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Southampton v Chelsea (PL) Sat 20th Feb 2021 12:30 GMT


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I find if we lose after a poor performance I’m usually not watching other games. Bad loser I suppose. So today I’m gonna enjoy my coffee and watch the other games as they all on Telly over here 4 in a row. Just an open question to the more tactically astute posters. Tickle playing same formation as Contes winning season but it seems the emphasis is on controlled possession based around a double 6 in the middle Kova & Jorginho has worked best so far. Conte had an opposite philosophy based on swift countering with same wingbacks used Fab & Kante in front of the 3 or 5 w the latter providing holding mid cover not so much attacking. I know Conte had Costa a proper striker but I think with a couple of exceptions the squads are on a par. Also I know it’s early days for the new manager but so far tickles 3 4 3 is just not as fun to watch even though until today in the prem it felt much more solid. 

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18 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Have our standards really slipped so low that some people will say we played well overall? We didn't play well, we were awful. We didn't test the keeper at all, our passing was slow, the players looked half asleep. It was a good performance for a mid table team, it was a bad performance for a team that was looking to close the gap on the title challengers at the start of the season.

Every time the result is not a win forum goes into meltdown. We played sh.., everything is sh..., players are sh..., coach is sh... The game against Barnsley was awful even though we won it.  Game against Sheffield United was close to awful even though we won it. This one was far from awful in my opinion. We controlled it but haven't created just enough up front to win it.

Yes, many individual players had on and off moments today. Southampton are  not pushovers regardless of their recent results and they put all their players against the ball pressing us well.  

 Yes we spent a lot but this season would always be a transition season. 

I'm disappointed with the result as everyone  else and our players up front need to do much better. TT hasn't been here that long to do miracles and we cannot beat every team in every game just yet. I see improvements how we play, but we are not close to top teams just yet. Maybe next season with some additions to the team.

Which game do you think was much better in terms of team performance regardless of the result that this one?

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17 minutes ago, Nibs said:

No player like to have that done to them dkw but I actually back TT where CHO is concerned. 

He has been playing him more than Lamps and at HT probably gave him clear instructions of what he wanted him to do. Lets face it, he was frustrating. Just before being hooked, he had a clear chance to put one on a plate for a team mate but only found a saints defender. He's not an academy player any more, NOW is the time for him to step up and not put in average performances. At least he knows now he can't cruise through games and what's expected of him.

Hopefully, rather than effect his confidence it could be the making of him.

He has to start now though on Tuesday, to show the manager still has faith in him. Otherwise the message will just have made an unhappy player.

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29 minutes ago, Term_X said:

This whole ‘charity’ club and ‘resurrecting’ teams from the dead is real isn’t it, not even a joke now. Wonder what the actual reality is behind it, Zouma & Kovavic think they can just sleep walk through the game because they’ve been on a long winless run. Mad....

I agree, there is no better tonic for struggling clubs in Europe's top five leagues than Chelsea FC, the amount of times this club has gifted points to out of form teams is incredible.

We're in good mood and in need of points to go up the table, they are dog turd and on an endless losing streak, they (name any struggling club for the past decade or more) always get a point or three and we look w**k.

At this point I don't know what is more frustrating, the state we're in, in terms of gameplay/results/position or the fact that it's almost March and we can't f**king integrate big money signings into the team and we resort to brainless players like Abraham, Zouma and went back to Alonso on the left.

And by the way, what the f**k is wrong with Pulisic? Guy can't seem to stay fit to save his life, for Christ's sake if the issue is chronic, then f**king sell him and buy someone who can stay fit for two weeks in a row.

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8 minutes ago, General said:

I find if we lose after a poor performance I’m usually not watching other games. Bad loser I suppose. So today I’m gonna enjoy my coffee and watch the other games as they all on Telly over here 4 in a row. Just an open question to the more tactically astute posters. Tickle playing same formation as Contes winning season but it seems the emphasis is on controlled possession based around a double 6 in the middle Kova & Jorginho has worked best so far. Conte had an opposite philosophy based on swift countering with same wingbacks used Fab & Kante in front of the 3 or 5 w the latter providing holding mid cover not so much attacking. I know Conte had Costa a proper striker but I think with a couple of exceptions the squads are on a par. Also I know it’s early days for the new manager but so far tickles 3 4 3 is just not as fun to watch even though until today in the prem it felt much more solid. 

