8 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Pundits are now getting on Lampards back, I find it a bit ironic how Keane is getting in on the action after constantly defending Ole and making every excuse for him. 
 

Not a big surprise. Keane is a loyal United man. Ole has enjoyed some plaudits recently as United have been on a decent run (often helped by some fortunate late goals and reffing decisions). Look at the big name players on their squad and they should be challenging for the title. I still think they are dodgy defensively and that will ultimately cost them (possibly Ole too). Look at the poor goal they gave away last night against City for a reminder of that.

15 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Pundits are now getting on Lampards back, I find it a bit ironic how Keane is getting in on the action after constantly defending Ole and making every excuse for him. 
 

Keane and Neville are just backing their man just like I would expect Carra & Co to do if Gerrard was in the Liverpool job etc. yet the goalposts change when it comes to someone else.

I personally feel a lot worse when a Chelsea fan doesnt back Lampard because I've seen a lot more from Frank in his 2 season's with us whether it comes to Man Management or tactics then I have seen from Ole in his decade in Management. Ole managed to single handedly get them knocked out of the CL this season with absolutely ludicrous decisions in 3 games and so far it's individual brilliance or officiating that is keeping him in a job rather than anything he has done tactically.   

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

Pundits are now getting on Lampards back, I find it a bit ironic how Keane is getting in on the action after constantly defending Ole and making every excuse for him. 
 

Their bias is not hid. They are United fans and former team mates of Ole. They will back him and support him as Frank's ex team mates would do too.

Whereas the United fanbase was likely split like our own is currently.

3 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

Man for man you are probably right that we have a better squad now however it is a far less settled and established squad than the one we had with Sarri.

We have a much younger team still quite a way away from hitting it's prime whereas under Sarri we had key players in their prime Hazard, Kante, Willian & Azpi to be precise. Hazard & Kante at the time could be said to be top 10 in the world whereas currently we don't have any player close to world class (Kante has not really been the same since his injury back end of the Sarri season).

I agree that it's less settled but who would you blame for a squad not being settled half way through the season? Conte/Sarri/... But somehow not Lampard?

I also agree that we have a younger team, in fact that's an argument that can defend Lampard for real here, obviously a younger team will have more difficulty with being consistent when it comes to results. I give you that.

I don't agree about Kante, I think you forgot that he was constantly talked about during that season with Sarri, even Sarri himself needed to answer question about Kante and his position and role and if he should be asked to do the things that Sarri was asking him to do, Sarri responded that he thought that Kante can contribute to our attack but most fans here we unhappy with Kante and I do remember very well that many thought that Kante was basically being wasted and that he stopped being a world class player under Sarri.

Interestingly enough Kante under Sarri had 4 goals 4 assists in the PL that season, that's his best season that I know of when it comes down to him being more effective in the final third, Sarri did prove that Kante can do better in the final third so the critics were wrong there.

Just like with Kante being unusually more effective under Sarri, Hazard had a blast under Sarri, 16 goals 15 assists in the league and in total 21 goals!
That means that Sarri got the best out of Hazard, better than Conte in fact even if we are to compare our title winning season.

I find it very dishonest when people on one hand don't want to put any blame on a manager like Lampard when a player doesn't perform but at the same time don't give any credit to Sarri for the players that did perform under him!

You can't have it both ways, either give credit where it's due or don't get all defensive when someone talks about a possible mismanagement or a player not being used properly, at least Sarri got the best out of Hazard.

Edited January 7, 20215 yr by Gol15

3 hours ago, dkw said:

Now, wheres that pot kettle thing I used earlier....

Give me 2 hours or so and I`ll post seventeen graphs to prove that Sarri`s squad was better than Franks last season, and probably even this season. Will that satisfy you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like f**k I will....

You don't need to do that, I already said that our squad is better right now than under Sarri...

Imagine if Sarri had a decent striker and not Morata, or imagine if he didn't have Kepa... Heck, imagine if Sarri had T.Silva that is by all means one of the best defenders of his generation?

I don't think you would actually want to play that game now do you? If we are going to undermine Sarri's results here because "He had Hazard so it means nothing" how come that argument suddenly doesn't matter when we consider the fact that Lampard has a much better squad in comparison to the one he had just last season?

You see what I just did, I don't even need to mention Sarri here, I can just compare last season's squad and see that this season we have much better players, even our younger players had a full last season to develop and adapt and what not... Yet we are still struggling.

