29 minutes ago, just said:

Keeps on playing like that then him Kova and Kante are gonna boss a lot of midfields.

And leave loads of gaps in midfield. 

2 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

And leave loads of gaps in midfield. 

Why?

2 minutes ago, just said:

Why?

They are three of the same. Who exactly is staying back?

Just now, Sconnie Blue said:

They are three of the same. Who exactly is staying back?

At the risk of repeating my firmly held belief Sconnie. The best midfielders, and the best systems, are capable of doing both. Who sits and stays back ALL the time at City? At Arsenal? 

The best midfielders read the situation and respond accordingly. If they have the athleticism, stamina, pace they can make recovery runs and recovery tackles look simple. They can close space down quickly. Yes, occasionally something can go wrong, that's football. But so too with a system that has a player who does stay back but does not have the athleticism, stamina and pace to cover ground and gets played round easily. As we have seen, you end having to have other players protecting him and doing a large portion of his job.

Nice game from him, really liked what he brought. We’ll have to see how he fares with the PL intensity, but he did well in my opinion. I’m looking forward to seeing him play more. Hopefully he’s not badly injured.

 

Promising partnership with Jorginho tonight. Possibly a bit too early to play in a high intensity match on Sunday but promising signs going forward.

Thankfully not injured. Maybe we will see if at some point vs Arsenal.

2 hours ago, Munkworth said:

I honestly can’t afford it, I didn’t realise just how ridiculously overpriced football shirts had become. 

 

2 hours ago, Munkworth said:

One with very little disposable income. It’ll have to wait until I’ve done my Christmas shopping. 

Keeping a lady like @CaitlinCFCin a manner she is accustomed too a drain on you my friend?

49 minutes ago, just said:

At the risk of repeating my firmly held belief Sconnie. The best midfielders, and the best systems, are capable of doing both. Who sits and stays back ALL the time at City? At Arsenal? 

The best midfielders read the situation and respond accordingly. If they have the athleticism, stamina, pace they can make recovery runs and recovery tackles look simple. They can close space down quickly. Yes, occasionally something can go wrong, that's football. But so too with a system that has a player who does stay back but does not have the athleticism, stamina and pace to cover ground and gets played round easily. As we have seen, you end having to have other players protecting him and doing a large portion of his job.

You are suggesting three #8s by nature, who have played this role their entire life, should somehow know the role of a holding/defensive midfielder and have the instinctive abilities and awareness to position themselves correctly in defensive transition?

If this were true Kante would be our best DM ever. Even when Pep plays Gundoghan at DM, City are vulnerable at the break. 

3 hours ago, Munkworth said:

One with very little disposable income. It’ll have to wait until I’ve done my Christmas shopping. 

Let’s do a go fund me - I’m in for a tenner also. 
 

Think of it like this - that’s a real collectors item. Who else would own that tragic third kit with Z’s name on it. 

Good debut, winning goal, didn’t look out of place. It’s all hands on deck around here lately so if he’s needed play the lad. Not an EPL starter yet but a cameo before January maybe? 

Hopefully we can see more of him, and less of RLC, in the next 3 games.

5 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

Let’s do a go fund me - I’m in for a tenner also. 
 

Think of it like this - that’s a real collectors item. Who else would own that tragic third kit with Z’s name on it. 

That’s £20! If I remortgage I’ll be halfway there!

Seriously the one shirt with a name is more expensive than when I went full kit w**ker with that fetching pink number for the CL final!

Edited November 3, 20223 yr by Munkworth

 

At £2.7M per goal he's already a better value "transfer" than a few I can think of LOL ... yes Romelu ... that includes you 🙂 

7 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

You are suggesting three #8s by nature, who have played this role their entire life, should somehow know the role of a holding/defensive midfielder and have the instinctive abilities and awareness to position themselves correctly in defensive transition?

If this were true Kante would be our best DM ever. Even when Pep plays Gundoghan at DM, City are vulnerable at the break. 

