2 minutes ago, CaitlinCFC said:

@JM7 was saying we should not accept it.

He's mentioning it as a possibility, to which I couldn't disagree more. 

To be fair I don't believe for 1 second that the players would accept not winning matches themselves, the club has built a certain standard in the last 20+ years and I believe that everyone at the club are hyper-aware of that.

Potter will eventually be under heavy pressure if the squad underperforms and there is also a risk that he loses the dressingroom as well if things don't go as planned. When you look at the most recent starting lineups you don't really find a player that would accept mediocrity and even when T.Silva eventually leaves, that isn't going to change overnight.

Potter bashing continues.... doesn't change anything as he's still the manager until he's sacked like every manager before him. However, his appointment is like Sarri meets Grant meets the fat Spanish waiter all wrapped into one and most fans don't seem to accept that Roman isn't our owner and the Americans will do things their way until they decide otherwise. Roman has gone, Tuchel has gone, get behind the club, players and manager until it changes. 

My last thoughts on Potter... We are now being run very differently to life under Roman, Im guessing CFC don't want to pay off more in compensation - (Last time I checked) paying off managers has cost currently around 250 million since Roman took over and departed. 

We have players no longer capable playing the high pressing game... We have players approaching retirement Silva/ Dave... We've just signed an entire first team, see forest this season on how that integration is going... There are massive restructurings taking place behind the scenes and have an academy that has helped lift the CL in the past few years. 

Yet, Fans still think that the downward trajectory of the entire club since winning the CL is solely down to the manager and replacing him will see us become overnight champions. Life under touchel was joyless and its continued under potter, but I am an optimist and think we're starting to see shoots of change on the pitch, we are hard to beat and still have huge issues doing the very basic of football, scoring goals. I do Fancy us against Dortmund second leg, really hope we pick up 9 points in the league with the next few games. Im supportive of the club not the manager, they come and go, regularly at CFC, I don't get why so many adults are throwing their rattles out of the pram tbh... We've not won anything since the Champions league and that's likely to happy this season as well, unless potter does the unthinkable and wins the CL.

If we're to have another up cycle challenging for the league then perhaps we need to fundamentally change the way the club is structured and run. Seems not many people understand this... 

 

18 hours ago, Edjmendy said:

It's the coach that makes all the difference!!!

I'd say it was more the 5x UCL winner coming in but each to their own.

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

Jose Mourinho: “When you start accepting defeats just because your team played well and just because your players gave their best, A performance to be proud of…I think when you get used to it, that’s when the big clubs stop being big clubs.” 
 

This is my worry with Potter. Our standards have dropped and we’ll accept mediocrity. Potter has to be more demanding. 

Within four games of his return here Jose was raving about our performance in a defeat at Goodison Park.

He was also constantly talking up draws in his first season at United because they "dominated".

He made those quotes to have a dig at Lampard, there's not a manager in world football who doesn't analyse games below the top line to take both positives and negatives out of games regardless of result.

Edited February 17, 20233 yr by Argo

47 minutes ago, Blueboys said:

😂😂 glad I don’t work for any of our fans posting here! They’d sack me 3 months in for not getting the team they’d given me 2.5 months in doing what they are supposed to be to an extremely high level 2 weeks later

Since when is asking Potter to get us performing better than a team sitting 15th or lower an extremely high level?

15 minutes ago, Argo said:

Within four games of his return here Jose was raving about our performance in a defeat at Goodison Park.

He was also constantly talking up draws in his first season at United because they "dominated".

He made those quotes to have a dig at Lampard, there's not a manager in world football who doesn't analyse games below the top line to take both positives and negatives out of games regardless of result.

Agreed. Results are ultimately the goal and determine how successful we will be. But when you are a team in transition you look for the performances to improve first, hoping that the results will follow. In recent weeks I have at least seen some signs of improvement. We are now creating a lot more chances which is important. The next step is to start taking a reasonable percentage of our chances and the results should improve too. It is not all about having a striker in that regard too. We have plenty of attacking players that ought to be able to provide a decent number of goals. A miss in front of goal is a miss regardless of what position you play.

