5 minutes ago, coco said:

So is comparing him to past managers after 6 months in the job.

Well yes & no. It's only natural for folk to comment and how he's been performing (or not). He's had plenty of praise early in the season but since the dip in form and the poor results and lack of goals, he is always going to be compared. "why does he do this, why doesn't he do that" etc.

But I maintain the win % gives a false picture when we still have to play the likes of Utd, Spurs and the dippers. If it's still 65% come May, then fair play to him.

6 minutes ago, abramovich said:

I'm wondering, would Sarri insist on this particular style of football if he got a job at Huddersfield or Fulham? Whenever asked, he keeps repeating the same mantra about sticking to his principles of how football should be played. I also keep reading from his fans here this argument about square pegs and round holes. Well, my question is, does he even know how to play any other way? And if he does, why not try modifying it a bit here and there, until you get the pegs you need to fill the holes you've got? Even if you're such a purist and perfectionist, surely you live in a real world and should know by now that you may not get another opportunity at a top club if you insist on this suicidal tactics with players that aren't suited to them?

This is one of my biggest gripes and frustrations with our football under Sarri. 

Okay he wants to implement a particular style of football on the team, 8 months in it's pretty apparent it isn't working. If the players he currently has aren't able to successfully carry out the instructions required to play that style of football why not compromise a little? 

Adapt things to bring out the strengths in the current playing squad because right now the type of football we're playing seems to expose the player's weaknesses more often than it's bringing out their strengths. 

Tweak things, adapt things, compromise things... Experiment a little. Right now it just feels like Sarri is essentially saying "It's this or nothing". 

Good example, Kante comes on last night, presumably to help see out the result at 2-0. Instead of playing him at the base of midfield, keep things simple and let him shield the back four for the final 20 minutes he rotates Kovacic there and puts Kante to the right of the midfield 3. He's so adamant that Kante won't play at the base of the midfield he's shuffling the entire midfield to ensure it doesn't happen.  

16 hours ago, Sindre said:

I like winning.

I dislike being in sixth and getting embarrased repeatedly. The way i see it there is not too much to be positive about at the moment.

And funnily enough i seem to be one of the few to actually defend our players currently. Seems like everyone else is perfectly happy to blame them for our failings while i think our problems stem from our naive and overly romantic and stubborn manager who can't adjust to this league.

Is that why you became a Chelsea fan in the first place, because you like winning?

Where are you from out of interest? Was their not a local team you could support, or didn’t they win enough for your liking, hence align yourself to one of the big boys.

I don’t know, maybe you had a great Auntie that once lived in Fulham, or you liked the kit?

12 minutes ago, Ewell CFC said:

Is that why you became a Chelsea fan in the first place, because you like winning?

Where are you from out of interest? Was their not a local team you could support, or didn’t they win enough for your liking, hence align yourself to one of the big boys.

I don’t know, maybe you had a great Auntie that once lived in Fulham, or you liked the kit?

What relevance does where he’s from have exactly? Superfans have to live on the Fulham road do they? I’m not interested in getting in to arguments with folk but sick to death of reading stuff like this. 

 

Not sure what your issue with someone liking winning is either, shouldn’t be interested or take part in competitive sport if you don’t.

34 minutes ago, Ewell CFC said:

Is that why you became a Chelsea fan in the first place, because you like winning?

Where are you from out of interest? Was their not a local team you could support, or didn’t they win enough for your liking, hence align yourself to one of the big boys.

I don’t know, maybe you had a great Auntie that once lived in Fulham, or you liked the kit?

Fan since the mid 90s. Didn’t win too many titles back then but I loved the two European Cups we won in 98’ and the FA-cups we won.
 

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

But I maintain the win % gives a false picture when we still have to play the likes of Utd, Spurs and the dippers. If it's still 65% come May, then fair play to him.

We have already played 7 out of 10 home/away games against the top 6, our remaining fixtures are -on paper easier after this month.