Lampard doesn't need to reach the standard of Sarri, can he reach his own standard from last season, with a better squad?

Remember the "Neal must go " banner at The Bridge ?

patience paid off in the end.

"Outside of the boot" has a good read about Frank's philosophy on the game, tactics etc.

I dunno how to add it to the forum, sorry

Edited January 7, 20215 yr by The Rising Sun
Explanation added

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

I agree that it's less settled but who would you blame for a squad not being settled half way through the season? Conte/Sarri/... But somehow not Lampard?

I also agree that we have a younger team, in fact that's an argument that can defend Lampard for real here, obviously a younger team will have more difficulty with being consistent when it comes to results. I give you that.

I don't agree about Kante, I think you forgot that he was constantly talked about during that season with Sarri, even Sarri himself needed to answer question about Kante and his position and role and if he should be asked to do the things that Sarri was asking him to do, Sarri responded that he thought that Kante can contribute to our attack but most fans here we unhappy with Kante and I do remember very well that many thought that Kante was basically being wasted and that he stopped being a world class player under Sarri.

Interestingly enough Kante under Sarri had 4 goals 4 assists in the PL that season, that's his best season that I know of when it comes down to him being more effective in the final third, Sarri did prove that Kante can do better in the final third so the critics were wrong there.

Just like with Kante being unusually more effective under Sarri, Hazard had a blast under Sarri, 16 goals 15 assists in the league and in total 21 goals!
That means that Sarri got the best out of Hazard, better than Conte in fact even if we are to compare our title winning season.

I find it very dishonest when people on one hand don't want to put any blame on a manager like Lampard when a player doesn't perform but at the same time don't give any credit to Sarri for the players that did perform under him!

You can't have it both ways, either give credit where it's due or don't get all defensive when someone talks about a possible mismanagement or a player not being used properly, at least Sarri got the best out of Hazard.

When it’s Lampard never his fault always someone else  fault. 
This debate will inevitably rage on until either Lampard comes good or he leaves. I come to realise there can’t be a unbiased discussion around Lampard performance simply because he’s Lampard. He could have us finish 6, 7, 8th in the next three years and it still will be someone else fault.

I desperately hope even keeps his job for the three years so we see exactly what he can do.  So at the end of the three years he has gotten the full length of his contract so the loyalists can’t complain about that. 

31 minutes ago, Brutos said:

When it’s Lampard never his fault always someone else  fault. 
This debate will inevitably rage on until either Lampard comes good or he leaves. I come to realise there can’t be a unbiased discussion around Lampard performance simply because he’s Lampard. He could have us finish 6, 7, 8th in the next three years and it still will be someone else fault.

I desperately hope even keeps his job for the three years so we see exactly what he can do.  So at the end of the three years he has gotten the full length of his contract so the loyalists can’t complain about that. 

Almost sounds like you would be happy to see him fail to prove a point to those who still believe in and support Lampard.

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Almost sounds like you would be happy to see him fail to prove a point to those who still believe in and support Lampard.

No I simply said I want him to get his three years so their is no excuses if the club decides to part ways at the end. I have not once called for him to be sack I was opposed to his appointment because he simply doesn’t have the experience at this level or even championship level but accepted it and as one of my favourite player’s I said let’s have a go it is what it is.

Having seen him now for 18 months I have no idea what our plan is, what our goals or the play style we are trying to aim for and even when we were on the unbeaten run I wasn’t convinced it just masked what we are seeing now, WBA was clue to were we were.

So no I don’t want him to fail. 

Some one sent me this today!

43 minutes ago, Richard P said:

Some one sent me this today!

Lol someone went to a lot of trouble for that.

7 hours ago, Brutos said:

When it’s Lampard never his fault always someone else  fault. 
This debate will inevitably rage on until either Lampard comes good or he leaves. I come to realise there can’t be a unbiased discussion around Lampard performance simply because he’s Lampard. He could have us finish 6, 7, 8th in the next three years and it still will be someone else fault.

I desperately hope even keeps his job for the three years so we see exactly what he can do.  So at the end of the three years he has gotten the full length of his contract so the loyalists can’t complain about that. 

To be totally honest here, I would be happy if fans were to treat Lampard differently from how they treated Conte and Sarri.

Otherwise nobody will ever be good enough for the fans, we would be as a collective more spoiled than Real Madrid fans.