8 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Agreed. Results are ultimately the goal and determine how successful we will be. But when you are a team in transition you look for the performances to improve first, hoping that the results will follow. In recent weeks I have at least seen some signs of improvement. We are now creating a lot more chances which is important. The next step is to start taking a reasonable percentage of our chances and the results should improve too. It is not all about having a striker in that regard too. We have plenty of attacking players that ought to be able to provide a decent number of goals. A miss in front of goal is a miss regardless of what position you play.

To further expand on what I've said these were Tuchel's words when we drew at home to eventually relegated Burnley last season.

"We played a fantastic match. Of course I'm disappointed.

If we played this game 100 times, we'd win 99 times. Today we didn't win it. The second goal would have decided it. It's always possible you miss one ball, one cross, and this can happen".

The idea that a) playing well but not winning is exclusive to "loser" managers and b) elite managers don't praise performances when it happens to them is up there with the biggest load of nonsense I've ever heard.

1 hour ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Potter bashing continues.... doesn't change anything as he's still the manager until he's sacked like every manager before him. However, his appointment is like Sarri meets Grant meets the fat Spanish waiter all wrapped into one and most fans don't seem to accept that Roman isn't our owner and the Americans will do things their way until they decide otherwise. Roman has gone, Tuchel has gone, get behind the club, players and manager until it changes. 

My last thoughts on Potter... We are now being run very differently to life under Roman, Im guessing CFC don't want to pay off more in compensation - (Last time I checked) paying off managers has cost currently around 250 million since Roman took over and departed. 

We have players no longer capable playing the high pressing game... We have players approaching retirement Silva/ Dave... We've just signed an entire first team, see forest this season on how that integration is going... There are massive restructurings taking place behind the scenes and have an academy that has helped lift the CL in the past few years. 

Yet, Fans still think that the downward trajectory of the entire club since winning the CL is solely down to the manager and replacing him will see us become overnight champions. Life under touchel was joyless and its continued under potter, but I am an optimist and think we're starting to see shoots of change on the pitch, we are hard to beat and still have huge issues doing the very basic of football, scoring goals. I do Fancy us against Dortmund second leg, really hope we pick up 9 points in the league with the next few games. Im supportive of the club not the manager, they come and go, regularly at CFC, I don't get why so many adults are throwing their rattles out of the pram tbh... We've not won anything since the Champions league and that's likely to happy this season as well, unless potter does the unthinkable and wins the CL.

If we're to have another up cycle challenging for the league then perhaps we need to fundamentally change the way the club is structured and run. Seems not many people understand this... 

 

We won the Club World Cup and the Uefa Supercup just last season. You can dress it how you want but fact is we are in a run of 2 wins in 14 games. We are not hard to beat at all. 

I judged Tuchel way way way too harshly compared to when Potter came in. My expectation with Tuchel was winning against Atleti and he pushed the team to winning the whole shebang against one of the best City teams Pep has ever assembled and he did it 3 times. Life under Tuchel was challenging as feck but Tuchel rode out the storm like a champ, he rallied the club when the whole country nay almost the whole world was against Chelsea FC. He could have let the team whimpered to midtable when it was the easy thing to do but he didn't. Just stop rewriting that part of history.

The club is already fundamentally changed and run. If this season is a write-off, why make weird decisions like leaving out our only striker from the CL lineup to accomodate an unfit Wesley Fofana? I want to see this amazing Potter style of play that everyone of his backers keeps expecting.

I don't want Potter to be sacked immediately but he is not free of criticism. 

Edited February 17, 20233 yr by Deino

17 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Next three matches in the league are winnable. Saints, Spurs away, and Leeds. 

Performances have been improving, so 9/9 points should be a goal. 

It looks doable if we don't have to score at least 1 goal in every game.

2 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

 

If we look at his entire coaching career stats, only 2 managers currently active in PL have a worse points per game ratio than Potter: Sean Dyche and Steve Cooper.

I really hope that at the time when the club realise they need to sack Potter - when that is - that they have the courage to do it. At the minute, they are talking years with potter and it worries me that they will dig their heels in and persist with him. 

