Jorginho had 8 ball recoveries and 7 interceptions... This won't happen in the final because Spain is just too good technically much more than England so I expect Italy to have more possession. Spain did well, no problems against any press.

1 minute ago, Itsintheblood89 said:

Class of his own tonight. Without meaning to offend people... If you cannot see how gifted he is as a player then for me you simply don't understand football. 

You have to appreciate sometimes he will have a poor game (WBA at home for example) but he isn't the person to point the finger at if we cannot break down low blocks. He truly is a phenomenal player. 

No offence taken.

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One thing he has is bottle. That penalty at the end looked so much simpler than it ought to be

Not to support other national sides, but I was thrilled for him tonight when his penalty went in.  Class act.  WBA or the Arsenal give away pass had me frustrated, but his contributions are huge.  Europa League and Champions League is not a bad start to his Chelsea career - a leader in the team.

What a penalty last night. Well done to him. I have enjoyed watching him throughout this tournament, without the ‘pressure’ of it being games for us.

He'd be a yearly all star in every league in the world including Champions League. Premier league is different. The pace kills and it kills Jorginho. 

The simplicity and complexity of his game are not apparent. The simplicity is the pass he makes. He never hogs the ball like 9/10 players in the world. He puts it on to next one because he knows it progresses the team play. The complex part is how he positions himself in the field. In Team Italy he dictates where everyone is, when to press high, when to cover for Chiellini at CB. For Italy he is center of everything really. When he lacks pace someone covers for him. 

Will be player of the tournament if Italy wins it.

8 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Jorginho had 8 ball recoveries and 7 interceptions... This won't happen in the final because Spain is just too good technically much more than England so I expect Italy to have more possession. Spain did well, no problems against any press.

In truth Gol, great penalty aside at the end, he had a pretty ineffective match last. He failed all game to get any sort of defensive grip on either Olmo or Pedri, and Busquets completely out-shone him with an all-round "holding" midfielder display of superb quality. Busquets made Spain tick, (and went very close to scoring), Jorginho did not do anywhere near the same job for Italy.

What got Italy through last night was Bonucci, Chiellini and Donnarumma. The best centre-backs and keeper in the competition. I think they will also get them past whoever Italy meet in the final.

6 minutes ago, just said:

In truth Gol, great penalty aside at the end, he had a pretty ineffective match last. He failed all game to get any sort of defensive grip on either Olmo or Pedri, and Busquets completely out-shone him with an all-round "holding" midfielder display of superb quality. Busquets made Spain tick, (and went very close to scoring), Jorginho did not do anywhere near the same job for Italy.

What got Italy through last night was Bonucci, Chiellini and Donnarumma. The best centre-backs and keeper in the competition. I think they will also get them past whoever Italy meet in the final.

Indeed - Italy's performance reminded me of some of the shakier times under Lampard. If you end up ceding the majority of possession (whether by design or not) and need to get the ball forwards quickly then it's basically pointless having Jorginho on the pitch. Watching Spain effortlessly slice through Italy's midfield over and over again (particularly in the first half) and attacking the huge space in front of Italy's back four was a very, very familiar sight.*

But don't let that get in the way of a good narrative!

 

 

 

*Familiar also was Emerson being generally useless on the left... honestly, what a downgrade from Spinazzola.

17 minutes ago, just said:

In truth Gol, great penalty aside at the end, he had a pretty ineffective match last. He failed all game to get any sort of defensive grip on either Olmo or Pedri, and Busquets completely out-shone him with an all-round "holding" midfielder display of superb quality. Busquets made Spain tick, (and went very close to scoring), Jorginho did not do anywhere near the same job for Italy.

What got Italy through last night was Bonucci, Chiellini and Donnarumma. The best centre-backs and keeper in the competition. I think they will also get them past whoever Italy meet in the final.

Are you tying to compare Busquet to Jorginho the all world regista? 

They are not on the same level. 

 

9 hours ago, just said:

In terms of his range of passing, speed of passing, vision and creativity. 100%

You will too in time gol.

