Chelsea looking to Brighton's  Caicedo as Enzo replacement Brighton looking for 70m 80m. This joke is not funny anymore

31 minutes ago, Blue72 said:

Chelsea looking to Brighton's  Caicedo as Enzo replacement Brighton looking for 70m 80m. This joke is not funny anymore

Really nothing remotely similar about these players. If we pay £80 for Caicedo, I would be really disappointed. He is a good player, but I feel that profile of player we can surely get for cheaper. I'd actually prefer MacAllister, at least he offers something a little different, also could help up get Enzo back onside in the summer.

3 hours ago, Blue72 said:

Chelsea looking to Brighton's  Caicedo as Enzo replacement Brighton looking for 70m 80m. This joke is not funny anymore

Two completely different players profile wise but the clown show upstairs can continue destroying the club. 

Not another expensive Brighton player, at least not this season. I need time to get over that Cucurella guy

I don't see another expensive signing will help Potter this season, he actually needs to work on the players he got, either make or break them.

If we really want Enzo we should just pay the money and get him, it’s settling for cheaper alternatives that has got us in this mess in the first place. We would of learnt nothing from previous mistakes.

On 06/01/2023 at 02:34, Deino said:

That's the thing though, we blew a ton of money on Casadei and Chukwumeka saying "this is one for the future" when an actual good player that can improve us now and "one for the future" was available, we didn't go for him. 

What was so good about Casadei and Chukwumeka that we overlooked Enzo Fernandez? 

Wasn't FdJ approached quite heavily? Not saying he was a good target (god knows if was actually available) but he was an elite midfield target. 

1 hour ago, 2211 said:

If we really want Enzo we should just pay the money and get him, it’s settling for cheaper alternatives that has got us in this mess in the first place. We would of learnt nothing from previous mistakes.

That's not how it works. Just blow 120m on a player who may or may not improve us. We'll still be dealing with injury issues and the pressure falls on him. People keep saying this or that player will improve us, but for that money he'd need to make a HUGE difference. I can't see how he does. 

 

 

Edited January 13, 20233 yr by enigma

2 minutes ago, enigma said:

That's not how it works. Just blow 120m on a player who may or may not improve us. We'll still be dealing with injury issues and the pressure falls on him. People keep saying this or that player will improve us, but for that money he'd need to make a HUGE difference. I can't see how he does. 

 

 

£106m, but I get your point. My point is if they truly have done their due diligence and believe he is the right person then I think we should do it. From what I’ve seen he’s way better than the Brighton guy. Spending around £70-£80 on a watered down version seems excessive to me. Problem is we don’t know how anyone will perform until they get here so we should always buy with conviction rather than 2nd or 3rd choice cheaper options imo. 

36 minutes ago, weetee said:

Wasn't FdJ approached quite heavily? Not saying he was a good target (god knows if was actually available) but he was an elite midfield target. 

He was but he's not a future prospect is he? Enzo was both someone who could improve us in the present and was also a future prospect priced at 20m. 

The fact that our scouts missed him or failed to recommend him to Boehly is a negative for us. Hindsight is 20/20 I know but I had Argentinians labeling Enzo and Alvarez as the next best duo. City got Alvarez for cheap and Benfica got Enzo. I thought it was a bit overblown at the time but boy was I wrong. 

We spent about 30~40m for Casadei and Chukwumeka when half of that could bring in Enzo for similar reasons. I doubt Tuchel would turn a blind eye once he sees Enzo plays

9 minutes ago, Deino said:

He was but he's not a future prospect is he? Enzo was both someone who could improve us in the present and was also a future prospect priced at 20m. 

The fact that our scouts missed him or failed to recommend him to Boehly is a negative for us. Hindsight is 20/20 I know but I had Argentinians labeling Enzo and Alvarez as the next best duo. City got Alvarez for cheap and Benfica got Enzo. I thought it was a bit overblown at the time but boy was I wrong. 

We spent about 30~40m for Casadei and Chukwumeka when half of that could bring in Enzo for similar reasons. I doubt Tuchel would turn a blind eye once he sees Enzo plays

Of course but I think it's quite simplistic and a lot of hindsight 20/20 accusing scouts for not bringing in Enzo before his move to Benfica. Casadei and Chukwumeka both look great talents, Chukwu could actually play as a starter soon as well so I wouldn't really complain about those two. Nobody could predict Enzo skyrocketing as he did (and let's not forget that there is still a risk he wouldn't immediately dictate play in the EPL although he'd be a great addition nonetheless). Also the 100+ pounds that are in talks for him are over the top anyway. 

I think Chelsea is stacked with very promising young talents, it's the middle block (regarding age) of players that are supposed to give structure is crumbling and not as reliable as they should be. Be it due injuries or lack of form. 

