2 hours ago, The Don Antonio said:

That's not the point. The point is the managers had a say in most transfers. Why buy players if u don't know whether it fits in with the managers philosophy.  

Contrary to popular belief most managers don’t have a say in transfers. They identify the position they need and the kind of player they want in that position and the rest is up to the scouting/recruiting team. Once in a while they might have a particular player they want but that’s it. This isn’t football manager where mangers are picking and choosing who they want.

45 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

You dont actually believe that a billionaire invests £60m (ish) in a player solely because another club were after him do you?

Ha i was attempting sarcasm don't worry 😂

3 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

What colour is the carpet in the boardroom? how are the coffees? Do they give finger foods at meetings?

Hadnt realised you were a club insider, and knew what past regime and managers did and didnt do.

 

You again. You need some love in your life .

3 hours ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Contrary to popular belief most managers don’t have a say in transfers. They identify the position they need and the kind of player they want in that position and the rest is up to the scouting/recruiting team. Once in a while they might have a particular player they want but that’s it. This isn’t football manager where mangers are picking and choosing who they want.

So why do you think nagelsman rejected us and do you honestly think Potter had a say in the players we bought in January. 

9 minutes ago, The Don Antonio said:

So why do you think nagelsman rejected us and do you honestly think Potter had a say in the players we bought in January. 

They are very much the type of profile of signings he made at Brighton, young/versatile etc.

At worst like @Frankie8Lampardsaid he identified a profile and the recruitment team did the rest.

Furthermore no manager on the planet says no to Enzo Fernandez.

2 hours ago, The Don Antonio said:

So why do you think nagelsman rejected us and do you honestly think Potter had a say in the players we bought in January. 

From what's being reported, Nagelsmann rejected us because he expected us to get the job and not be evaluated by others it didn't really have much to do with transfers. Nagelsmann was my main choice initially but after reading about that that showed me a snapshot of his character and it shows that his personality probably wouldn't have worked long-term with the board. Considering he didn't get along with the Bayern board too (who tend to be looked at highly in European football) pretty much shows he is a difficult character to work with. 

Just like Argo said, Potter probably gave them a profile as to the type of players he wanted and the recruitment team ended up doing the rest. There's too much money and moving pieces in modern European football for managers to have a high level of control in the transfer market. 

So is it official already or is Todd still mucking around?

Proper scouting is one part of the plan but I am hoping the club work towards knowing when to integrate these young players. 

No doubt I'll get people calling me out saying I'm trying to defend Clearlake, I'm not they've made things worse no arguments there, but this has been a cocktail a decade in the making. Now don't get this twisted I appreciate Roman for what he done for this club at the start and how he kept the winning culture here even when we were sh*t but the way we were being run in the last ten years has contributed to us falling so far off the pace domestically.

It started when we scraped the 'long term project' to give Mourinho a quick title losing the eventual two best PL players in the process (which is why I absolutely cant on this earth understand why anyone wants Jose back now we're going or atleast trying to go down a similar route, do we learn nothing?) Then after the ultimate sticky plaster of 16/17 let Conte load the squad with some serious rubbish (don't give me this nonsense that Bakayoko, Morata, Zappacosta etc were forced on him, as we saw with Michy and Spence if Conte didn't want them he wouldn't have played them).

Then the next mistake was not letting Sarri continue his work. People can bang on about how "boring" the football was as much as they like but as we have seen at Napoli and are now with Lazio it's a sustainable approach where the effects of his training can last even after he's gone (infact I think that's the reason Lampards first season went as well as it did).

Then it was not cashing in on the academy talent, we literally had our own class of 92 a few years back and Mount/James aside we squandered it. One thing ill give the ownership with the Colwill news and the Pochettino appointment is we do seem to have learned from that one.

Then after the UCL under Tuchel despite all the errors made before we had the basis of a bonafide elite system where the pressing, interplay and movement had even City chasing shadows and what do we do? Add probably the most unsuitable player on the planet to play that system for £97m, oh and let the contracts of two key defenders run down.

Then ofcourse there's the mistakes last summer on new ownership, we should have signed Fofana (and if we had enough time to gazump Benfica Enzo) and left it at that until we had the team in.

I do think despite all that this is fixable but fans will have to accept a process, if most/all the underlying metrics are pointing to sustainable progress under Pochettino then leave him be regardless of results, that's not only on the owners but the match going fans aswell, no "f**k Pochettino ball" if we're 7th and not playing the most enthralling football.

Edited April 26, 20233 yr by Argo

18 minutes ago, Argo said:

 

I do think despite all that this is fixable but fans will have to accept a process, if most/all the underlying metrics are pointing to sustainable progress under Pochettino then leave him be regardless of results, that's not only on the owners but the match going fans aswell, no "f**k Pochettino ball" if we're 7th and not playing the most enthralling football.