17 minutes ago, Deino said:

We won the Club World Cup and the Uefa Supercup just last season. You can dress it how you want but fact is we are in a run of 2 wins in 14 games. We are not hard to beat at all. 

I judged Tuchel way way way too harshly compared to when Potter came in. My expectation with Tuchel was winning against Atleti and he pushed the team to winning the whole shebang against one of the best City teams Pep has ever assembled and he did it 3 times. Life under Tuchel was challenging as feck but Tuchel rode out the storm like a champ, he rallied the club when the whole country nay almost the whole world was against Chelsea FC. He could have let the team whimpered to midtable when it was the easy thing to do but he didn't. Just stop rewriting that part of history.

The club is already fundamentally changed and run. If this season is a write-off, why make weird decisions like leaving out our only striker from the CL lineup to accomodate an unfit Wesley Fofana? I want to see this amazing Potter style of play that everyone of his backers keeps expecting.

I don't want Potter to be sacked immediately but he is not free of criticism. 

Im not saying he is free from criticism at all. 

But if you say Tuchel Tuchel tuchel three times.... I reckon he may just magically reappear in the dugout... 

Lets try it... Tuchel Tuchel Tuchel.... is he back in the dug out yet? Nope... 

Life moves on and I'm hoping you Tuchel lovers out there go support him at his next club. 

 

 

Just now, olderschoolcfc said:

Im not saying he is free from criticism at all. 

But if you say Tuchel Tuchel tuchel three times.... I reckon he may just magically reappear in the dugout... 

Lets try it... Tuchel Tuchel Tuchel.... is he back in the dug out yet? Nope... 

Life moves on and I'm hoping you Tuchel lovers out there go support him at his next club. 

 

 

The only reason I brought up Tuchel was because you tried to rewrote history. 

Judge Potter on his own merit instead of using Tuchel to downplay Potter's obvious deficiencies

8 minutes ago, Deino said:

The only reason I brought up Tuchel was because you tried to rewrote history. 

Judge Potter on his own merit instead of using Tuchel to downplay Potter's obvious deficiencies

Ive not payed anything down, I've said were still struggling to score goals, the football isn't great either... but im certainly not jumping on his back as we are in a massive transition as a club. I just can't fathom why the club being in transition isn't actually a massive mitigating factor in what's taking place on the field. 

This time last year we had an owner who couldn't attend games at home, was forced to sell up. We were once again looking down the barrels of auditors and financial oblivion or being run by a bureaucrat in Whitehall. I'll take this season as a write off, if we start to see progress on the pitch ill take that - Under Frank we couldn't defend, under Tuchel we couldn't score, under Potter... to be decided... fingers crossed for more goals over the rest of the season because we'll win games. 

3 minutes ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Ive not payed anything down, I've said were still struggling to score goals, the football isn't great either... but im certainly not jumping on his back as we are in a massive transition as a club. I just can't fathom why the club being in transition isn't actually a massive mitigating factor in what's taking place on the field. 

This time last year we had an owner who couldn't attend games at home, was forced to sell up. We were once again looking down the barrels of auditors and financial oblivion or being run by a bureaucrat in Whitehall. I'll take this season as a write off, if we start to see progress on the pitch ill take that - Under Frank we couldn't defend, under Tuchel we couldn't score, under Potter... to be decided... fingers crossed for more goals over the rest of the season because we'll win games. 

???

We scored 76 goals in 38 league games last season - how on earth is averaging 2 goals per game "not being able to score" ?

 

Not being able to score is what is happening THIS season ... Potter literally right now has the least goals per game of any manager in Chelsea's entire history since 1905 !!!! 25 in the 24 games to date ... following on from a similar record over 3 and a bit seasons at Brighton.

 

14 minutes ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Ive not payed anything down, I've said were still struggling to score goals, the football isn't great either... but im certainly not jumping on his back as we are in a massive transition as a club. I just can't fathom why the club being in transition isn't actually a massive mitigating factor in what's taking place on the field. 