This is the only way to play the wingback formation, it is designed to lure teams forward and hit them with a quick pass forwards.

The way we play it is completely counter productive as by the time the ball is actually played forward the opposition have moved back into shape and your extra men are ineffective.

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14 minutes ago, rocker_joker said:

Every time the result is not a win forum goes into meltdown. We played sh.., everything is sh..., players are sh..., coach is sh... The game against Barnsley was awful even though we won it.  Game against Sheffield United was close to awful even though we won it. This one was far from awful in my opinion. We controlled it but haven't created just enough up front to win it.

Yes, many individual players had on and off moments today. Southampton are  not pushovers regardless of their recent results and they put all their players against the ball pressing us well.  

 Yes we spent a lot but this season would always be a transition season. 

I'm disappointed with the result as everyone  else and our players up front need to do much better. TT hasn't been here that long to do miracles and we cannot beat every team in every game just yet. I see improvements how we play, but we are not close to top teams just yet. Maybe next season with some additions to the team.

Which game do you think was much better in terms of team performance regardless of the result that this one?

It's the momentum. We finally have some form of momentum to lose it against Soton just before a big game is not an ideal situation. 

In TT's time? Burnley was better than the results showed imo

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50 minutes ago, abramovich said:

There's some truth to what you're saying but what is Kovacic's value in that midfield? He doesn't create chances with his passing, neither is he a goal scoring threat. He's basically a more elegant version of Kante, a workhorse with some good technical abolity, but quite limited, if you think about it. 

Kovacic? I'd say most agree he's been our best player since Tuchel took over. I consider him to be our best midfielder by a distance and while he was off for the second half today you can't fault his performances lately.

He's at his best with Jorginho though. They have a great connection between them and Jorginho's short and quick passing is perfect for finding Kovacic with space to run into and set up our attacks. Playing him with Kante takes away a lot of that as he's not as quick or as good of a passer as Jorginho is.

Not saying Jorginho is a better player individually but for the team and the way we are playing he's the better fit.

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19 minutes ago, rocker_joker said:

Every time the result is not a win forum goes into meltdown. We played sh.., everything is sh..., players are sh..., coach is sh... The game against Barnsley was awful even though we won it.  Game against Sheffield United was close to awful even though we won it. This one was far from awful in my opinion. We controlled it but haven't created just enough up front to win it.

Yes, many individual players had on and off moments today. Southampton are  not pushovers regardless of their recent results and they put all their players against the ball pressing us well.  

 Yes we spent a lot but this season would always be a transition season. 

I'm disappointed with the result as everyone  else and our players up front need to do much better. TT hasn't been here that long to do miracles and we cannot beat every team in every game just yet. I see improvements how we play, but we are not close to top teams just yet. Maybe next season with some additions to the team.

Which game do you think was much better in terms of team performance regardless of the result that this one?

I am so tired of the "this is a transional season" excuse. I have heard it said so many times over the past decade that you would think every single season is a transitional season for this club. After Ancelotti, transitional season, Villas-Boas / Di Matteo / Benitez, transitional seasons, Mourinho's first season, transitional season, Conte's first season, transitional season until we started looking like we could win the title. Sarri, Lampard, Tuchel, same thing. If we keep going with that mindset then we'll never make any progress.

As for which game I think was much better in terms of team performance........the win against Burnley, the only game we consistently played well in so far under Tuchel and a 20 minute period in the first half against Newcastle. Today was like watching our performance against Wolves, just as sh*t, but a lot sloppier on the ball in midfield. 

I remember when we used to make jokes about keepers putting in worldies to stop us scoring, now a team could put an outfield player in goal and still have it easy.