Edited January 13, 20233 yr by weetee

36 minutes ago, weetee said:

Of course but I think it's quite simplistic and a lot of hindsight 20/20 accusing scouts for not bringing in Enzo before his move to Benfica. Casadei and Chukwumeka both look great talents, Chukwu could actually play as a starter soon as well so I wouldn't really complain about those two. Nobody could predict Enzo skyrocketing as he did (and let's not forget that there is still a risk he wouldn't immediately dictate play in the EPL although he'd be a great addition nonetheless). Also the 100+ pounds that are in talks for him are over the top anyway. 

I think Chelsea is stacked with very promising young talents, it's the middle block (regarding age) of players that are supposed to give structure is crumbling and not as reliable as they should be. Be it due injuries or lack of form. 

Yes nobody could predict him skyrocketing but to not even be in for him is my point when we were signing those two this summer. Enzo would highly likely dictate play in England, he did it in Europe with relative ease. 

Us being stacked with talent should be a given considering we're one of the top footballing academy in the world. 

1 minute ago, Deino said:

Yes nobody could predict him skyrocketing but to not even be in for him is my point when we were signing those two this summer. Enzo would highly likely dictate play in England, he did it in Europe with relative ease. 

Us being stacked with talent should be a given considering we're one of the top footballing academy in the world. 

Would he even be interested moving to a Chelsea side that would be risky to get minutes at when he can easily develop at Benfica as a starter, have the CL as a showcase and a WC coming up where he wouldn't feature if he's sitting on the bench at Chelsea waiting to get subbed in for Kanté or Kova? All I'm saying is it's all very theoretical. There will always be that talent that went under the radar and exploded at some club where it could rather freely develop without the limelight and pressure and competition within the squad. 

Don't know about your academy players atm but it seems also there is a lack in midfielders with the potential to be top class - otherwise I wouldn't criticise the missed opportunity to sign Enzo but rather why those aren't intergrated into the squad.

Haven't seen Benfica in the CL - all I'm saying there is no guarantee. CL football with Benfica is likely quite different to EPL football with Chelsea I'd assume. Not saying he's not a player who can transform the midfield don't get me wrong, but Chelsea's a mess atm so that's also different to coming into a well organised Benfica team or well drilled Argentina NT side. Just saying though. Would be great to see what he could do at Chelsea.

 

 

I'm so depressed over how we've messed this one up. He would be such a perfect signing.

1 hour ago, 2211 said:

£106m, but I get your point. My point is if they truly have done their due diligence and believe he is the right person then I think we should do it. From what I’ve seen he’s way better than the Brighton guy. Spending around £70-£80 on a watered down version seems excessive to me. Problem is we don’t know how anyone will perform until they get here so we should always buy with conviction rather than 2nd or 3rd choice cheaper options imo. 

The problem we have here is that all of these players, regardless of the fees, are just individual components of the overall structure. If that structure is undermined by catastrophic injuries or is just sh*t these players won't work either. It is impossible for a single player to carry a team in this league. Even when we say it, its not real. When Ronaldo was Man Utd only goalscoring player last season, they were still reliant on other players. Somebody had to give him the ball.

The issue we seem to have at the moment is that we are in a tail spin of bad form and injured players. Rather than halting this tail spin Potter may be making it worse by throwing random amounts of players at it and changing formation and tactics during matches.

 

13 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

The problem we have here is that all of these players, regardless of the fees, are just individual components of the overall structure. If that structure is undermined by catastrophic injuries or is just sh*t these players won't work either. It is impossible for a single player to carry a team in this league. Even when we say it, its not real. When Ronaldo was Man Utd only goalscoring player last season, they were still reliant on other players. Somebody had to give him the ball.

The issue we seem to have at the moment is that we are in a tail spin of bad form and injured players. Rather than halting this tail spin Potter may be making it worse by throwing random amounts of players at it and changing formation and tactics during matches.

 

I hear you but the issue in midfield is that we don’t have anyone the slightest bit creative in there. At least Enzo has a good range of passing on him, Caicedo isn’t creative imo, and is similar to Zakaria in profile - more a defensive midfielder.

Not addressing the creative midfield problem this window would be poor and then we will still suffer between now and the end of the season.

And when Felix stops making runs because he’s worked out there isn’t anyone with the ability to pass more than 5 yards then he will be less effective.

I’d even be up for a cheeky bid for Maddison at this point.

Watching Kovacic overhit passes by 30 metres isn’t funny anymore.

3 minutes ago, 2211 said:

I hear you but the issue in midfield is that we don’t have anyone the slightest bit creative in there. At least Enzo has a good range of passing on him, Caicedo isn’t creative imo, and is similar to Zakaria in profile - more a defensive midfielder.