To see the high levels of priggery and double standards is pretty sad actually, I have already wondered how many fans would still support Lampard if he were to finish 5th and win the FA Cup?

If he wins the FA Cup and finishes 5th I would still support him just like I supported Conte/Sarri despite knowing that he would leave, so I would be hoping that Lampard in that scenario would stay. 

When Conte won the FA Cup and finished 5th, I was sad that he was leaving and I actually joined this forum on that day when we won the FA Cup final, but I do remember someone telling me how Conte was just so boring with his 30% possession football...

Sarri was also boring but a different kind of boring, boring with his 60% possession football, in fact the consensus here is that Sarri is just bad.
It doesn't matter that he managed to totally change the way we play and still get us back into CL football in more than one way, he was just bad and he simply had no competition in Europa League and in the PL he simply had Hazard, anyone could have done what he had done that season, top 3 finish, playing some Cup finals and beating Arsenal in one of them is super easy... Oh wait...

I saw some openly saying how Lampard should basically eliminate all traces of Sarri. Jorginho is the problem he is only here because Sarri was here! Now that Jorginho's role has been diminished, we look worse but did fans become more humble about their view? Nope, "wHeRe iS tHe miDfieLd?" Wait a minute, I thought you knew the answer to all of our problems, what happen, oh you prefer to never reflect on your previous view? How to lose the plot 101 right there; replace the system with a new unproven idea - the idea doesn't seem to work - let's complain about everyone now because apparently nothing has ever worked!

Anyway rant over, time will show if Lampard's system will work out, I do want it to work and I hope that he will manage to make it work just like Sarri did, Sarri did it with Jorginho so I hope Lampard will make it work with Mount. The season is not over so there is still hope and still time to turn things around.

 

Edited January 8, 20215 yr by Gol15

Can’t believe I’m reading certain fans on here saying the answer is a Kante - Havertz - Ziyech midfield. Think they know better than Frank, want him out  and then suggest that midfield as the answer to our problems haha 

Pressing is our main and biggest issue. Pressing is why we are knackered, pressing is why our positioning is all over the place and why our defence becomes isolated from the midfield with one pass. Pressing is why Mount and Kante are playing dreadfully and why there knackered same with why Werner and pulisic are so out of form. 
 

This shows franks shortcomings as a manager .. pressing doesn’t suit our players it especially doesn’t in the middle of the pandemic with a game every three days. Man United are a counter attacking team and are second in the league because they are fresher from conserving energy. Everyone said we didn’t get the pen against city and heads dropped ? I’m personally certain we was just shattered the press was all disjointed and ridiculous you’ve got Werner Mount and Kante that press the best and all three of them are wildly out of form. 

9 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Almost sounds like you would be happy to see him fail to prove a point to those who still believe in and support Lampard.

Don't be so stupid. These comments annoy me. As if any Chelsea fan wants a manager to fail. I'm pretty sure they would prefer being proved wrong and for him to succeed. One of the dumbest assumptions that could be made.

6 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Lol someone went to a lot of trouble for that.

It's a mental health campaign. 

17 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Our squad is probably better right now than under Sarri, just saying.

I was talking about Frank's last season, not this one. This year we do have a better squad than under Sarri obviously. 

14 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I agree that it's less settled but who would you blame for a squad not being settled half way through the season? Conte/Sarri/... But somehow not Lampard?

I also agree that we have a younger team, in fact that's an argument that can defend Lampard for real here, obviously a younger team will have more difficulty with being consistent when it comes to results. I give you that.

I don't agree about Kante, I think you forgot that he was constantly talked about during that season with Sarri, even Sarri himself needed to answer question about Kante and his position and role and if he should be asked to do the things that Sarri was asking him to do, Sarri responded that he thought that Kante can contribute to our attack but most fans here we unhappy with Kante and I do remember very well that many thought that Kante was basically being wasted and that he stopped being a world class player under Sarri.

Interestingly enough Kante under Sarri had 4 goals 4 assists in the PL that season, that's his best season that I know of when it comes down to him being more effective in the final third, Sarri did prove that Kante can do better in the final third so the critics were wrong there.

Just like with Kante being unusually more effective under Sarri, Hazard had a blast under Sarri, 16 goals 15 assists in the league and in total 21 goals!
That means that Sarri got the best out of Hazard, better than Conte in fact even if we are to compare our title winning season.

I find it very dishonest when people on one hand don't want to put any blame on a manager like Lampard when a player doesn't perform but at the same time don't give any credit to Sarri for the players that did perform under him!

