16 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Spot on. Rather than paying well over the odds for a player who has played under 20 games in Europe, why not actually get our scouts to earn their salary, and buy the players direct from source.

If they cant find them, then how about hire the Benfica and Porto scouts? They never seem to do badly and recruiting cracking players.

Do you really think he would've been given a chance here without first being sent on a gazzillion loans for 5 years ?

We're too eager to classify players as "not good enough" and "not ready to compete for a top club".

9 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Mate their coach literally came out and said they're not happy with us for the reason we're discussing. It's literally being reported from reputable sources how we agreed verbally and then went back and low ball. I appreciate you're willingness to try and take a step back and be 'impartial' or maybe you just support the board blindly idk but this is on them they've made a mistake whether you agree or not

Oh well, if their coach said that then we just have to believe him 100%, unlike our lot who must disbelieve all the time...for some reason.

19 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Spot on. Rather than paying well over the odds for a player who has played under 20 games in Europe, why not actually get our scouts to earn their salary, and buy the players direct from source.

If they cant find them, then how about hire the Benfica and Porto scouts? They never seem to do badly and recruiting cracking players.

To be fair Boehly is overhauling our scouting team for this very reason. 

4 hours ago, Nick05 said:

Do you really think he would've been given a chance here without first being sent on a gazzillion loans for 5 years ?

We're too eager to classify players as "not good enough" and "not ready to compete for a top club".

No. There seems to be this myth we could have had Mbappe and he'd have ended up at Charlton, it's just simply not true.

4 hours ago, Nick05 said:

Do you really think he would've been given a chance here without first being sent on a gazzillion loans for 5 years ?

We're too eager to classify players as "not good enough" and "not ready to compete for a top club".

No he won't. That was under Roman. Boehly seems to have different plans

16 minutes ago, Argo said:

No. There seems to be this myth we could have had Mbappe and he'd have ended up at Charlton, it's just simply not true.

We had Musiala in our youth team & he somehow starts for Bayern in 6mths.

 

4 minutes ago, Deino said:

No he won't. That was under Roman. Boehly seems to have different plans

What is this plan? He spoke about a multi club approach which is questionable if that actually works (see Man City), he hasn’t yet bought any other club but has kept on buying players to stick in the Development squad. Seems to have put the cart before the horse, and if rumours are to be believed counting on other teams like Benfica to develop these players for him. There are 18 & 19yr olds starting regularly for top clubs in Europe, not sure the loan route works anymore.

8 minutes ago, ducavis said:

We had Musiala in our youth team & he somehow starts for Bayern in 6mths.

 

What is this plan? He spoke about a multi club approach which is questionable if that actually works (see Man City), he hasn’t yet bought any other club but has kept on buying players to stick in the Development squad. Seems to have put the cart before the horse, and if rumours are to be believed counting on other teams like Benfica to develop these players for him. There are 18 & 19yr olds starting regularly for top clubs in Europe, not sure the loan route works anymore.

Wasn't Boehly's entire plan and with bringing Potter on board because he wanted Potter to bring on our youth product/signings into the first team to develop them? The entire reason he brought Potter on was because Potter had experience developing youths at Ostersunds and Brighton. 

The multi-club approach is another part of the plan where he uses the loanee at multiple clubs to get them up to speed. 

Edited January 6, 20233 yr by Deino

2 hours ago, dkw said:

Oh well, if their coach said that then we just have to believe him 100%, unlike our lot who must disbelieve all the time...for some reason.

Some on here are just too eager to pour crap on our Club based on rumours from click-bait journalists, and earlier believe other teams’ narratives than trust our own. I just don’t get it.

Saw some tweets that talks have resumed again today. See what happens. 

Club X is offering 90 MIL, paid in 2 parts plus 1 player in the middle. Deal might happen, but person who is nagionating now is not the same as before.

 

2 hours ago, RMH said:

Some on here are just too eager to pour crap on our Club based on rumours from click-bait journalists, and earlier believe other teams’ narratives than trust our own. I just don’t get it.

Theres a very odd section of fans who seem desperate to prove how big a fan they are by having the most hatred of the club, manager, owner, players, English fans, basically anything English. Its so f**king weird.

2 hours ago, ducavis said:

We had Musiala in our youth team & he somehow starts for Bayern in 6mths.

Nothing different to Fabregas leaving Barca or Hutchinson slipping though Arsenal fingers, just sometimes happens. 

There's also examples like Solanke who left for "more chances" and shown exactly why he wasn't getting any, and even he ended up at a higher level than what Mbappe would have supposedly ended up at if we had him.

4 hours ago, Argo said:

No. There seems to be this myth we could have had Mbappe and he'd have ended up at Charlton, it's just simply not true.

Do players in our youth system need to show talent like Mbappe for them to be given a chance in our first team ?

If any top club in the PL had a talent like Colwill would they send him out on loan again and then spend a combined 180 million on Fofana, Cucurella and Badiashile ?

Was Lukaku so much better than Tammy that we spent 100+ mill while we didn't believe that we could develop Tammy into a capable striker ?

 

Edited January 6, 20233 yr by Nick05

4 hours ago, JM7 said:

Saw some tweets that talks have resumed again today. See what happens. 

If the option to pay less whilst he stays at Benfica and comes in the summer is still on the table, snatch it. 

29 minutes ago, Nick05 said:

Do players in our youth system need to show talent like Mbappe for them to be given a chance in our first team ?