This is interesting discussion because it is not clear cut. 🤔🤔

One touch pass I give to Jorgi, speed kante, general pass maybe Mount and Gilmour. Silva passing is also very good. But all of them are like 2/3 level below cesc

 

I may be biased here but I didn't see Jorginho do much, or indeed Italy's midfield, for most part of the game. Spain controlled them quite well and Jorginho was quite ineffective and did not manage to grab the control of the midfield. Defensively he may have had X interceptions or Y ball recoveries, but you'd want him to control the match and get the team ticking being a "world class" deep lying playmaker. Even more, if you look at the offensive stats he was pretty inefficient and in passing statistics, Chiellini is much better than Jorginho in long ball accuracy, pass accuracy etc

He took his penalty as cool as he always does, he has very good technique and rarely misses.

Nice moment last night when Jorginho calmly dispatches his penalty and the whole team rush towards him.

Agree he was limited in the match by the Spanish press to just interceptions and limited passing.

I was thinking as he was lining up for that penalty kick, would he do his normal kick routine and would Unai Simon read it? 

It looked the same penalty yet also thought it he may released the ball sooner like having a shorter hop.

Anyway, nice one Jorginho.

 

3 hours ago, just said:

In truth Gol, great penalty aside at the end, he had a pretty ineffective match last. He failed all game to get any sort of defensive grip on either Olmo or Pedri, and Busquets completely out-shone him with an all-round "holding" midfielder display of superb quality. Busquets made Spain tick, (and went very close to scoring), Jorginho did not do anywhere near the same job for Italy.

What got Italy through last night was Bonucci, Chiellini and Donnarumma. The best centre-backs and keeper in the competition. I think they will also get them past whoever Italy meet in the final.

A perfect example of how statistics can inflate a players worth and give an unclear picture of how the match was viewed by the majority. There was one real quality midfielder on show yesterday, Busquets, who ran the game. No coincidence that Spain depreciated as an attacking force when he left the fray. 

On a side note how did Felix Brych not book Jorgi for an identical foul for which Busquets was booked for earlier? Did me out of an 18/1 double with the correct score at 90mins.

Busquets was given more time on the ball by a Spanish team that was  better over 2/3of the pitch than Italy. That said Busquets had a great game particularly with his vertical passing. Still Jorginho was I think the only Italian midfielder to play the whole 120. 

I thought Donnarumma made a couple of mistakes, gave the ball away dangerously in h1 with a poor clearance and went completely the wrong way for Morata’s goal. He did start their goal move and was commanding in the air. He’s a big unit. In general the Italian defence looked slow, making it hard to link up well with the midfield because they played deep to compensate.. Most of the long bombs from the Italian defence were inaccurate. 

 

 

Edited July 7, 20215 yr by ozboy

4 hours ago, just said:

What got Italy through last night was Bonucci, Chiellini and Donnarumma.

Neither of them had good games. Neither Bonucci or Chiellini bothered to follow Olmo (the striker) all game meaning he had free reigns in the space between midfield and defence.

26 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Neither of them had good games. Neither Bonucci or Chiellini bothered to follow Olmo (the striker) all game meaning he had free reigns in the space between midfield and defence.

Thats not their job, the last thing you want is a centre back chasing a player out of defence leaving a huge hole for another player to break past them into. Thats the midfielders job to set back and pick him up.

Hard to excel in midfield against a well drilled and in form Spain tho - they didn't have just Busquets "running the show yesterday" but also Pedri playing basically a perfect match. They played without any striker so that they could overload and dominate the midfield at will especially with Olmo being everywhere and MotM imho. Also he's organizing each and everything on the pitch - people tend to think players do that because they're lazy or too slow but that's just ignorant. Amazing player, very sublime.

 

Hope he can relax a good deal after the Euro and come back next season to continue alongside Kanté and Kova (and eventually Mount).

4 hours ago, just said:

In truth Gol, great penalty aside at the end, he had a pretty ineffective match last. He failed all game to get any sort of defensive grip on either Olmo or Pedri, and Busquets completely out-shone him with an all-round "holding" midfielder display of superb quality. Busquets made Spain tick, (and went very close to scoring), Jorginho did not do anywhere near the same job for Italy.

What got Italy through last night was Bonucci, Chiellini and Donnarumma. The best centre-backs and keeper in the competition. I think they will also get them past whoever Italy meet in the final.