You can't have it both ways, either give credit where it's due or don't get all defensive when someone talks about a possible mismanagement or a player not being used properly, at least Sarri got the best out of Hazard.

Not sure how you can blame or give credit to any Manager for the squads they inherited especially considering the 2 managers in question have 2 and half seasons between them. I haven't blamed Sarri or credited Lampard with anything, it is simply a case of observing the squads they had. A few years down the line I am pretty sure a number of players in our squad will prove to be hugely successful thus proving that we have a much stronger squad in comparison to the squad Sarri had however considering all of last season Lampard spent integrating youth and knitting a style of play together and this season with a huge shakeup he is having to integrate the new signings resulting in an unsettled squad.

If we pick our best 11 currently based on potential (Mendy, Chilwell, Zouma, Silva, James, Mount, Kante, Kai, Pulisic, Werner, Ziyech) only Kante was in the squad under Sarri everyone else has come in under Lampard's tenure so obviously the squad is still integrating and not completely settled. Under Sarri we had over half half the team who had been playing together for years with playing patterns established and with a coach who also had a well established footballing philosophy things were able to work well for us so it's no real surprise we were more consistent and had a well drilled playing style.

Sarri did a fantastic job with us for a season and you can go back and look at my posts I wanted him to carry on with us but he wanted out and therefore the club moved on and appointed Lampard. If Lampard managed the Sarri season and vice versa I would still maintain that the squad this season is more talented but less settled then the one in the 2018/19 season, can't blame the Manager for the unsettled nature even half way through the season due to the abnormalities of the season.

I personally don't think there should be any special loyalties towards an ex-player managing the club. Why should there be? Frank doesn't expect anything else his predecessors have experienced. The club and its wellbeing is always first. You can argue whether keeping Frank is for the best of the club but those decisions come from the board and namely Roman. 

We don't see the day to day from the club. If a manager has clearly lost the players you can only really sense it close by. We have no idea. 

15 hours ago, The Rising Sun said:

Remember the "Neal must go " banner at The Bridge ?

patience paid off in the end.

"Outside of the boot" has a good read about Frank's philosophy on the game, tactics etc.

I dunno how to add it to the forum, sorry

http://outsideoftheboot.com/2020/05/20/tactical-philosophy-frank-lampard/

5 hours ago, bisright1 said:

It's a mental health campaign. 

Ah a cut from a video he made. Clever.

Really good things coming out of Franks mouth as you would expect. 

6 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Don't be so stupid. These comments annoy me. As if any Chelsea fan wants a manager to fail. I'm pretty sure they would prefer being proved wrong and for him to succeed. One of the dumbest assumptions that could be made.

Now I am not one to deny that I have said some dumb things over the years, some of them on here. However asking that question is not one of them.

Have you, in your entire time as football fan, never heard another football fan of any team ever say anything like "I hope we lose this weekend so we can get rid of that useless w*nk*r"? Or "I hope he keeps picking players x and a, his favorites, cause their sh*t and they will get him out the door faster and we can get a proper manager in"?

If not, then count yourself lucky because I have heard it from fans of various teams, including ours, United, Liverpool etc.

I dont know you, Brutos or anyone on here personally to know if anybody on here would share views like those or not in the private of their own lives, so I asked the question.

To some people being proven right in their views that player b or manager c is not good enough for their team is a better option than them proving they are good enough so they can feel smug.

40 minutes ago, evissy said:

Really good things coming out of Franks mouth as you would expect. 

Really good post coming out of your fingers.

Here is a relatively short thread on press conference today

 

27 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Now I am not one to deny that I have said some dumb things over the years, some of them on here. However asking that question is not one of them.

Have you, in your entire time as football fan, never heard another football fan of any team ever say anything like "I hope we lose this weekend so we can get rid of that useless w*nk*r"? Or "I hope he keeps picking players x and a, his favorites, cause their sh*t and they will get him out the door faster and we can get a proper manager in"?

If not, then count yourself lucky because I have heard it from fans of various teams, including ours, United, Liverpool etc.

I dont know you, Brutos or anyone on here personally to know if anybody on here would share views like those or not in the private of their own lives, so I asked the question.

To some people being proven right in their views that player b or manager c is not good enough for their team is a better option than them proving they are good enough so they can feel smug.

Hand on Heart, I said this every week when the Spanish waiter was here!