If any top club in the PL had a talent like Colwill would they send him out on loan again and then spend a combined 180 million on Fofana, Cucurella and Badiashile ?

Was Lukaku so much better than Tammy that we spent 100+ mill while we didn't believe that we could develop Tammy into a capable striker ?

 

Given you were referring to Enzo (who in my opinion is one step below that level of talent) that is why I brought it up.

The supposed Kings of youth development Man.United spent big money on Anthony despite having Garnacho (two years after signing Sancho when they had Greenwood), Arsenal who are getting raved over for their current youth policy are potentially smashing their transfer record in a position both Martinelli and Smith Rowe play, City buying millions of midfielders hasn't exactly hampered Foden. Signings and youth development can co exist it's not one or the other.

As for Tammy he wasn't good enough, Lukaku wasn't either (and ironically I kept getting hit with the "he's young" line when I pointed it out during his first spell here) but two wrongs don't make a right.

Edited January 6, 20233 yr by Argo

Talking about scouting, the difference here is the context. 

We're about to bring a 18 years old kid from Denish league, Schjelderup, he's pure talent, and I have no doubt that Benfica have no problems in make him a key player straight away. 

The reason why many of these kids prefer a step like Benfica, Porto, Ajax, etc is exactly that...because they know they will have much bigger chances of playing at a much higher level and more consistently than moving to a team like yours and ending up being loaned because the competition for a position is huge. 

But things seems to be changing now. The Di Marias, Oblaks we used to get with 16, 17, 18 years old are moving more and more regularly to the bigger ones from source.

 

2 minutes ago, Aguia_SLB said:

Talking about scouting, the difference here is the context. 

We're about to bring a 18 years old kid from Denish league, Schjelderup, he's pure talent, and I have no doubt that Benfica have no problems in make him a key player straight away. 

The reason why many of these kids prefer a step like Benfica, Porto, Ajax, etc is exactly that...because they know they will have much bigger chances of playing at a much higher level and more consistently than moving to a team like yours and ending up being loaned because the competition for a position is huge. 

But things seems to be changing now. The Di Marias, Oblaks we used to get with 16, 17, 18 years old are moving more and more regularly to the bigger ones from source.

 

Enzo replacement?

11 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Enzo replacement?

No. This one is a winger.

Enzo replacement would be a huge problem as he became crucial in the team. 

A lot of the team process depends on his capacity to read and organise the game. 

 

6 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Enzo replacement?

They won't need to replace Enzo till the summer unless Real change their mind about coming after him. They got time.

13 hours ago, Nick05 said:

Do players in our youth system need to show talent like Mbappe for them to be given a chance in our first team ?

If any top club in the PL had a talent like Colwill would they send him out on loan again and then spend a combined 180 million on Fofana, Cucurella and Badiashile ?

Was Lukaku so much better than Tammy that we spent 100+ mill while we didn't believe that we could develop Tammy into a capable striker ?

 

The same Tammy who has just 3 league goals this season, and 4 in all competitions?

Lukaku was not the answer- but that doesn't mean that Tammy was.

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

The same Tammy who has just 3 league goals this season, and 4 in all competitions?

Lukaku was not the answer- but that doesn't mean that Tammy was.

The same Tammy who had scored 15  league goals and 3 assists in a season for us before our attack was engulfed with the slow sideways sh*te again. No striker can compensate for that pattern of play.

Not to forget, his 4 goals this season are still more than what Aubameyang has managed till now.

Thats more production at 127 mill less we spent on both. 

We need to try and develop our promising players instead chasing the next quick fix like addicts and hoping the next Messi/Aguero/Halaad/Mbappe signs for us. 

19 hours ago, ducavis said:

We had Musiala in our youth team & he somehow starts for Bayern in 6mths.

 

What is this plan? He spoke about a multi club approach which is questionable if that actually works (see Man City), he hasn’t yet bought any other club but has kept on buying players to stick in the Development squad. Seems to have put the cart before the horse, and if rumours are to be believed counting on other teams like Benfica to develop these players for him. There are 18 & 19yr olds starting regularly for top clubs in Europe, not sure the loan route works anymore.

Musiala was not us - he was 16 and he refused to sign given his German roots and his brother. There was nothing we could do- this wasn’t a Sancho deal.

18 hours ago, Aguia_SLB said:

Talking about scouting, the difference here is the context. 

We're about to bring a 18 years old kid from Denish league, Schjelderup, he's pure talent, and I have no doubt that Benfica have no problems in make him a key player straight away. 

The reason why many of these kids prefer a step like Benfica, Porto, Ajax, etc is exactly that...because they know they will have much bigger chances of playing at a much higher level and more consistently than moving to a team like yours and ending up being loaned because the competition for a position is huge. 

But things seems to be changing now. The Di Marias, Oblaks we used to get with 16, 17, 18 years old are moving more and more regularly to the bigger ones from source.

 

Enzo didn't play yesterday but he's back in training so pretty sure whatever CFC tried to do in order to sign him, didn't work and Benfica will have Enzo till the end of the season at the very least.

8 hours ago, Nick05 said:

The same Tammy who had scored 15  league goals and 3 assists in a season for us before our attack was engulfed with the slow sideways sh*te again. No striker can compensate for that pattern of play.

Yep, and despite those figures when it came to crunch time Lampard didn't trust him and instead turned to a striker who scored 5 league goals in the previous 2 years.

And there was plenty of "slow sideways" games in Lampard's first season, especially at Stamford Bridge.

Edited January 7, 20233 yr by Argo