Sarri may not be doing what some of us want, including myself, i'd love to see the youngsters used more, but you have to admire and respect his will to do it his way, not the clubs way, not our way or the players way, but his way. He needs the fans to stand by him, which they will, but some of the players can't be guaranteed to commit to his philosophy. When these players are gone and Sarri has a squad of players that fits, we should expect to see a true picture of what he is all about.

 

10 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Fan since the mid 90s. Didn’t win too many titles back then but I loved the two European Cups we won in 98’ and the FA-cups we won.
 

 

10 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Fan since the mid 90s. Didn’t win too many titles back then but I loved the two European Cups we won in 98’ and the FA-cups we won.
 

Fair enough.

19 minutes ago, coco said:

but you have to admire and respect his will to do it his way

Why? When it is so clear that at current it isn't working. All the top managers have the tactical nous (spelling?) to change things to get better results. Doesn't seem at all admirable to be too stubborn to at least attempt to change things to see if there is any improvement. 

I get the whole argument of it not being his players, but he also made the comments of "not being interested in the transfer market and only wanting to coach the players available to him".  But now all of a sudden it is a case of square pegs in round holes, well why not tweak the system to have square holes?

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

This is one of my biggest gripes and frustrations with our football under Sarri. 

Okay he wants to implement a particular style of football on the team, 8 months in it's pretty apparent it isn't working. If the players he currently has aren't able to successfully carry out the instructions required to play that style of football why not compromise a little? 

Adapt things to bring out the strengths in the current playing squad because right now the type of football we're playing seems to expose the player's weaknesses more often than it's bringing out their strengths. 

Tweak things, adapt things, compromise things... Experiment a little. Right now it just feels like Sarri is essentially saying "It's this or nothing". 

Good example, Kante comes on last night, presumably to help see out the result at 2-0. Instead of playing him at the base of midfield, keep things simple and let him shield the back four for the final 20 minutes he rotates Kovacic there and puts Kante to the right of the midfield 3. He's so adamant that Kante won't play at the base of the midfield he's shuffling the entire midfield to ensure it doesn't happen.  

To be fair kante hasn't played there all season and kovacic has recently

Also kante contributes in the final third and kovacic doesn't. We were looking for a goal, why go more defensive ? (We clearly weren't looking to see the game out, we wanted to win 3-0)

I do think Sarri should have tried a 4-2-1-3, he has used that system before. But his argument is that he wants the players to know this system inside out before he tweaks it. 

Watching last night though, still no movement from players. Passing and moving the ball was slow. I can see what Sarri wants them to do and it's just not happening. We were dreadful yesterday. 

 

Edited February 15, 20197 yr by bisright1

5 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Why?

some of the players can't be guaranteed to commit to his philosophy

9 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

To be fair kante hasn't played there all season and kovacic has recently

Also kante contributes in the final third and kovacic doesn't. We were looking for a goal, why go more defensive ? (We clearly weren't looking to see the game out, we wanted to win 3-0)

I do think Sarri should have tried a 4-2-1-3, he has used that system before. But his argument is that he wants the players to know this system inside out before he tweaks it. 

Watching last night though, still no movement from players. Passing and moving the ball was slow. I can see what Sarri wants them to do and it's just not happening. We were dreadful yesterday. 

 

Everyone is making good points both those for Sarri and those who still aren't convinced.

But that bold bit is the crunch for me. Sarri can only get away with that for so long. Every coach could claim to be a genius and when it goes wrong just say "it's not me, I tell them what to do but it's just not happening". At some point it has to all click - we just have to hope it is sooner rather than later (if he gets that long).

 

Edited February 15, 20197 yr by Nibs

1 minute ago, coco said:

some of the players can't be guaranteed to commit to his philosophy

Even so I think there has to be a willingness from the manager to get the best out of the players he has available to him. If he does make it to the Summer and the club signs his preferred players, then so be it and hopefully we kick on from there. But I maintain that his reluctance to change will be what costs him his job.

