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Guehi, is now gone. 

Prospects Tino Livramento, Lewis Bate and Myles Peart-Harris are believed to be stalling on new contracts and have not been included in the first-team’s squad for their pre-season training camp in Scotland.

Defender Dynel Simeu, another member of the Blues’ under-23s side, is apparently cOnsidering leaving. 

 

That is a lot of young talent leaving While Chelsea can't keep e everyone,there is a lot of first squad players on their last year,including Azpi, Rudiger, Silva, Christenson, etc. 

 

The matching clause to players sales literally has no weight either. Why not include a buy back clause instead? 

Edited by TheGreatestGame
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Why do you assume that it's not?

Now that it's reported a few academy players have left or are supposedly looking to leave, there has been a lot of handwringing about this. No idea why. Chelsea is a club with high asperations, and as with other high level clubs, the number of academy players making it into the first team and actually establishing themselves as regular starters, is very low. If we were to give every youngster who has managed their way from the under 8s to the development squad a cast-iron opportunity "to prove themselves", squad places we need for high quality, proven professionals (you know, to win that silverware we all want) would be taken up by more kids than is now the case. And for what, 30 minutes in a League cup match? Or we'd have even more players out on loan than we already have. 

It's only the supporters who have the romantic dream of having at least 5 academy players being a Mr. Chelsea, and demand patience of them. Why would the want-aways put their careers practically on hold for one or more seasons for the uncertainty of being on the fringe of the first squad? Or to go on loan after loan after loan until they're well into their twenties? We can't blame them for their desire to play regular football. They may have a soft spot for Chelsea having developed them, but this is a tough profession. They know the chance of them making it into the elite is extremely small. So they chose to play for a "lesser club" and when they're good enough they go on to bigger things. When they're not, they continue to make their living outside of the spotlights of Premier League title contenders or the Champions League. After investing in them, the club makes money out of them. 

This is how it's always been. If it were otherwise, we never would have bought Cech, Lampard, Drogba, Makalele, Kanté, you name them. We would also be in a much lower league. 

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Tino is has a big Reece James size obstacle in his path as well as Dave and the club have apparently been looking to sign another right-back so you can’t blame him for looking for first team football. 
 

Bate and Peart-Harris have Kante, Jorginho, Kova, Mount and Billy Gilmour hopefully to contend with as well as us currently having Barkley, RLC, Bakayoko and Drinkwater back at the club. Can’t blame them either. 
 

Dynel Simeu is from Southampton and should be sold anyway.

Part of coming through the academy is also having luck at coming through at the right time when the squad needs you (unless you’re a generational talent) unfortunately.

You can’t blame the players for wanting to play during their short careers. 

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I suppose it's difficult to balance. We are blessed to have such a talented academy that unfortunately we can't play all of them. That's why if we can't loan then we sell with buy back or sell on. @Munkworth is right, of the 4 leaving, realistically Livramento & Bate are the only real loses.

 

Simeu - realistically never making first team. If Guehi/Tomori couldn't get a look in then Simeu was never going to. Plus he's competing with Silva, Christensen, Zouma, Rudiger, Sarr and the other academy guys of Mbuyamba, Chalobah and Colwill.

Peart-Harris - Havertz, Werner, CHO, Pulisic, Mount plus Anjorin, RLC and maybe even Musonda/Barkley competing. Sadly again not much chance.

Bate - Bit of a bad loss but if we got £5-8m for him which we might as still some time on contract and we get sell on/buy back/matched offer then we can't be unhappy with someone whose never played a first team game. He's got stiff competition in Jorginho, Kova, Mount, Kante, Gallagher, RLC, Barkley, Chalobah, Gilmour so can't really blame him and would do well in Bielsa system. 

Livramento - This would suck but nothing we can do especially if Milan etc came calling. I'd rather see him go overseas than be UK based. James will be a real issue as bedded in and Azpi is there too. I think Tuchel quite likes Sterling as well as looked at him at Dortmund. 

Then you have to consider the success that Tomori, Lamptey, Sancho,Madueke etc have had away from UK football. European teams and smaller teams will put these lads straight in and you can't blame them. We benefitted for years from the loan system but sadly we are suffering from our own success. 

However, you have to remember there is Broja, Cumming, Maatsen, Colwill, Gilmour, Anjorin, Mbuyamba, Haigh, Fiabema, Soonsup-Bell, Rakine, Vale, Webster, Olise, Castledine etc who can come in as exciting prospects... i think we will be ok 🙂

 

 

 

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Bate is the one I'm most gutted about as someone who's judgement I trust thinks he's better than Gilmour.

Livra I'll reserve judgement until we know our long term formation. Strange he's going to Brighton with Lamptey Infront though.