Not addressing the creative midfield problem this window would be poor and then we will still suffer between now and the end of the season.

And when Felix stops making runs because he’s worked out there isn’t anyone with the ability to pass more than 5 yards then he will be less effective.

I’d even be up for a cheeky bid for Maddison at this point.

Watching Kovacic overhit passes by 30 metres isn’t funny anymore.

Good points...apart form the Maddison one. Too far up his own ar$e for my liking, but i get the point

2 hours ago, weetee said:

Would he even be interested moving to a Chelsea side that would be risky to get minutes at when he can easily develop at Benfica as a starter, have the CL as a showcase and a WC coming up where he wouldn't feature if he's sitting on the bench at Chelsea waiting to get subbed in for Kanté or Kova? All I'm saying is it's all very theoretical. There will always be that talent that went under the radar and exploded at some club where it could rather freely develop without the limelight and pressure and competition within the squad. 

Don't know about your academy players atm but it seems also there is a lack in midfielders with the potential to be top class - otherwise I wouldn't criticise the missed opportunity to sign Enzo but rather why those aren't intergrated into the squad.

Haven't seen Benfica in the CL - all I'm saying there is no guarantee. CL football with Benfica is likely quite different to EPL football with Chelsea I'd assume. Not saying he's not a player who can transform the midfield don't get me wrong, but Chelsea's a mess atm so that's also different to coming into a well organised Benfica team or well drilled Argentina NT side. Just saying though. Would be great to see what he could do at Chelsea.

 

 

Not true. Gallagher is around the same age and he plays quite a number of games already for us. 

Chukwumeka and Casadei has the potential to be top class but they're not ready, Enzo is ready. 

Perhaps the Epl may be tougher but Alvarez did just fine so no reason why Enzo would flop. 

If we refuse to pay £100m for Enzo but end up playing £80 for Caicedo I'm going to lose it.  And we wonder why we are in our current predicament?  Instead of over paying for a unique talent lets over pay for a good player of which there are likely many alternatives of a similar quality for much less.  I thought we completely rejigged the whole recruitment staff, but I see no difference.

Caicedo is an excellent player don’t get me wrong, but his profile is something we should obtain only after a player like Enzo. 

4 hours ago, Luca Vialli said:

I'm so depressed over how we've messed this one up. He would be such a perfect signing.

He's by far the perfect signing. I can't stand the prospect of seeing him being the Gundogan replacement in the summer, it's just so freaking easy for Pep.

Edited January 13, 20233 yr by Gol15

5 hours ago, 2211 said:

I hear you but the issue in midfield is that we don’t have anyone the slightest bit creative in there. At least Enzo has a good range of passing on him, Caicedo isn’t creative imo, and is similar to Zakaria in profile - more a defensive midfielder.

Not addressing the creative midfield problem this window would be poor and then we will still suffer between now and the end of the season.

And when Felix stops making runs because he’s worked out there isn’t anyone with the ability to pass more than 5 yards then he will be less effective.

I’d even be up for a cheeky bid for Maddison at this point.

Watching Kovacic overhit passes by 30 metres isn’t funny anymore.

Absolutely spot on... We have no one in our midfield that can play a 10 yard pass or a through ball accurately. Kovacic for all his dribbling ability is a liability because of the rate of his turnovers and bad passes. jorginho is the master of the 5 yards pass. Little wonder attackers after attackers flop in Chelsea. We never can get the ball to them quick enough behind the opposition nor can our fullbacks cross the ball competently

4 hours ago, Deino said:

Not true. Gallagher is around the same age and he plays quite a number of games already for us. 

Chukwumeka and Casadei has the potential to be top class but they're not ready, Enzo is ready. 

Perhaps the Epl may be tougher but Alvarez did just fine so no reason why Enzo would flop. 

 

Gallagher played more than 5.000min in the EPL before he came back to the club he started as a kiddo to then get featured also quite a lot because of injuries. Not sure it's agreat example compared to a 20yo who is just about to move across the pond with a WC coming up as well. Portugal and its league is always a great station for a south american talent to get a grip here.

Alvarez joined City not Chelsea. One is the best oiled machine in the football universe while the other....is not. 

Not sure there is much of a debate here actually though. I'm not saying he would have never joined Chelsea, that be an idiotic statement but all I'm saying is that even if you wanted him there were (and always are) good arguments against a move to a club of such magnitude for a talent.

 

48 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

 

Yeah probably £80 million and a penny.

1 hour ago, dansubrosa said:

 

Lol don't bid and pi$$ them off more. Either pay the clause or don't.