I'm wondering, would Sarri insist on this particular style of football if he got a job at Huddersfield or Fulham? Whenever asked, he keeps repeating the same mantra about sticking to his principles of how football should be played. I also keep reading from his fans here this argument about square pegs and round holes. Well, my question is, does he even know how to play any other way? And if he does, why not try modifying it a bit here and there, until you get the pegs you need to fill the holes you've got? Even if you're such a purist and perfectionist, surely you live in a real world and should know by now that you may not get another opportunity at a top club if you insist on this suicidal tactics with players that aren't suited to them?
Can he play more direct instead of passing everyone into a coma? Why is our buildup so slow and predictable? Why do we create so few goalscoring opportunities per game? Why do we look like conceding every time we lose the ball? I'd love to know who's in charge of coaching defence in this Sarri's staff because this man is stealing a living. And isn't Sarriball, among other things, supposed to be about pressing the opposition in their own half and forcing them to turn over the ball so that we could pounce and ideally score? I keep seeing the opposite of that. So once again, either those players aren't coached properly or don't follow his instructions or aren't suited to that style of football. Whatever it is, after watching this for months, shouldn't you as a manager draw some conclusions and try another approach? After all, one thing we know about this group of players is that aside from being flaky and prone to turn on their managers on occasion, they do win trophies fairly regularly, so they must have some characteristics you could use to help you in a winning column. Why not use that, at least to protect yourself from getting sacked until the right players arrive and make your job easier?
Going back to what I started with, I remember Sam Allardyse and his Bolton from 2005 or so, seems like a good example. If you google 'long ball football' you'll probably get his ugly face among search results. That team was big, physical and nasty. No team enjoyed going to Bolton and facing those bastards. And it's not as if they didn't have a couple of technically gifted players like Okocha, but the manager knew how to use the players at his disposal to the fullest of their abilities. If Sarri got the Bolton job back then, he'd probably get them relegated in his first year.

That Bolton team ain't bastards though[emoji16][emoji16][emoji16][emoji16] love watching them play.

This is one of my biggest gripes and frustrations with our football under Sarri. 

Okay he wants to implement a particular style of football on the team, 8 months in it's pretty apparent it isn't working. If the players he currently has aren't able to successfully carry out the instructions required to play that style of football why not compromise a little? 

Adapt things to bring out the strengths in the current playing squad because right now the type of football we're playing seems to expose the player's weaknesses more often than it's bringing out their strengths. 

Tweak things, adapt things, compromise things... Experiment a little. Right now it just feels like Sarri is essentially saying "It's this or nothing". 

Good example, Kante comes on last night, presumably to help see out the result at 2-0. Instead of playing him at the base of midfield, keep things simple and let him shield the back four for the final 20 minutes he rotates Kovacic there and puts Kante to the right of the midfield 3. He's so adamant that Kante won't play at the base of the midfield he's shuffling the entire midfield to ensure it doesn't happen.  

You know what, Sarri himself knows Kante will be perfect and prove him wrong if he ever play him in that defensive midfield position. And on the other hand, it will also make spending a fortune on Jorginho feels like a big waist of money and won't make the board willing to trust Sarri when next he tells them to get him another player at whatever cost, and Sarri won't like to find himself in that position, so he will rather play even Barkley or RLC in the defensive midfield than Kante.

Sarri obviously doesn't want Kante to eventually expose his experiment with Jorginho in the defensive midfield that has resulted in us conceding lots of goals when playing away as FAILURE even though it might be the only thing that might save his job.

 

35 minutes ago, wallosh said:

You know what, Sarri himself knows Kante will be perfect and prove him wrong if he ever play him in that defensive midfield position. And on the other hand, it will also make spending a fortune on Jorginho feels like a big waist of money and won't make the board willing to trust Sarri when next he tells them to get him another player at whatever cost, and Sarri won't like to find himself in that position, so he will rather play even Barkley or RLC in the defensive midfield than Kante.

