41 minutes ago, Argo said:

If it's got to the point it's down to two games then may aswell just sack him now (I'd say that regardless of my personal opinion towards a manager).

Yeah it really is nonsensical. If we win one of the 2, does that mean he gets another 3 make it break games? 

I wanted Potter to succeed here but always maintained he needed to show us something in the short term to make us think he was worth buying into long term. There was that initial 10 or so games where we went unbeaten and for the most part things were pretty encouraging. Then we lost at Brighton and everything has just kinda nosedived since then. I was willing to give him time based on a number of factors, mainly the injuries and not having "his" own players. The injured players are all back now, barring Kante, and he has been backed transfer wise like no other manager has ever been, yet we still continue to underperform and lose games.

If we were in and around the top 4 this season, which I think now should be the bare minimum based on the players we have, then I would be willing to give him the time and would be able to see that we are heading in the right direction. If we were for example 8 wins out of 16 rather than the 2 in 16 that we actually are, then you could say there is something we are working towards. The fact of the matter though is we should be doing a lot better with the players we have and with the investment that was made in January (and the summer to an extent). There is no way that us being 2 wins in 16 is acceptable, regardless of what stage of the project we are at.

When you look at our run of fixtures in the league since the window shut we have had: Fulham (H), West Ham (A), Southampton (H) and Spurs (A), and we have taken 2 points from a possible 12 and scored just once in those games. Even if we had won 3 of those games and lost to Spurs, I think that would have won him a bit more time. This was meant to be the run of fixtures on paper where we should've picked up points and started to climb the table. If we had won 3 out of 4 of those games we would be on 38 points now and 3 points outside the top 4, with Newcastle to play at home. 

I've been one to make comparisons to Arsenal/ Arteta over the last few months but I don't think those comparisons are worth anything now. Arteta was never backed as handsomely as Potter was in the window. Potter also inherited a squad that contains world cup winners, premier league winners, champions league winners, and players with consistent experience of finishing in the top 4. 

I am all for giving the right manager time, but we (fans, players, and the board) need to see something in the short term which gives us an identity and the belief that we are working towards something positive. Regardless of how good we may or may not be in a year, given the investment and existing players in this squad - we should be doing a lot better than we are now. The players of course have to take some of the blame but ultimately it is a results business and at some point soon, the board will have to judge this manager on results, rather than sticking to this project line. I think @WhiteWall said it a few weeks ago and I think it sums up the situation pretty well "right course, wrong horse". As time goes on I don't think Potter is the man to deliver this long term project. I said in another thread yesterday that I think Boehly is digging his heels in because he is reluctant to admit publicly he got this wrong. I think if Vivell etc were in place in September, we might still have gone for Potter but I don't think there's any chance he would've been given a 5 year deal. Hopefully lessons have been learnt there.

Personally I would now make the change before Dortmund. I've said it a few times, and seen one or two others say similar but I think the best course of action now would be get an interim between now and the end of the season, and spend from now until May/ June taking time to find the right candidate for next season. If we sack him after Dortmund and then go down the interim route then JT wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, as long as we don't fall into the trap of giving him the job full time because he goes unbeaten for 7 games or something like that. 

If he does get sacked I do think it's a shame it hasn't worked out for him here, he seems like a decent bloke and he's obviously a decent coach on some level given his track record everywhere else, and hopefully he can go and rebuild his career somewhere else. But it's obvious that he is out of his depth here at the moment. 

We are the new Banter FC

If he's still here I'm just assumin we can't afford to sack him right now, that's the only logical explanation at this point

1 hour ago, Argo said:

If it's got to the point it's down to two games then may aswell just sack him now (I'd say that regardless of my personal opinion towards a manager).

Agreed Argo, if that is the actual thinking at board level it will find a way to the players a these next two games will be a slow death March. As I have said before Todd and Co need to be front and sent and back their man in person, not through media sources, or just let him go now. What they are doing is hanging him out to dry.

1 hour ago, Munkworth said:

How the hell is he still employed?

He still have those naked pictures of you.

I wonder how this news will affect the next couple of games. Do the players step up their game to save potter’s job or do they down their tools to get him sacked.

3 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

I wonder how this news will affect the next couple of games. Do the players step up their game to save potter’s job or do they down their tools to get him sacked.

