for sarri yet. My biggest worry would be if we got a 2 year transfer ban, because this team is well short at the moment. 

11 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

The lack of movement in the attacking third with or without the ball is not was Sarri's philosophy is all about. 

So why does it keep happening, then? Is it manager's inability to implement his own system in a new club or is it the players' fault? 

Genuine question from someone who mostly watched Sarri's Napoli on youtube.

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

The players lost us the game last night, not Sarri. Heads dropped after one goal. We followed Sarri's game plan and ideally we should have been 1-0 through Kante. Instead we conceded and instead of fighting back and sticking to the game plan that had already created a clear cut chance, they gave up and the sh*t show followed. Its a weak mentality from the players that has been around for a while.

But you could argue it's always the players who lose the game as they're the ones out on the pitch. What the majority of us are finding increasingly frustrating and worrying is that this pattern is repeating itself over & over again but what is Sarri doing about it? Nothing. We go behind in a game, we lose - simple as that. Players drop their heads, are mentally weak, flakey, whatever, but that is Sarri's job to put right but no, next game or the game after, the same system is used, the same outcome and he just sits there, scribbling notes and chewing on his fag butt.

 

13 minutes ago, Amputechture said:

Klopp's Liverpool finished 8th in his first season at the helm. What happened next? Club backed him, got rid of the deadwood and now they are serious contenders.

God only knows the reaction we'd get on here if we're in a similar position come the end of the season.

Klopp was a highly sort after coach who had already had success in Germany. It would be great if Sarri was the calibre of Klopp, they do have some similarities, but I see Klopp as a coach who is flexible and adapts his tactics and doesn't keep selecting the same players when they are bang out of form. Right now I just don't have any faith in Sarri and he has a lot of work to do over the next few weeks to change that view.

 

Edited January 31, 20197 yr by Nibs

1 minute ago, abramovich said:

So why does it keep happening, then? Is it manager's inability to implement his own system in a new club or is it the players' fault?

Old dogs, new tricks... and a delicate roster situation. I'm positive the board didn't want to rock the boat too much while negotiating with Hazard and half the team in open revolt after Conte., So there was very little turnover in the squad.

Part of the problem was no-preseason. With guys like Bakayoko and Batshuayi, it was easy to see that their skill set wasn't going to fit the system and they were sent out immediately. Players with technical skills take more time to learn about. 

I have a saying when scouting players... "You can't measure a player's heart, but you can damn sure tell if he has one or not"

about 3 years ago watching Arsenal, I asked my best friend.. who goes to war for your team? Who can you count on to fight? I see a lot of skill, I don't see any heart. We had Cahill, Azpi, Matic, Kante, Moses, Costa, all players that I knew were going to fight... how about now? Kante and Azpi? 

This team has gotten old. Morata and Bakayoko were supposed to replace two of those warriors. They aren't even in the team any more. 

I don't blame the players for being who they are

I don't blame the manager for giving it a go with who he had.

I do blame the manager for not correcting mistakes sooner. For not promoting healthy competition for spots. For not creating an atmosphere of competition in the club. 

I will blame the board if this is not addressed HEAVILY in the summer.

I've said all year that there is going to be a MASSIVE turnover in 12 months. Several players are already gone, and I still feel like 3/4th of this list that started the season won't be here next August

Fabergas
Bakayoko
Morata
Batshuayi
Drinkwater
Cahill
Moses
Willian
Pedro
Luiz
Zappacosta
Hazard

56 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Then why did we hire them if we weren't even planning on giving them a chance? 

The way the players turned on AVB was a disgrace btw, I still stand by that today, Lampard's behaviour surprised me the most. As bad as AVB was you always play for the gaffer regardless, you don't go off gobsh*ting about him and playing badly on purpose. 

I think many others like Yorkley are more concerned with player power and how much pressure we put on managers here because of our trigger happy reputation, I could be wrong but that's my feelings on it anyway. 

All clubs make mistakes hiring wrong managers from time to time. There are few exceptions where managers stay on for many years, but in most cases those tenures don't last longer than three-four years, at best.

We're infamous for our revolving door policy, but to be fair, we've also been the most successful English club since Roman took over back in 2003. Perhaps this ability to remain fairly successful and competitive over the years gave the board/the owner this false impression that this type of ruthless club management is the way to go, if you want results, despite obvious downsides and negativity that comes with it.

8 minutes ago, big blue said:

I'm all for giving sarri time, but klopp took over Liverpool in about october/November after they were towards the bottom half of the league.  

They came 4th in his first full season.  

Still hope for sarri yet. My biggest worry would be if we got a 2 year transfer ban, because this team is well short at the moment.  

If he would have lost the finals he lose with them, here with Chelsea, you all would have wanted his head, long time ago.

We are at cup Final, standing at 5th with exactly the same points with Arsenal at 4th place, people are calling for manager head, only 6 months after we already sack a world class manager.

There isn`t other word then spoiled kids for such a people.

What was you expecting with the players and selection we have, as well as with the time we appoint our new manager? First place finish ? 10 points ahead of everyone at this point ?

We started better then i have ever expected, there is just better team then ours. And not only by players, but by a lot other factors. As much as manager time given, support showed for them, project they have, and a lot other stuffs, people forget to put into the equation.

How exactly you want me to take some opinion serious, where exactly the same people was calling for Conte head and swear at Sarri, and that he is a world class coach, and how much better Napoli played then us, yet they have a lot worst player then us.

Didn`t i forsee this coming? Didn`t i see this exactly thing will happen ? Of course i`m going to mock them now.