This time last year we had an owner who couldn't attend games at home, was forced to sell up. We were once again looking down the barrels of auditors and financial oblivion or being run by a bureaucrat in Whitehall. I'll take this season as a write off, if we start to see progress on the pitch ill take that - Under Frank we couldn't defend, under Tuchel we couldn't score, under Potter... to be decided... fingers crossed for more goals over the rest of the season because we'll win games. 

Ridiculous comment.

We scored 76 goals in 38 league games under Tuchel last season.   8 in 6 this season.

We've scored 12 in Potters last 19 games including failing to score in both domestic cups and the CL

It we couldn't score under Tuchel I'd love to know how Potters lack of ability to coach his teams to score over the last decade can still be undecided.

I don't agree we're in a transition either, transition periods are for good managers that need time to get their ideas across but there's a precedent given enough time they can build a winning side

Potters dismal record over the last 6 years and the lack of actual innovation or anything of substance we're seeing on the pitch suggests a decline under a very poor manager rather than a transition

Edited February 17, 20233 yr by TimesUpPotter

4 minutes ago, TimesUpPotter said:

Ridiculous comment.

We scored 76 goals in 38 league games under Tuchel last season.   8 in 6 this season.

We've scored 12 in Potters last 19 games including failing to score in both domestic cups and the CL

It we couldn't score under Tuchel I'd love to know how Potters lack of ability to coach his teams to score over the last decade can still be undecided.

I don't agree we're in a transition either, transition periods are for good managers that need time to get their ideas across but there's a precedent given enough time they can build a winning side

Potters dismal record over the last 6 years and the lack of actual innovation or anything of substance we're seeing on the pitch suggests a decline under a very poor manager rather than a transition

Regardless of what you think of Potter we are most definitely in a transition period. We've got new owners for the first time in 2 decades, we've brought in a ton of new players, and will likely be selling a fair few in the next year. Not to mention we have replaced most of the staff responsible for football decisions (Vivell etc.). On top of that we have appointed a new manager this season in Potter. So pretty well everything about the club at the moment falls under the category "Transition"

46 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Regardless of what you think of Potter we are most definitely in a transition period. We've got new owners for the first time in 2 decades, we've brought in a ton of new players, and will likely be selling a fair few in the next year. Not to mention we have replaced most of the staff responsible for football decisions (Vivell etc.). On top of that we have appointed a new manager this season in Potter. So pretty well everything about the club at the moment falls under the category "Transition"

Most of it from the owner to the manager to the squad compared to how it was a few years ago  also falls under the category of Decline.

The word transition is a horrible buzzword that crept into football a decade or so ago, it's one of those throwaway words like project or process that always gets thrown around when a club is doing badly without having any actual meaning.

Almost every club on the planet is essentially in transition every season because transition means change and no club remains completely static howeever the word only comes about when teams are struggling like every struggling team will improve if given enough time with a new change that clearly isn't working.

Manchester United supporters have used the word transition for a decade now during multiple "projects" when does the word transition stop being used and people just accept the club has declined?

On the flip side Conte got us playing a back 3 for the first time mid season but because he was winning games there was no talk of transitions or projects just simply a manager getting the most out of the talent at his disposal.

It's very easy to talk about "Transitions" but where are the signs we're actually transitioning to something positive?

Edited February 17, 20233 yr by TimesUpPotter

1 hour ago, Dragos said:

If we look at his entire coaching career stats, only 2 managers currently active in PL have a worse points per game ratio than Potter: Sean Dyche and Steve Cooper.

That's insane...

If we played like we did against Dortmund every week I wouldn't complain, we played that way almost every game under Lampard in his first season and lost a lot of games but you could see a form of solid process in our attack, it was just our defensive organisation that was horrendous and we would never have won anything with that defensive setup and discipline. 

Dortmund game was the best I've seen this team play in a long time, more of that and we're on the right track. Unfortunately, I can't see us doing that. 

4 hours ago, JM7 said:

Jose Mourinho: “When you start accepting defeats just because your team played well and just because your players gave their best, A performance to be proud of…I think when you get used to it, that’s when the big clubs stop being big clubs.” 
 