Edited by Scott Harris
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18 minutes ago, General said:

I find if we lose after a poor performance I’m usually not watching other games. Bad loser I suppose. So today I’m gonna enjoy my coffee and watch the other games as they all on Telly over here 4 in a row. Just an open question to the more tactically astute posters. Tickle playing same formation as Contes winning season but it seems the emphasis is on controlled possession based around a double 6 in the middle Kova & Jorginho has worked best so far. Conte had an opposite philosophy based on swift countering with same wingbacks used Fab & Kante in front of the 3 or 5 w the latter providing holding mid cover not so much attacking. I know Conte had Costa a proper striker but I think with a couple of exceptions the squads are on a par. Also I know it’s early days for the new manager but so far tickles 3 4 3 is just not as fun to watch even though until today in the prem it felt much more solid. 

we had Matic with Kante in the middle back then. Once the opponent is tired, we brought Cesc on to open the game up

I agree with everything else though

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58 minutes ago, Chelsbear said:

Midfield is laughably poor, they can pass it all day side to side and backwards but ask them to pick out a forward defence splitting pass and the 300k plus a week we spend on them musters nothing. 

Needs addresses as it's been stale since Cesc left and we don't need Kante, Jorginho and Koavic who are all one of the same thing. It's piss boring to watch and kills all momentum. 

Not Tuchel fault as he's inherited it but if he wants to be successful he needs to rebuild that midfield altogether. 

We might be able to put this down to a number of things i) too many managers in a short space of time, thereby philosophies and types of players each manager needs changed; while it can be said that Kante was liked by all recently, and is probably the best in the world for what he does when he plays in his rightful position; the other two positions in midfield are where over the years we have lost the plot.  We have no goalscorer since Frank left the club so goals from midfield have dried up to compensate for a bad day up front and we have no one that can play a slide rule pass, or think outside the pass to make the special pass, since Cesc left. ii) Up front the same problem has been created. We don't have a winger that can or won't drive at the full back, take them on and actually beat them and either deliver a cross, or even continue driving to the box like we had with Robben and Duff.  And to add to our woes we have not had a proper CF since the likes of Drogba and Costa.  

This 'tippy tappy' possession based football that every one seems to want these days has done nothing except produce a generation of players that can pass 5-10 yards sideways, and I think we went out and bought most of them in recent times based on what I have seen over the last few seasons. What happened to the idea of the game that you try and score as many goals as you can against your opponent rather than having 90% possession of the ball.   

Certainly the club needs a massive clear out in the summer and if they are serious about making a challenge next year on all fronts then certainly we need to sort out the midfield and the forward line.  Having 22 talented players is one thing, getting the right combination and playing as a complete team is another, Sarri struggled, Frank struggled and it will interesting to see  if TT struggles with this group especially trying to sort out the midfield.   

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3 minutes ago, CFCCAN said:

This 'tippy tappy' possession based football that every one seems to want these days has done nothing except produce a generation of players that can pass 5-10 yards sideways, and I think we went out and bought most of them in recent times based on what I have seen over the last few seasons. What happened to the idea of the game that you try and score as many goals as you can against your opponent rather than having 90% possession of the ball.   

Exactly. People confused Guardiola's idea of football with Possession-based football. 

Guardiola never emphasized possession first. His methods have always been get the ball from the opponent then open up space then score. 

Passing just for the sake of it is just pointless

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Just now, doctorblue said:

I like Tuchel's ruthless streak...taking CHO and publicly digging him out for his lack of effort...reminds me of Mourinho and Ashley Cole...I've got good feelings about Tuchel...he'll get the players motivated or he'll ship them out...

Easy to dig out the youngsters. If Tuchel is consistent with it and does the same with the experienced players, then fair enough, but right now, my gut feeling is telling me he is just shifting the blame on to the youngster to take the focus off his own failings today.

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1 hour ago, dkw said:

Threw CHO under the bus there, that will do his confidence some good.

That was all about sending a strong message to the other players; he could have picked on several players because he was pissed within 5 mins of the game starting. He says CHO's body language was not good and wasn't up for it, so he made a decision, right or wrong to hook him. Personally I like that, as it says 'I'm not putting up with these half arsed performances and attitude'  we see this in the NHL all the time when the team lets in several sloppy goals, even when its not the goalies fault, the coach changes the goalie to send a message to the other players, then when they wake up he puts him back in again. It also tells me that TT wants to win and won't settle for 2nd best...you have to perform or you are off.   CHO will recover and perform better next game...bet he starts against AM. 

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Disappointing result today, and by far the worst performance so far under TT.

What frustrates me more than anything is when we get to the final third or inside the area, our decision making and final pass is so poor.