 

 

 

Is it really the managers fault or an issue with the players? We've seen them absolutely crumble when things don't go our way. When we had Terry, Lampard, Drogba etc that never happened. Now that leadership in the squad isn't there. Really if it is a problem of motivating the players, stop playing some of them. I'm afraid we've entered some kind of loop paradox where we expect things to change without really changing anything.

39 minutes ago, loshlosh said:

If he would have lost the finals he lose with them, here with Chelsea, you all would have wanted his head, long time ago.

We are at cup Final, standing at 5th with exactly the same points with Arsenal at 4th place, people are calling for manager head, only 6 months after we already sack a world class manager.

There isn`t other word then spoiled kids for such a people.

What was you expecting with the players and selection we have, as well as with the time we appoint our new manager? First place finish ? 10 points ahead of everyone at this point ?

We started better then i have ever expected, there is just better team then ours. And not only by players, but by a lot other factors. As much as manager time given, support showed for them, project they have, and a lot other stuffs, people forget to put into the equation.

How exactly you want me to take some opinion serious, where exactly the same people was calling for Conte head and swear at Sarri, and that he is a world class coach, and how much better Napoli played then us, yet they have a lot worst player then us.

Didn`t i forsee this coming? Didn`t i see this exactly thing will happen ? Of course i`m going to mock them now.

 

 

 

Not sure why your directing that rant at me. 

Maybe read people's posts before you start going off on a tangent.

If you bothered to read any other post I've made about sarri, you would realise I am very much pro sarri, as I was conte, and as i was mourinho. I think managers need time, and il stay inside as long as they don't make a rod for their own back.

The post you quoted me on, was just me stating another reason for klopp finishing 8th in his first season. How that translates in your mind as me wanting sarri sacked or being a 'spoiled kid' is baffling. 

You have very aggressive style if writing. 

 big blue, obviously not the all post is directed to you. Just the part for Klopp.

 

2 hours ago, Semper Fi said:

The only people who would get offended by my OP, are ones feeling guilty on doing it themselves. Where Im from, Ill call out the BS. Theres nothing sanctimonious about it. If you feel otherwise, utilize the ignore function and add me to it. 

Nope, that's where you're wrong. Because I'm fully for Sarri, if you actually read past more than two posts on this thread you would see I'm defending him. 

I don't want the manager to be sacked over one silly game. But I also don't have to bad mouth people and call them all names under the sun just because they don't agree with me on the matter, although I do question ones mental stability if they want the gaffer gone already. 

1 hour ago, Amputechture said:

Klopp's Liverpool finished 8th in his first season at the helm. What happened next? Club backed him, got rid of the deadwood and now they are serious contenders.

God only knows the reaction we'd get on here if we're in a similar position come the end of the season.

Best example used so far. 

Conte didn't adapt. He played the same set up he has always played. Other than the first month when we were sh*te. 

Maybe you missed the many times he had to change his formation depending on how difficult the team we are about to play is.

Zeta, wasnt Conte stubborn as well ? Mourinho before that ?
Who exactly you suggest to replace Sarri ?
Because otherwise your opinion it`s obviously a moan.
When you come to say something, don`t just say sack Sarri, but pls tell us, who will replace him in the middle of the season ?
Who will put his head on the table for Chelsea. Who is that manager, that will be better?
Pls explain. Otherwise your opinion have zero sense, zero credibility.
 

There are better managers out there who will want the job. But with Sarri still here, no manager will suddenly come up for it.

We were warned by Napoli fans that the first year was going to be up and down, which makes sense given that he's implementing a new style of football. City took time with Pep and he had much more skill available to him on the bench than Sarri does in his first 11. 

We've got to be patient, let him fine tune his squad and see where it goes next year. Sacking him now would be foolish.

37 minutes ago, wallosh said:

4 hours ago, loshlosh said:

Zeta, wasnt Conte stubborn as well ? Mourinho before that ?
Who exactly you suggest to replace Sarri ?
Because otherwise your opinion it`s obviously a moan.
When you come to say something, don`t just say sack Sarri, but pls tell us, who will replace him in the middle of the season ?
Who will put his head on the table for Chelsea. Who is that manager, that will be better?
Pls explain. Otherwise your opinion have zero sense, zero credibility.
 

There are better managers out there who will want the job. But with Sarri still here, no manager will suddenly come up for it.

Who are the better managers that will want to come here?

 

Edited January 31, 20197 yr by loshlosh

We have a serious mental problem when we have a setback especially when we fall behind, this season it seems to be the case more than ever.

Yesterday was a major example of what I'm talking about, first half I thought we were actually very good, we should have been ahead and I was actually quite relaxed because we were in total control bar one misshap for the King counter chance and I felt we would eventually grind them down and win relitevely comfortably.

Then we conceded early in the second half and we started panicking and second guessing ourselves and got beat comfortably, it happened similar in the Leicester game only on that occasion we didn't concede any more. I'm not sure why it's such a problem this year, but we seem to fall apart after a setback in ways I have never seen us do before.

3 hours ago, Nibs said:

Klopp was a highly sort after coach who had already had success in Germany. It would be great if Sarri was the calibre of Klopp, they do have some similarities, but I see Klopp as a coach who is flexible and adapts his tactics and doesn't keep selecting the same players when they are bang out of form. Right now I just don't have any faith in Sarri and he has a lot of work to do over the next few weeks to change that view.

I'm sorry but that's not true.

He wasn't very flexible, always wanted to play the heavy metal footy regardless of circumstance, played the likes of Lovren, Mignolet and Henderson week in week out while failing to adress problem areas in the market for over 2 years.