If Pochettino can get this lot to 7th next season, I will forget all about his Tottenham history. He'll have my full support going forward.

When will our fans start to chant Bohley out?

it is beyond the players or managers now, you don’t become this sh*t in a season without being sabotaged by an incompetent owner

fire Potter just to hire Pochettino? The Spurs reject? Are you serious lol

Whatever Boehly and his team's good intentions, he came to a sports/league he knew nothing about, decided to take everything on and making drastic changes without any thoughts  of consequences. Server him right the club is in sh1t state due to his actions, of course it's fans who suffer the most. Ideally he should swallow his pride and let the football people run the club, and stay away. Of course he won't do that.

1 hour ago, cfcforeverfan said:

When will our fans start to chant Bohley out?

After we lose the 6 pointer vs Forrest and go down? 

2 hours ago, Argo said:

No doubt I'll get people calling me out saying I'm trying to defend Clearlake, I'm not they've made things worse no arguments there, but this has been a cocktail a decade in the making. Now don't get this twisted I appreciate Roman for what he done for this club at the start and how he kept the winning culture here even when we were sh*t but the way we were being run in the last ten years has contributed to us falling so far off the pace domestically.

It started when we scraped the 'long term project' to give Mourinho a quick title losing the eventual two best PL players in the process (which is why I absolutely cant on this earth understand why anyone wants Jose back now we're going or atleast trying to go down a similar route, do we learn nothing?) Then after the ultimate sticky plaster of 16/17 let Conte load the squad with some serious rubbish (don't give me this nonsense that Bakayoko, Morata, Zappacosta etc were forced on him, as we saw with Michy and Spence if Conte didn't want them he wouldn't have played them).

Then the next mistake was not letting Sarri continue his work. People can bang on about how "boring" the football was as much as they like but as we have seen at Napoli and are now with Lazio it's a sustainable approach where the effects of his training can last even after he's gone (infact I think that's the reason Lampards first season went as well as it did).

Then it was not cashing in on the academy talent, we literally had our own class of 92 a few years back and Mount/James aside we squandered it. One thing ill give the ownership with the Colwill news and the Pochettino appointment is we do seem to have learned from that one.

Then after the UCL under Tuchel despite all the errors made before we had the basis of a bonafide elite system where the pressing, interplay and movement had even City chasing shadows and what do we do? Add probably the most unsuitable player on the planet to play that system for £97m, oh and let the contracts of two key defenders run down.

Then ofcourse there's the mistakes last summer on new ownership, we should have signed Fofana (and if we had enough time to gazump Benfica Enzo) and left it at that until we had the team in.

I do think despite all that this is fixable but fans will have to accept a process, if most/all the underlying metrics are pointing to sustainable progress under Pochettino then leave him be regardless of results, that's not only on the owners but the match going fans aswell, no "f**k Pochettino ball" if we're 7th and not playing the most enthralling football.

I agree with everything you said except the Sarri part. I agree with the general idea that we should stick with managers if they are building something but I don't think Sarri's style of football is sustainable in the PL. Just like Lukaku can score 30+ in Serie A, that's probably why Sarri's football is working in the Serie A. 

2 hours ago, Argo said:

No doubt I'll get people calling me out saying I'm trying to defend Clearlake, I'm not they've made things worse no arguments there, but this has been a cocktail a decade in the making. Now don't get this twisted I appreciate Roman for what he done for this club at the start and how he kept the winning culture here even when we were sh*t but the way we were being run in the last ten years has contributed to us falling so far off the pace domestically.

It started when we scraped the 'long term project' to give Mourinho a quick title losing the eventual two best PL players in the process (which is why I absolutely cant on this earth understand why anyone wants Jose back now we're going or atleast trying to go down a similar route, do we learn nothing?) Then after the ultimate sticky plaster of 16/17 let Conte load the squad with some serious rubbish (don't give me this nonsense that Bakayoko, Morata, Zappacosta etc were forced on him, as we saw with Michy and Spence if Conte didn't want them he wouldn't have played them).

Then the next mistake was not letting Sarri continue his work. People can bang on about how "boring" the football was as much as they like but as we have seen at Napoli and are now with Lazio it's a sustainable approach where the effects of his training can last even after he's gone (infact I think that's the reason Lampards first season went as well as it did).

Then it was not cashing in on the academy talent, we literally had our own class of 92 a few years back and Mount/James aside we squandered it. One thing ill give the ownership with the Colwill news and the Pochettino appointment is we do seem to have learned from that one.