I don't think you have watched city play. City secret recipes to stop transition is not Gundo not even rodri. It is Kyle walker who happen to be super fast 

There is no magic In stopping transition. You can come out with magical structures or whatever positional nonsense you want to use. The most important thing is you need to stop runner. If you are in 100% perfect position and the runner blows past you as if you are not there then it doesn't matter. 

Edited November 3, 20223 yr by Bob stark

7 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

You are suggesting three #8s by nature, who have played this role their entire life, should somehow know the role of a holding/defensive midfielder and have the instinctive abilities and awareness to position themselves correctly in defensive transition?

If this were true Kante would be our best DM ever. Even when Pep plays Gundoghan at DM, City are vulnerable at the break. 

Not like it has never been done before though is it?

Ballack            Essien.         Lampard

DiMatteo.         Wise.           Newton

Where is the sit and stay midfielder here? Both midfields pretty decent in their time.

The only two players I can think of who were "sit and stay" were Obi-Mikel and Makele. I assume even Jorginho's biggest fan would admit he isn't even in the same ballpark as Maka in the role. Obi-Mikel? Bit different. Quite a lot parallels there in terms of how slow he was.

 

 

11 hours ago, goose said:

Trying not to get too excited about his debut but there were a lot of things I liked.

I thought he was mature in the way he handled himself and didn’t chase around trying to impress but played his natural game. He’s strong and he looked fast.

He was calm with his finish, concentrated on getting a good firm strike on target. How many of our players would have blasted it over the bar. 

After a couple of interceptions he played a couple of really good quick firm forward passes for forwards to run on too.

Early days but he should be getting  more regular minutes if tonight performance was anything to go by.
 

Agreed. The thing that caught my eye goose were the sweeping left to right passes out to the wings. 

Potter doesn't seem to have worked out his midfield yet, but I hopes he gets some good minutes to show himself and doesn't end up like Saul with very few opportunities and then eviscerated for being rusty when he barely played. 

1 hour ago, just said:

Not like it has never been done before though is it?

Ballack            Essien.         Lampard

DiMatteo.         Wise.           Newton

Where is the sit and stay midfielder here? Both midfields pretty decent in their time.

The only two players I can think of who were "sit and stay" were Obi-Mikel and Makele. I assume even Jorginho's biggest fan would admit he isn't even in the same ballpark as Maka in the role. Obi-Mikel? Bit different. Quite a lot parallels there in terms of how slow he was.

 

 

Yeah, it seems odd that players are so often pigeon-holed when of course, especially at this level, they are able to follow tactical instructions that might go counter to their natural footballing instincts. Mikel was leading the midfield press towards the end of his Chelsea years, Eddie "what's a holding midfielder?" Newton managed it, even Ross Barkley managed it under Sarri!

He looked really comfortable last night. Now my question is this, why has it taken so long for him to see a single minute of football? I understand needing time to settle, but that doesn't mean seeing zero minutes of football. His performance last night was better than anything I have seen from Loftus-Cheek in 2 seasons in midfield, so how has Loftus-Cheek found himself playing more football for us in midfield than anybody else?

Same goes for Chukwuemeka. Everytime that kid has come onto the pitch, he's been positive.

I'm not liking the apparent favourtism going on in this squad under Potter. Just look at Aubameyang, he probably hasn't had a single top performance for us yet, but Broja still can't get his chance, and instead of finally allowing Pulisic to play at LW, in a formation that was actually more suited to his skillset, Potter plays Aubameyang there.

3 hours ago, just said:

Not like it has never been done before though is it?

Ballack            Essien.         Lampard

DiMatteo.         Wise.           Newton

Where is the sit and stay midfielder here? Both midfields pretty decent in their time.

The only two players I can think of who were "sit and stay" were Obi-Mikel and Makele. I assume even Jorginho's biggest fan would admit he isn't even in the same ballpark as Maka in the role. Obi-Mikel? Bit different. Quite a lot parallels there in terms of how slow he was.

 

 

I've never got this sitting midfielder argument, all 3 know how to stay if needs be, a bit of communication is all it needs, 2 go, one knows to stay. Its no different to the midfielders covering the wing backs when they bomb on. Attacking and midfield players rarely now hold a position, just because the graphic on sky shows them as wingers, doesnt mean they are wingers.