Sarri obviously doesn't want Kante to eventually expose his experiment with Jorginho in the defensive midfield that has resulted in us conceding lots of goals when playing away as FAILURE even though it might be the only thing that might save his job.

 

This is a nonsense post. Sarri just prefers Kante to be box to box. 

Also, before Bournemouth, we really weren't conceding many goals. 

This is a nonsense post. Sarri just prefers Kante to be box to box. 
Also, before Bournemouth, we really weren't conceding many goals. 

So just like Sarri, you agreed playing as a box to box will get the best out of Kante and improve our team? [emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]

1 minute ago, wallosh said:

So just like Sarri, you agreed playing as a box to box will get the best out of Kante and improve our team?

Kante has always been a box to box player, he's just less deep now. This obsession people have with him sitting in the middle midfield position is really grinding my gears. 

10 minutes ago, wallosh said:

So just like Sarri, you agreed playing as a box to box will get the best out of Kante and improve our team?

In this formation, yes. I think kante would perform best where he plays. 

Personally I think we should be playing kante deeper in partnership with jorginho or kovacic in a 4-2-3-1 setup. I think that is an easier transition to sarris style. 

But kante as a sole deep lying player? Not seen it work before. 

2 hours ago, drjonesy1994 said:

 But I maintain that his reluctance to change will be what costs him his job.

It will either cost him his job quickly, or the other end of the spectrum where we'll see some amazing football at the club. 

Lets all be honest, which would you want to happen ?

If he changed his philosophy- even slightly, and it goes pear shaped, have we given him the best chance to succeed? 

17 minutes ago, coco said:

It will either cost him his job quickly, or the other end of the spectrum where we'll see some amazing football at the club. 

Lets all be honest, which would you want to happen ?

If he changed his philosophy- even slightly, and it goes pear shaped, have we given him the best chance to succeed? 

I think he just needs to show a willingness to prepare for next season. If he blooded youth into the team, CHO + Ampadu and stopped persisting with out of form players, I imagine he would convert a good section of the anti sarri brigade. 

I wonder if next we might get a manager who isn't so committed to a single formation. We had 2 seasons of 5 at the back and nothing else, now we seem set to have at least 1,maybe 2 seasons of this formation and nothing else. 

Could be interesting if we get a manager in who wants to play both depending on circumstance. We certainly have the squad who can play both systems!

32 minutes ago, coco said:

If he changed his philosophy- even slightly, and it goes pear shaped, have we given him the best chance to succeed? 

But it is going pear-shaped at the moment, so what have we got to lose?

5 hours ago, Nibs said:

That isn't unimpressive but a bit pointless and miss-leading until full season completed when we have played everyone home & away.

Sarri is being ridiculed by some of our fans and made out to be worse than AVB, Scolari, and others, however these stats highlight that in fact he is not, therefore certainly not pointless or misleading as you would perceive.

Edited February 15, 20197 yr by Osgood is Good

The win percentage is pointless unless each manager played exactly the same teams in the same order as each other.

Manager A could play all the relegation fodder in his first 10 games.

Manager B could play all the teams with Champions League aspirations.

In Sarris case his figures include the Europa fixtures & that’s the equivalent of pre-season friendlies against Dulwich Hamlet.

4 minutes ago, shedpensioner said:

The win percentage is pointless unless each manager played exactly the same teams in the same order as each other.

Manager A could play all the relegation fodder in his first 10 games.

Manager B could play all the teams with Champions League aspirations.

In Sarris case his figures include the Europa fixtures & that’s the equivalent of pre-season friendlies against Dulwich Hamlet.

After 40 games Sarri has played every team in the PL at least once including the top 5, so no it is not pointless unless it doesn't fit peoples narrative. A 65% win percentage is impressive considering he is trying to completely change a playing style. 

Sarri is asking players to make more attacking movements. They’re not doing it. When we look good it’s when our players are making a conscious effort to make runs. That’s basics of football. If the players can’t do that then get rid of them.