It does'nt seem to matter what player is on the ball, the end product is always the same.

Surely if i notice this then the Chelsea Coaching staff must see it? Im so f**ked off with us getting in great areas only to hit the first defender, or a lazy pass goes astray, or picking the wrong option.

Im sure most other teams can only dream of gettting in the areas we consistantly get in to.

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2 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Disappointing result today, and by far the worst performance so far under TT.

What frustrates me more than anything is when we get to the final third or inside the area, our decision making and final pass is so poor.

It does'nt seem to matter what player is on the ball, the end product is always the same.

Surely if i notice this then the Chelsea Coaching staff must see it? Im so f**ked off with us getting in great areas only to hit the first defender, or a lazy pass goes astray, or picking the wrong option.

Im sure most other teams can only dream of gettting in the areas we consistantly get in to.

It pisses me off even more when the opponent scores one like it was nothing. Look at the Minamino goal and how easy it looked. 1 throughball, a dummy then goal. 

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2 minutes ago, Deino said:

It pisses me off even more when the opponent scores one like it was nothing. Look at the Minamino goal and how easy it looked. 1 throughball, a dummy then goal. 

This is one of the major issues with our attacking game compared to most of the other teams around us. They spot the gaps, they play the pass, we spot the pass, we hesitate, and just like that, the chance is gone. A perfect example of this was a few weeks back when Havertz was making all of the right movements into space, the pass never came, the same happened again with Werner like a week later. There seems to be lack of courage in this team, they seem too afraid to play the pass when it's on. 

There was another example of it today. Southampton lost the ball deep in their own half, Mount ended up picking up the ball in a 2v2 situation, but instead of playing a quick pass into Werner or to the left with Alonso unmarked running in at goal, he keeps running forward, tried to beat his man and ends up getting fouled. I can't help but feel that most teams would have taken that chance and punished Southampton in that situation.

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1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

This is one of the major issues with our attacking game compared to most of the other teams around us. They spot the gaps, they play the pass, we spot the pass, we hesitate, and just like that, the chance is gone. A perfect example of this was a few weeks back when Havertz was making all of the right movements into space, the pass never came, the same happened again with Werner like a week later. There seems to be lack of courage in this team, they seem too afraid to play the pass when it's on. 

There was another example of it today. Southampton lost the ball deep in their own half, Mount ended up picking up the ball in a 2v2 situation, but instead of playing a quick pass into Werner or to the left with Alonso unmarked running in at goal, he keeps running forward, tried to beat his man and ends up getting fouled. I can't help but feel that most teams would have taken that chance and punished Southampton in that situation.

Is that the one where Alonso got the ball, had an opportunity to shoot or drive a further 3 yards to a 1v1 with the keeper then he slows down to get the freekick? Because if so, I agree with you! 

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29 minutes ago, Deino said:

Is that the one where Alonso got the ball, had an opportunity to shoot or drive a further 3 yards to a 1v1 with the keeper then he slows down to get the freekick? Because if so, I agree with you! 

Yeah I thought that was odd, it was almost like he thought "I might not score this and then we'll miss out on the free kick which I would of taken".

To me it's a mentality thing, a Liverpool or Man City forward would try their utmost to score and then moan at the referee afterwards if need be, and to be fair to Anthony Taylor he was happy to play an advantage that Alonso clearly didn't want to take.

Edited by 2211
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It is rare to see a sub withdrawn, barring injury or a tactical decision after a red card. In CHO's case he wasn't playing well but he wasn't our worst player at that point. Instead we replaced him with Ziyech who is woefully off form and we took a step backwards for the rest of the game if anything. I am sure Tuchel was asked to explain the subbing of CHO because he came on as sub but he could have chosen to say it was to try a different tactical idea rather than put the blame on CHO. In fact I think he should have put the blame on himself since his decision to bring on Ziyech backfired. Personally I think players should be able to take public criticism constructively, but generally speaking it doesn't seem to work out well for managers when they take this option.

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Not long ago some were having a go at our excoach for calling out the players, what's changed now that Tuchel calling out CHO's effort today is OK? I'm ok with the coach having a go and saying if a player isn't pulling his weight, but I am consistent in that, I don't care who says so if it's right.

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