I mean Havertz will get his usual 90 and embarrass himself and the club on the pitch. Build for the future yet Ziyech will still be starting even though he maneuvered his own move out in January and Koulibaly will start over Badiashile and Fofana. RLC will likely partner Enzo and be an absolute apparition with Enzo yet again being responsible for both the transition and defensive phase. And then you know when we are in need of a goal Potter will do his usual thing in bringing on more midfielders so Havertz can burn more cardio up top. 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11797467/SAMI-MOKBEL-Chelsea-owners-Graham-Potter-blind-faith.html

3 minutes ago, Ibby_786 said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11797467/SAMI-MOKBEL-Chelsea-owners-Graham-Potter-blind-faith.html

All they are doing is saving face. Boehly knows if he sacks Potter how much of an idiot he is going to look for sacking Tuchel in favor of Potter. 

5 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I mean Havertz will get his usual 90 and embarrass himself and the club on the pitch. Build for the future yet Ziyech will still be starting even though he maneuvered his own move out in January and Koulibaly will start over Badiashile and Fofana. RLC will likely partner Enzo and be an absolute apparition with Enzo yet again being responsible for both the transition and defensive phase. And then you know when we are in need of a goal Potter will do his usual thing in bringing on more midfielders so Havertz can burn more cardio up top. 

 

 

Reading that just reminds me how awful Potter’s team selection is and he really has dug his own grave.

1 minute ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Reading that just reminds me how awful Potter’s team selection is and he really has dug his own grave.

And the whole "woes me" attitude in his pressers just the cherry on top. 

1 minute ago, Sconnie Blue said:

All they are doing is saving face. Boehly knows if he sacks Potter how much of an idiot he is going to look for sacking Tuchel in favor of Potter. 

At this stage Boehly is not going to save any face whether he decides to cut his losses now or in the summer. Maybe he saves some money depending on the contract terms, but little else.

14 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

I wonder how this news will affect the next couple of games. Do the players step up their game to save potter’s job or do they down their tools to get him sacked.

History tells us tools will be downed.

We're not on TV on Saturday and I'm out of the country for the Dortmund game (meaning I probably wont be able to watch it), I think there's a good chance the next time I get to watch Chelsea play Potter won't be in the dugout.

Just now, forbzy said:

At this stage Boehly is not going to save any face whether he decides to cut his losses now or in the summer. Maybe he saves some money depending on the contract terms, but little else.

Oh yeah he's not doing himself any favors. I mentioned a couple days back I'd have enormous respect for Boehly if after he's sacked Potter he publicly states he made a premature mistake and that he should of left these decisions to the people running the football club (Vivell/Sheilds,etc)

4 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

And the whole "woes me" attitude in his pressers just the cherry on top. 

Never seen a manager come up with so many excuses yet he always ensures to throw in taking responsibility somewhere in to deceive those that can be deceived. 

Ah it was the dog, ah no it's the weather, oh Cobham pitches too big, yes we get it Graham. Next you'll be saying Harry took your wand. 

 

Glad at least Vivell sees sense. Amorim is an underrated option to be fair

I was really against going back to a back three yet given our poor record in front of goal, if James and Chilwell are fit lets go 3-5-2  or 3-4-3 just to see if can at least score.

They were both scoring freely for us in an earlier period before injuries hit us.

If James is not fit then forget it yet you need to play your best team to get a result and get confidence back even if that means  at times they need to play three times in days.............

I’m still Potter in, although I can understand some people running out of patience.

Our form is worrying and I hate the feeling that if we fall behind that a draw seems to be the best we can realistically hope for as scoring twice in the same match is mysteriously beyond us at the moment.

I’m also frustrated with seeing Kai upfront as I don’t think he has the drive to even get to 10 goals in a season. A winning goal every few months seems to be his comfort level. He isn’t the kind of player who even follows up shots just in case the keeper spills it.

Having said that, I think we had a decent January transfer window but some players will take time to adjust to a new country, a new life and a new league.

I also do believe the pre-season hasn’t helped matters, other than Spurs home match I’m struggling to think of a match where we played really well for more than 30 minutes.

I also think we need to get past this hire and fire cycle, including players know this and using it as an excuse not to give their all.

We are due a reset in my opinion so maybe the only way is to get in a dedicated holding midfielder and a decent striker and then judge him.

Is it the right man to lead us into this new era?, who knows, we do need to right the wrongs of the past few transfer windows though and give long term thinking a fair crack.

4 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

 

Glad at least Vivell sees sense. Amorim is an underrated option to be fair

Amorim has done ok but for all 3 of those names, this would be quite a step up in size of the job. So there would be some concerns there that we may end up in the same position we are in now. I think the job needs somebody with experience working at one of the bigger European teams.