This is my worry with Potter. Our standards have dropped and we’ll accept mediocrity. Potter has to be more demanding. 

This is my real fear. 

We have bought potential future stars. If they exist under that environment it will do nothing for their development. They will stall and possibly get worse. 

Mentality drop, value drop, then we will start criticising the players and saying we need new ones. 

2 hours ago, Deino said:

We won the Club World Cup and the Uefa Supercup just last season. You can dress it how you want but fact is we are in a run of 2 wins in 14 games. We are not hard to beat at all. 

I judged Tuchel way way way too harshly compared to when Potter came in. My expectation with Tuchel was winning against Atleti and he pushed the team to winning the whole shebang against one of the best City teams Pep has ever assembled and he did it 3 times. Life under Tuchel was challenging as feck but Tuchel rode out the storm like a champ, he rallied the club when the whole country nay almost the whole world was against Chelsea FC. He could have let the team whimpered to midtable when it was the easy thing to do but he didn't. Just stop rewriting that part of history.

The club is already fundamentally changed and run. If this season is a write-off, why make weird decisions like leaving out our only striker from the CL lineup to accomodate an unfit Wesley Fofana? I want to see this amazing Potter style of play that everyone of his backers keeps expecting.

I don't want Potter to be sacked immediately but he is not free of criticism. 

Wonder what would have happened if we had won the 2 penalty shootouts against Liverpool....We'd have won everything bar the PL last season...I wonder if Todd might have given it a 2nd thought about sacking Tommy T.

29 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

If we played like we did against Dortmund every week I wouldn't complain, we played that way almost every game under Lampard in his first season and lost a lot of games but you could see a form of solid process in our attack, it was just our defensive organisation that was horrendous and we would never have won anything with that defensive setup and discipline. 

Dortmund game was the best I've seen this team play in a long time, more of that and we're on the right track. Unfortunately, I can't see us doing that. 

We each are entitled to our opinions - I don't think we were that great organizational wise TBH. Yes we created and missed a few decent chances, but so did Dortmund. They were cutting through our midfield like a hot knife through butter and if it wasn't for the heroics once again of Tiago, this game could well have been done and dusted by half time.   When I watched WH defensively against us they were disciplined, solid and in straight lines, especially the back 4/ 5, their midfield was compact. Our lot on Wed were all over the place with gaps easy to walk through.  Yes I understand it's early days (if 6 months is early) but even the basics seem to be missing.  Even with the few players still out injured, GP has enough world class players to produce better results than what we've witnessed.   It appears he's staying, but IMO taking a massive leap from mid-table Brighton to World Club Champions Chelsea where the expectations of the club and fans is greater than Brighton is too much.  Perhaps these owners see more of a long term commercial success than a football one, but I don't think CFC fans of the last 20+ years will stand for that in the long term. 

3 hours ago, Argo said:

To further expand on what I've said these were Tuchel's words when we drew at home to eventually relegated Burnley last season.

"We played a fantastic match. Of course I'm disappointed.

If we played this game 100 times, we'd win 99 times. Today we didn't win it. The second goal would have decided it. It's always possible you miss one ball, one cross, and this can happen".

The idea that a) playing well but not winning is exclusive to "loser" managers and b) elite managers don't praise performances when it happens to them is up there with the biggest load of nonsense I've ever heard.

But improvement doesn't necessarily mean much when you've set the bar at 5 cm to begin with. Its like patting yourself on the back because you raise it by 5 inches each time and go over it for a while. We don't need improvement right now, we need a complete revolution in both results and the way we play over time.

I admit we looked better against Dortmund than we have a lot of times recently. But it was still a pretty even game, at least until Dortmund scored and they decided to sit back and soak up pressure in the hope of preserving their lead. So yes, it was improvement relative to the extremely low bar that's been set.

But was it improvement compared to our last high-stakes CL knockout tie? Against a much, much better side that eventually became European Champions again. And with Alonso and RLC at wingback and the likes of Havertz, Werner and Mount up front?

I know what I think.