Then after the UCL under Tuchel despite all the errors made before we had the basis of a bonafide elite system where the pressing, interplay and movement had even City chasing shadows and what do we do? Add probably the most unsuitable player on the planet to play that system for £97m, oh and let the contracts of two key defenders run down.

Then ofcourse there's the mistakes last summer on new ownership, we should have signed Fofana (and if we had enough time to gazump Benfica Enzo) and left it at that until we had the team in.

I do think despite all that this is fixable but fans will have to accept a process, if most/all the underlying metrics are pointing to sustainable progress under Pochettino then leave him be regardless of results, that's not only on the owners but the match going fans aswell, no "f**k Pochettino ball" if we're 7th and not playing the most enthralling football.

A very thought provoking post. 

I agree with much of these problems pre-dating the current ownership, but it's been exacerbated by their actions this season.

You might have a point on the short term solutions of Mourinho and Conte, but I wouldn't trade those PL titles for anything. They were worth bringing in for that success alone.

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

After we lose the 6 pointer vs Forrest and go down? 

There will be some apologist here to defend him

american owners = sh*t

7 hours ago, Argo said:

No doubt I'll get people calling me out saying I'm trying to defend Clearlake, I'm not they've made things worse no arguments there, but this has been a cocktail a decade in the making. Now don't get this twisted I appreciate Roman for what he done for this club at the start and how he kept the winning culture here even when we were sh*t but the way we were being run in the last ten years has contributed to us falling so far off the pace domestically.

It started when we scraped the 'long term project' to give Mourinho a quick title losing the eventual two best PL players in the process (which is why I absolutely cant on this earth understand why anyone wants Jose back now we're going or atleast trying to go down a similar route, do we learn nothing?) Then after the ultimate sticky plaster of 16/17 let Conte load the squad with some serious rubbish (don't give me this nonsense that Bakayoko, Morata, Zappacosta etc were forced on him, as we saw with Michy and Spence if Conte didn't want them he wouldn't have played them).

Then the next mistake was not letting Sarri continue his work. People can bang on about how "boring" the football was as much as they like but as we have seen at Napoli and are now with Lazio it's a sustainable approach where the effects of his training can last even after he's gone (infact I think that's the reason Lampards first season went as well as it did).

Then it was not cashing in on the academy talent, we literally had our own class of 92 a few years back and Mount/James aside we squandered it. One thing ill give the ownership with the Colwill news and the Pochettino appointment is we do seem to have learned from that one.

Then after the UCL under Tuchel despite all the errors made before we had the basis of a bonafide elite system where the pressing, interplay and movement had even City chasing shadows and what do we do? Add probably the most unsuitable player on the planet to play that system for £97m, oh and let the contracts of two key defenders run down.

Then ofcourse there's the mistakes last summer on new ownership, we should have signed Fofana (and if we had enough time to gazump Benfica Enzo) and left it at that until we had the team in.

I do think despite all that this is fixable but fans will have to accept a process, if most/all the underlying metrics are pointing to sustainable progress under Pochettino then leave him be regardless of results, that's not only on the owners but the match going fans aswell, no "f**k Pochettino ball" if we're 7th and not playing the most enthralling football.

Good post. But how do you expect the fans to accept a process as you put it? Everything you say confirms my feeling that we - the fans - are the biggest problem and nothing will be resolved until that changes. We like to think we’re long-termist, but in reality we can’t be - too spoilt, too many years of Roman-era conditioning. As a result, everyone wants to take the path of least resistance. It’s always - “fire the manager, get rid of player x, buy player y,” and never “what can we do with what we’ve got.?”We are on average far more petulant (“fxck sarriball” episode was hard to watch and shameful) and ruthless than Roman or any other owner anywhere ever was. That mindset isn’t going to change over night, and not without further pain. So it needs to get worse before it (and we) can get better. It’s the stuff of parables/fables. 

Sobering thought ... 10 of the 14 players that played in the Champions League Final are still at the club. 

No way things should be as bad as they are.

We've literally done a 180 this season from being the team that no-one wants to play to the team that everyone wants to play.

I guess in F1 parlance, even if you have the best car with the best engine, if you have a poor driver behind the wheel then you're going to finish well down the field and nowhere near the podium. And if you have a competitive car, not the best but competitive, then a great driver can still make the podium.

From the Clearlake perspective, there have been 3 very bad decisions

• Firing Tuchel
• Hiring Potter
• Hiring Lampard (Potter should have seen out the season, and a decision been taken at that point)

In addition, the jury is still out on Vivell, Winstanley and Stewart (and Macauley) being any better than Granovskaia, Cech and whoever else Abramovich was listening to on footballing and transfer matters. 