4 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

Glad at least Vivell sees sense. Amorim is an underrated option to be fair

If Vivell is still only at the "doubts" stage, then he's clearly not got enough sense just yet LOL

Pochettino is the  best available replacement for me.  Track record of getting and maintaining Top 4 with a sh*t team, plus going deep in Europe, as well as developing players.  That ticks a lot of boxes. 

3 hours ago, big blue said:

We've spent £600m and you think survival is enough?

If we bought 28 yr old players then no. We bought mainly young potential players. KK and Fofana are the only players you could make a case they should be in their stride already. Fofana's been injured most of his Chelsea career.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Amorim has done ok but for all 3 of those names, this would be quite a step up in size of the job. So there would be some concerns there that we may end up in the same position we are in now. I think the job needs somebody with experience working at one of the bigger European teams.

Yeah out of those options Poch is the best by far, we really should just give the job back to Tuchel though

4 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

If Vivell is still only at the "doubts" stage, then he's clearly not got enough sense just yet LOL

Pochettino is the  best available replacement for me.  Track record of getting and maintaining Top 4 with a sh*t team, plus going deep in Europe, as well as developing players.  That ticks a lot of boxes. 

He would seem to be most likely if we elect to go with a new full time manager before the end of the season, and not an interim. 

37 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

I wanted Potter to succeed here but always maintained he needed to show us something in the short term to make us think he was worth buying into long term. There was that initial 10 or so games where we went unbeaten and for the most part things were pretty encouraging. Then we lost at Brighton and everything has just kinda nosedived since then. I was willing to give him time based on a number of factors, mainly the injuries and not having "his" own players. The injured players are all back now, barring Kante, and he has been backed transfer wise like no other manager has ever been, yet we still continue to underperform and lose games.

If we were in and around the top 4 this season, which I think now should be the bare minimum based on the players we have, then I would be willing to give him the time and would be able to see that we are heading in the right direction. If we were for example 8 wins out of 16 rather than the 2 in 16 that we actually are, then you could say there is something we are working towards. The fact of the matter though is we should be doing a lot better with the players we have and with the investment that was made in January (and the summer to an extent). There is no way that us being 2 wins in 16 is acceptable, regardless of what stage of the project we are at.

When you look at our run of fixtures in the league since the window shut we have had: Fulham (H), West Ham (A), Southampton (H) and Spurs (A), and we have taken 2 points from a possible 12 and scored just once in those games. Even if we had won 3 of those games and lost to Spurs, I think that would have won him a bit more time. This was meant to be the run of fixtures on paper where we should've picked up points and started to climb the table. If we had won 3 out of 4 of those games we would be on 38 points now and 3 points outside the top 4, with Newcastle to play at home. 

I've been one to make comparisons to Arsenal/ Arteta over the last few months but I don't think those comparisons are worth anything now. Arteta was never backed as handsomely as Potter was in the window. Potter also inherited a squad that contains world cup winners, premier league winners, champions league winners, and players with consistent experience of finishing in the top 4. 

I am all for giving the right manager time, but we (fans, players, and the board) need to see something in the short term which gives us an identity and the belief that we are working towards something positive. Regardless of how good we may or may not be in a year, given the investment and existing players in this squad - we should be doing a lot better than we are now. The players of course have to take some of the blame but ultimately it is a results business and at some point soon, the board will have to judge this manager on results, rather than sticking to this project line. I think @WhiteWall said it a few weeks ago and I think it sums up the situation pretty well "right course, wrong horse". As time goes on I don't think Potter is the man to deliver this long term project. I said in another thread yesterday that I think Boehly is digging his heels in because he is reluctant to admit publicly he got this wrong. I think if Vivell etc were in place in September, we might still have gone for Potter but I don't think there's any chance he would've been given a 5 year deal. Hopefully lessons have been learnt there.

Personally I would now make the change before Dortmund. I've said it a few times, and seen one or two others say similar but I think the best course of action now would be get an interim between now and the end of the season, and spend from now until May/ June taking time to find the right candidate for next season. If we sack him after Dortmund and then go down the interim route then JT wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, as long as we don't fall into the trap of giving him the job full time because he goes unbeaten for 7 games or something like that. 

If he does get sacked I do think it's a shame it hasn't worked out for him here, he seems like a decent bloke and he's obviously a decent coach on some level given his track record everywhere else, and hopefully he can go and rebuild his career somewhere else. But it's obvious that he is out of his depth here at the moment. 