Peart Harris has too many Infront of him.

The academy has become a victim of it's own success unfortunately, atleast we got Mando over the line and hopefully Soonsup Bell will follow his lead next season.

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Can you imagine if we never got James or Mount established? We would be gutted. 
 

Some of these lads would be be better than Zappacosta, Barkley etc who add nothing to the squad. 
 

 

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Fee agreed for Bate to Leeds is £1.5m. Includes add on’s and sell on fee. 
 

Brighton close to agreeing a deal for Toni as well.  
 

I hope the club have manage to agree some sort of buy back clause so there’s some hope of us getting them back if needed. 

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2 hours ago, JM7 said:

Fee agreed for Bate to Leeds is £1.5m. Includes add on’s and sell on fee. 
 

Brighton close to agreeing a deal for Toni as well.  
 

I hope the club have manage to agree some sort of buy back clause so there’s some hope of us getting them back if needed. 

Just a sell on clause. I know some fans will argue that we make a lot of money off our academy sale, however if one of these youth players turn into a £40m in a year or 2 it will be a tough one to swallow.

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1 hour ago, TheGreatestGame said:

I don't understand why Chelsea doesn't use buy back clauses. Matching clauses don't really mean anything as any team can top that if they want the player. 

I know, we have put buy back clauses in on a few deals. Maybe it’s the buying clubs that are resisting them as it offers them no protection. I heard with Gheui (?) that we put a “matching fee” clause in which is not too bad. 
 

With someone like Tino, you suspect that we should try to put a buy back clause in. Unfortunately the majority of players will never become elite players. Tino sounds like a good prospect. 

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1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Livramento to Brighton seems a really strange one seeing as they just took Lamptey off us too.

They would do what we should have done with Lamptey & James; play the more attacking one at FB/WB, and the more defensive one as a 3rd CB in a back 3/DM.

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5 hours ago, ducavis said:

They would do what we should have done with Lamptey & James; play the more attacking one at FB/WB, and the more defensive one as a 3rd CB in a back 3/DM.

I think they are both attacking LOL. Certainly wouldn't see either as a centre back, especially Lamptey. Can't ever recall any pro team with a 5'5" CB 🙂

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Maybe this would not be as big an issue as it seems now if the Clubs had B teams playing in the lower leagues like in Spain. For example, all big/traditional teams like Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atletico de Madrid, Athletic Club Bilbao, have teams that play in the Championship or a level below (Barcelona B, Castilla, Atletico B, Bilbao Athletic) where their academy players play for a few years at a high competitive level and then they either make it to the first team or leave to other Clubs. That seems to me to be a good system where most youngsters will develop within the Club rather than going on loan. Not all make it to the first team, but they are at a competitive level and feed other La Liga teams.

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20 hours ago, TheGreatestGame said:

I don't understand why Chelsea doesn't use buy back clauses. Matching clauses don't really mean anything as any team can top that if they want the player. 

The negotiations are not like Fifa. When a bid comes in, lawyers and general managers are involved to take a look at the bid plus a lot of revisions. 

Sometimes you get clauses and sometimes you don't

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Ye I can imagine the buying clubs will more or less insist they don't want a buy back amount inserted. Its mainly only Spanish clubs that operate that way. The best we can hope for is to be given notification that a bid has come in and we get first refusal or the chance to match the fee. But that isn't really anything, its just them informing us of a bid we would probably know about anyway. Selling on fee would be useful as well, as long as the % is decent. 

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3 hours ago, Oli said:

Ye I can imagine the buying clubs will more or less insist they don't want a buy back amount inserted. Its mainly only Spanish clubs that operate that way. The best we can hope for is to be given notification that a bid has come in and we get first refusal or the chance to match the fee. But that isn't really anything, its just them informing us of a bid we would probably know about anyway. Selling on fee would be useful as well, as long as the % is decent. 

Chances are an exiting player is extremely unlikely to become a world class player. It's not happened yet and so priority should be getting as big a fee as possible. 

Losing 10% or 20% of the fee to add a buy back clause that probably won't be used, and can only be used if the player actually wants to rejoin. Not worth it. 

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Agreed, we had first refusal on Ake, and did not want to take it. A sell on fee would be been better, although in his case we did actually transfer him for a fair chunk, so I guess that wasn't going to be included. 

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On 21/07/2021 at 16:12, ducavis said:

They would do what we should have done with Lamptey & James; play the more attacking one at FB/WB, and the more defensive one as a 3rd CB in a back 3/DM.

Livramento’s strength is in attack and Lamptey is about 5’5. None of them have the profile of James to fill in at RCB IMO.

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