I'd love to know if Gilbert Enoka is still "helping" on mentality matters LOL, and what format that "help" has taken up to now 🙂 

Good luck to Pochettino anyway. He is a decent manager, and this is a great opportunity for him. The Yazz moment ... "The Only Way Is Up !"

🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

I kind of agree with this. 

 

5 minutes ago, enigma said:

I kind of agree with this. 

 

I also kinda feel that way club supporters needed a reality check even though the chnage in ownership was force I suspect this kinda a collapse was inevitable due to how the club was built. Maybe not this bad but we would never have matched city’s performance if we kept sacking managers and not building towards something like City/pool and even Arsenal.

As the tweet said above, to be honest a meltdown was coming.  It happened when Mourinho returned, now it's happening again. At least last time we brought in Hiddink and had players like Hazard, Costa, Fabregas, Terry etc. Now we have a bunch of young, overpaid privileged players who hide when the going gets tough.

Under Roman we never truly built a sustainable team with a stable coach. We chopped and changed, and yeah it worked from time to time, but since Carlo won the league, the club has been up and down. We have seen this even more so in the last 5 years than any other though. If not for the CL win recently, the last five seasons would have been poor on paper. 

12 minutes ago, enigma said:

As the tweet said above, to be honest a meltdown was coming.  It happened when Mourinho returned, now it's happening again. At least last time we brought in Hiddink and had players like Hazard, Costa, Fabregas, Terry etc. Now we have a bunch of young, overpaid privileged players who hide when the going gets tough.

Under Roman we never truly built a sustainable team with a stable coach. We chopped and changed, and yeah it worked from time to time, but since Carlo won the league, the club has been up and down. We have seen this even more so in the last 5 years than any other though. If not for the CL win recently, the last five seasons would have been poor on paper. 

Domestically, we haven't won a trophy for 5 seasons. Last one was the FA Cup win under Conte. Sounds worse than it is due to the 5 lost finals, but all that notwithstanding, we've finished 3rd, 4th, 4th and 3rd in the four seasons before this one, so to fall off the way we have this season is a stunning decline in standards. We were in 4th after the first 10 games this season as well ... literally relegation form since that point though ... 

10 hours ago, Argo said:

No doubt I'll get people calling me out saying I'm trying to defend Clearlake, I'm not they've made things worse no arguments there, but this has been a cocktail a decade in the making. Now don't get this twisted I appreciate Roman for what he done for this club at the start and how he kept the winning culture here even when we were sh*t but the way we were being run in the last ten years has contributed to us falling so far off the pace domestically.

It started when we scraped the 'long term project' to give Mourinho a quick title losing the eventual two best PL players in the process (which is why I absolutely cant on this earth understand why anyone wants Jose back now we're going or atleast trying to go down a similar route, do we learn nothing?) Then after the ultimate sticky plaster of 16/17 let Conte load the squad with some serious rubbish (don't give me this nonsense that Bakayoko, Morata, Zappacosta etc were forced on him, as we saw with Michy and Spence if Conte didn't want them he wouldn't have played them).

Then the next mistake was not letting Sarri continue his work. People can bang on about how "boring" the football was as much as they like but as we have seen at Napoli and are now with Lazio it's a sustainable approach where the effects of his training can last even after he's gone (infact I think that's the reason Lampards first season went as well as it did).

Then it was not cashing in on the academy talent, we literally had our own class of 92 a few years back and Mount/James aside we squandered it. One thing ill give the ownership with the Colwill news and the Pochettino appointment is we do seem to have learned from that one.

Then after the UCL under Tuchel despite all the errors made before we had the basis of a bonafide elite system where the pressing, interplay and movement had even City chasing shadows and what do we do? Add probably the most unsuitable player on the planet to play that system for £97m, oh and let the contracts of two key defenders run down.

Then ofcourse there's the mistakes last summer on new ownership, we should have signed Fofana (and if we had enough time to gazump Benfica Enzo) and left it at that until we had the team in.

I do think despite all that this is fixable but fans will have to accept a process, if most/all the underlying metrics are pointing to sustainable progress under Pochettino then leave him be regardless of results, that's not only on the owners but the match going fans aswell, no "f**k Pochettino ball" if we're 7th and not playing the most enthralling football.

Fans did not like Sarri and our generational superstar in Hazard was not performing well within Sarri's system.

I do think Sarri was decent though Higuain was a major error.

We may not even score again this season, the football 'gods' are pissed off with Boehly and Co trying to pull a fast one with amortisation if so should clear once we have a sell out and are back on terms with FFP. Football can be a strange game at times.