I'm more or less in the same boat as you. I was on the fence regarding Potter, but wanted some more time for him to turn things around and show some progress. While I thought that there were some glimpses of an improvement in the Palace, Liverpool, West Ham and (especially) Dortmund games, I think that the last two matches have shown a deep regress. We should be seeing some improvements with the players available at the moment, but I just don't see anything that makes me think that we are going to win any game. He looks lost and I don't think that he's going to get the team to improve at this point. We've seen it all before with Conte, Mourinho MkII, Lampard and even Tuchel this season. I like him, and wanted him to success, but I don't think he's going to turn it around. And, at this point, it is better to make the change as soon as possible before the Leeds match so that the new/interim coach has that game to asses and grind out a result, and go into the Dortmund match with more knowledge of the players and a worked out plan.

1 hour ago, drjonesy1994 said:

I wanted Potter to succeed here but always maintained he needed to show us something in the short term to make us think he was worth buying into long term. There was that initial 10 or so games where we went unbeaten and for the most part things were pretty encouraging. Then we lost at Brighton and everything has just kinda nosedived since then. I was willing to give him time based on a number of factors, mainly the injuries and not having "his" own players. The injured players are all back now, barring Kante, and he has been backed transfer wise like no other manager has ever been, yet we still continue to underperform and lose games.

If we were in and around the top 4 this season, which I think now should be the bare minimum based on the players we have, then I would be willing to give him the time and would be able to see that we are heading in the right direction. If we were for example 8 wins out of 16 rather than the 2 in 16 that we actually are, then you could say there is something we are working towards. The fact of the matter though is we should be doing a lot better with the players we have and with the investment that was made in January (and the summer to an extent). There is no way that us being 2 wins in 16 is acceptable, regardless of what stage of the project we are at.

When you look at our run of fixtures in the league since the window shut we have had: Fulham (H), West Ham (A), Southampton (H) and Spurs (A), and we have taken 2 points from a possible 12 and scored just once in those games. Even if we had won 3 of those games and lost to Spurs, I think that would have won him a bit more time. This was meant to be the run of fixtures on paper where we should've picked up points and started to climb the table. If we had won 3 out of 4 of those games we would be on 38 points now and 3 points outside the top 4, with Newcastle to play at home. 

I've been one to make comparisons to Arsenal/ Arteta over the last few months but I don't think those comparisons are worth anything now. Arteta was never backed as handsomely as Potter was in the window. Potter also inherited a squad that contains world cup winners, premier league winners, champions league winners, and players with consistent experience of finishing in the top 4. 

I am all for giving the right manager time, but we (fans, players, and the board) need to see something in the short term which gives us an identity and the belief that we are working towards something positive. Regardless of how good we may or may not be in a year, given the investment and existing players in this squad - we should be doing a lot better than we are now. The players of course have to take some of the blame but ultimately it is a results business and at some point soon, the board will have to judge this manager on results, rather than sticking to this project line. I think @WhiteWall said it a few weeks ago and I think it sums up the situation pretty well "right course, wrong horse". As time goes on I don't think Potter is the man to deliver this long term project. I said in another thread yesterday that I think Boehly is digging his heels in because he is reluctant to admit publicly he got this wrong. I think if Vivell etc were in place in September, we might still have gone for Potter but I don't think there's any chance he would've been given a 5 year deal. Hopefully lessons have been learnt there.

Personally I would now make the change before Dortmund. I've said it a few times, and seen one or two others say similar but I think the best course of action now would be get an interim between now and the end of the season, and spend from now until May/ June taking time to find the right candidate for next season. If we sack him after Dortmund and then go down the interim route then JT wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, as long as we don't fall into the trap of giving him the job full time because he goes unbeaten for 7 games or something like that. 

If he does get sacked I do think it's a shame it hasn't worked out for him here, he seems like a decent bloke and he's obviously a decent coach on some level given his track record everywhere else, and hopefully he can go and rebuild his career somewhere else. But it's obvious that he is out of his depth here at the moment. 

Outstanding post - so well summarized.

It is repeating at this point from other threads, but regarding being out of his depth, there are so many examples.  A week to prepare post losing to managerless Saints, and that is what we see.  Dropping players that had played well to restore underperformers - looks like he went for experience which shows how much their backs are against the wall.  

Add to that his poor substitutes (both timing and personnel choices), lack of player development, erosion of confidence, and the overall manner of the performances yet alone the results.  

His contract his too large and being a realist this would never happen, but part of me wishes he'd just resign.  In the absence of that, it is time we part ways - the cost is high but the damage he is doing to the squad and results is exceeding this.  If JT is up for it, let him run as interim with a team to galvanize the club and get a long term successor ready late spring/early summer. 

Edited February 27, 20233 yr by PhilH930