4 hours ago, just said:

Not like it has never been done before though is it?

Ballack            Essien.         Lampard

DiMatteo.         Wise.           Newton

Where is the sit and stay midfielder here? Both midfields pretty decent in their time.

The only two players I can think of who were "sit and stay" were Obi-Mikel and Makele. I assume even Jorginho's biggest fan would admit he isn't even in the same ballpark as Maka in the role. Obi-Mikel? Bit different. Quite a lot parallels there in terms of how slow he was.

 

 

Well just because its been done before doesn't make it effective. Managers rarely put out a team that doesn't have at least one defensive midfielder. 

Mourinho rarely played Essien as a sole DM ahead of Makelele or Mikel. He used him at CM or at RB for emergencies. 

Ancelotti favored Mikel over Essien at DM. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Well just because its been done before doesn't make it effective. Managers rarely put out a team that doesn't have at least one defensive midfielder. 

Mourinho rarely played Essien as a sole DM ahead of Makelele or Mikel. He used him at CM or at RB for emergencies. 

Ancelotti favored Mikel over Essien at DM. 

 

 

You are completely missing the point. Defensive midfielders, all for that. But a one position DM that just sits and stays? Unless it's a freak like Makele who was so good the defenders behind could smoke a cigar and read a paper most of the time. No thanks. It's too limiting.

No other EPL side has a DM like Jorginho who just sits, stays and recycles. No running with the ball. Rarely getting into the opponent's final third. Generally conservative passing over short distances. Glen Hoddle made a great point at the end of the game last night. He said Jorginho had a good game, (he did), and really linked things together. But then he qualified that statement massively when he said that he wasn't pressed at all and had loads of space to do his stuff.

2 minutes ago, just said:

You are completely missing the point. Defensive midfielders, all for that. But a one position DM that just sits and stays? Unless it's a freak like Makele who was so good the defenders behind could smoke a cigar and read a paper most of the time. No thanks. It's too limiting.

No other EPL side has a DM like Jorginho who just sits, stays and recycles. No running with the ball. Rarely getting into the opponent's final third. Generally conservative passing over short distances. Glen Hoddle made a great point at the end of the game last night. He said Jorginho had a good game, (he did), and really linked things together. But then he qualified that statement massively when he said that he wasn't pressed at all and had loads of space to do his stuff.

City have Rodri. 

Liverpool have Fabinho

United have Casemiro

Arsenal have Partey

Madrid have Tchouameni

Bayern have Kimmich

 

Where are you getting no side in the EPL has a natural defensive midfielder in the team, let alone world football? The closest player that does what Jorginho does is Busquets but even they still have the responsibility of protecting the gaps in midfield and backline. That is my point.

The mistake you are making is not only suggesting Kovacic, Kante, and Zakaria merely need to only 'be instructed tactically' to stay back and protect the midfield, but to think they have the qualities to do so, ala Rodri, Fabinho, Partey, etc. Qualities you develop playing early in your career vs the latter stages. You can't ask them to play a completely new role and think it will be successful. 

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

He looked really comfortable last night. Now my question is this, why has it taken so long for him to see a single minute of football? I understand needing time to settle, but that doesn't mean seeing zero minutes of football. His performance last night was better than anything I have seen from Loftus-Cheek in 2 seasons in midfield, so how has Loftus-Cheek found himself playing more football for us in midfield than anybody else?

Same goes for Chukwuemeka. Everytime that kid has come onto the pitch, he's been positive.

I'm not liking the apparent favourtism going on in this squad under Potter. Just look at Aubameyang, he probably hasn't had a single top performance for us yet, but Broja still can't get his chance, and instead of finally allowing Pulisic to play at LW, in a formation that was actually more suited to his skillset, Potter plays Aubameyang there.

Exactly this. Zakaria has been on the bench almost every game Potter has managed. Why has he not been used as a 10 minute sub or 20 minute sub to build up his fitness. 

with Kante out, Kova carrying an injury what is the reason for not helping Zakaria build up his match fitness?