Funny how Verratti and Barella got subbed but Jorginho was the only starting midfielder that saw the game through, if that performance was Rice you would be crying of joy how good he would have been against the tiki taka side but since you have the anti-Jorginho outlook in your life, everything is simply ineffective for you... I imagine you closed your eyes every time Busquets made a foul and lost the ball as well, if Jorginho played like him that would also be simply, ineffective according to you.

Jorginho is a key player for the current Euro finalists and CL winners, sorry. 

Edited July 7, 20215 yr by Gol15

8 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

Not to support other national sides, but I was thrilled for him tonight when his penalty went in.  Class act.  WBA or the Arsenal give away pass had me frustrated, but his contributions are huge.  Europa League and Champions League is not a bad start to his Chelsea career - a leader in the team.

That's the problem playing that position, his good things go unnoticed and any mistake made often leads to a chance for the opponent.

 

4 hours ago, RMH said:

I may be biased here but I didn't see Jorginho do much, or indeed Italy's midfield, for most part of the game. Spain controlled them quite well and Jorginho was quite ineffective and did not manage to grab the control of the midfield. Defensively he may have had X interceptions or Y ball recoveries, but you'd want him to control the match and get the team ticking being a "world class" deep lying playmaker. Even more, if you look at the offensive stats he was pretty inefficient and in passing statistics, Chiellini is much better than Jorginho in long ball accuracy, pass accuracy etc

He took his penalty as cool as he always does, he has very good technique and rarely misses.

Jorginho is a more complete player than that, Spain is really superb when it comes to being technical they still play a tiki-taka style and nobody does it better than them, this is why Jorginho managed to make more interceptions than any other player in a single game in this Euro and also in the previous Euro, the tactics that Luis Enrique played this game was pretty special and Jorginho adapted to it, Italy needed him to do exactly what he did last time, highest amount of ball recoveries and interceptions and a match winning penalty against a keeper that is by all means a good penalty stopper, I can simply say that probably no Italian has anything bad to say against Jorginho's performance, or anyone that isn't biased against him.

This agenda against Jorginho is super cringe, it only goes to show just how little you people that critizice 24/7 actually know much about the game, you see everything in an anti-Jorginho way, if he controls the game he should score 2 goals and assists 2 times but if he doesn't then he isn't a good enough player despite the fact that he was really consistent against a very well drilled technical side.

Edited July 7, 20215 yr by Gol15

22 minutes ago, dkw said:

Thats not their job, the last thing you want is a centre back chasing a player out of defence leaving a huge hole for another player to break past them into. Thats the midfielders job to set back and pick him up.

Is this why Laporte was chasing Immobile the whole game and making his life difficult, because it's not his job to take care of the striker? LMAO these stupid takes are taking a whole new level now that Jorginho has made the final in every possible cup he played in ever since we bought him 

10 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Funny how Verratti and Barella got subbed but Jorginho was the only starting midfielder that saw the game through, if that performance was Rice you would be crying of joy how good he would have been against the tiki taka side but since you have the anti-Jorginho outlook in your life, everything is simply ineffective for you... I imagine you closed your eyes every time Busquets made a foul and lost the ball as well, if Jorginho played like him that would also be simply, ineffective according to you.

Jorginho is a key player for the current Euro finalists and CL winners, sorry. 

Oh gosh, not all this again. I came on here to congratulate him on his penalty. Instead all I see is this constant back and forth. Its getting childish and embarrassing now.

Also you don't help the matter @Gol15 by acting like Jorginho is the most perfect player that ever existed and every success of our team is down to him. It's almost as though you are related to him or he's sponsoring you. I'm not blaming you as you are trying to stick up for him, but I can also see why this thread just keeps continuing day in day out like this, because of that. 

27 minutes ago, dkw said:

Thats not their job, the last thing you want is a centre back chasing a player out of defence leaving a huge hole for another player to break past them into. Thats the midfielders job to set back and pick him up.

The midfielders weren't asked to sit back by the manager so unless they disobeyed Mancini they weren't sitting back. I don't think it would have been a massive issue for a CB to follow Olmo, they even tried a few times but were too passive and slow for Olmo (and Pedri for that sake). Spain's CB followed Immobile around and took him out of the game completely. He also tried to drop deep but they didn't allow him too.

Anyways, my whole point is that they definitly didn't have good games. Olmo and even Morata when he came on toyed with them.

Edited July 7, 20215 yr by Sindre