May 7, 20233 yr 17 minutes ago, Upb78 said: I don't think he's missed any game since he came to the club, maybe he needs to sit the next one out. Yeah .. maybe he needs rest.. even defensively he has been a liability.. arsenal first goal shouldn’t have happened.
May 7, 20233 yr 6 hours ago, Jangz said: I don’t think he is playing with full confidence.. his signature one touch switch of play were missing.. only once attempted that during the match yesterday.. without that there is no difference in his and Jorgi’s game. I hope next season with a fresh start it returns for him. His range of passing is on another planet compared to Jorginho. And the key thing is he sees passes that Jorginho didn't because Enzo has a vision and creativity that Jorginho has never, ever had. Throw in that Enzo can run with the ball too when needed and can shoot, it is so blindingly obvious that he is not just an improvement on J5 but a massive upgrade.
May 7, 20233 yr 33 minutes ago, just said: His range of passing is on another planet compared to Jorginho. And the key thing is he sees passes that Jorginho didn't because Enzo has a vision and creativity that Jorginho has never, ever had. Throw in that Enzo can run with the ball too when needed and can shoot, it is so blindingly obvious that he is not just an improvement on J5 but a massive upgrade. Bit surprised you haven't been highly critical of for continuesly getting beat on transitions though. As with Jorginho most can quite easily bypass him but at least Jorginho is very good positionally, which you may disagree with but there is a reason us and Italy could win major titles with him holding. Enzo's got a better range of passing but we've rarely seen it recently and he's also more creative but again, not so much recently so it remains to be seen if it translates properly to this league. He's also very prone to giving the ball away in highly dangerous situations, that happens every single game with him.
May 7, 20233 yr 45 minutes ago, just said: His range of passing is on another planet compared to Jorginho. And the key thing is he sees passes that Jorginho didn't because Enzo has a vision and creativity that Jorginho has never, ever had. Throw in that Enzo can run with the ball too when needed and can shoot, it is so blindingly obvious that he is not just an improvement on J5 but a massive upgrade. 4 minutes ago, OriginalS said: Bit surprised you haven't been highly critical of for continuesly getting beat on transitions though. As with Jorginho most can quite easily bypass him but at least Jorginho is very good positionally, which you may disagree with but there is a reason us and Italy could win major titles with him holding. Enzo's got a better range of passing but we've rarely seen it recently and he's also more creative but again, not so much recently so it remains to be seen if it translates properly to this league. He's also very prone to giving the ball away in highly dangerous situations, that happens every single game with him. I think you both make very valid points. He is still a very young player and as such prone to mistakes. Place a good defensive minded player alongside and he could really kick on to another level. Did we have our pants pulled down with his fee…undoubtedly, time will tell if it was worth the massive overspend.
May 7, 20233 yr 2 hours ago, charierre said: I think you both make very valid points. He is still a very young player and as such prone to mistakes. Place a good defensive minded player alongside and he could really kick on to another level. Did we have our pants pulled down with his fee…undoubtedly, time will tell if it was worth the massive overspend. You don't need to place a good defensive minded player alongside him, he is totally capable of being at the base of the midfield. Argentina won the World Cup with him playing there, his midfield partners De Paul and MacAllister were always options in front of him, not behind him. It would be redundant to play more defensively and in general, the next manager will do a much better job than Lampard when it comes to defensive coaching so there is no need for an establish world class talent like Enzo to re-invent himself or to get someone to babysit his own position.
May 7, 20233 yr Author 7 minutes ago, Gol15 said: You don't need to place a good defensive minded player alongside him, he is totally capable of being at the base of the midfield. Argentina won the World Cup with him playing there, his midfield partners De Paul and MacAllister were always options in front of him, not behind him. It would be redundant to play more defensively and in general, the next manager will do a much better job than Lampard when it comes to defensive coaching so there is no need for an establish world class talent like Enzo to re-invent himself or to get someone to babysit his own position. Enzo was still the most dribbled past player at the World Cup. It's a weak area of his game. Argentina benefited from having absolute workhorses in De Paul, MacAllister, Alvarez and Di Maria. Enzo looked far more comfortable when Paredes came in to replace De Paul which allowed Enzo a lot more freedom. It was the same way at Benfica with Florentino.
May 7, 20233 yr 4 hours ago, just said: His range of passing is on another planet compared to Jorginho. And the key thing is he sees passes that Jorginho didn't because Enzo has a vision and creativity that Jorginho has never, ever had. Throw in that Enzo can run with the ball too when needed and can shoot, it is so blindingly obvious that he is not just an improvement on J5 but a massive upgrade. if you follow the conversation i am not criticizing him rather the fact that he hasnt been on it last few games with his strengths around passing range. He was definitely something else in the first few matches.. but 3-4 times he had an option to pass which he never took.
May 7, 20233 yr Author 55 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said: Enzo was still the most dribbled past player at the World Cup. It's a weak area of his game. Argentina benefited from having absolute workhorses in De Paul, MacAllister, Alvarez and Di Maria. Enzo looked far more comfortable when Paredes came in to replace De Paul which allowed Enzo a lot more freedom. It was the same way at Benfica with Florentino. Dribbled past per 90 Rice : 0.5 Rodri : 0.7 Partey : 0.9 Lavia : 1.0 Casemiro : 1.4 Enzo : 2.2 To re-illustrate my point that Enzo needs a traditional ball winner/holding midfielder next to him.
May 7, 20233 yr 1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said: Enzo was still the most dribbled past player at the World Cup. It's a weak area of his game. Argentina benefited from having absolute workhorses in De Paul, MacAllister, Alvarez and Di Maria. Enzo looked far more comfortable when Paredes came in to replace De Paul which allowed Enzo a lot more freedom. It was the same way at Benfica with Florentino. Enzo was also a workhorse there, when you cover so much area you get dribbled past but it doesn't mean he's bad defensively. Why Argentina suddenly played much better from the moment Enzo was put in the starting lineup? https://fbref.com/en/players/5ff4ab71/Enzo-Fernandez We're talking about a player that gets 3 tackles per match, in our squad Enzo is right now top 6 when it comes to tackles, it looks like he's getting dribbled past only because he's all over the pitch but it doesn't mean he's bad defensively, he is by all means a complete DM. He would have been at the very least top 3 in the total amount of ball recoveries had he been playing for us from the start of the season. And he's playing for Lampard that is known to be pretty weak defensively as a coach. To illustrate just how much of a work horse he has been overall at some point this season: Edited May 7, 20233 yr by Gol15
May 8, 20233 yr 21 hours ago, OriginalS said: Bit surprised you haven't been highly critical of for continuesly getting beat on transitions though. As with Jorginho most can quite easily bypass him but at least Jorginho is very good positionally, which you may disagree with but there is a reason us and Italy could win major titles with him holding. Enzo's got a better range of passing but we've rarely seen it recently and he's also more creative but again, not so much recently so it remains to be seen if it translates properly to this league. He's also very prone to giving the ball away in highly dangerous situations, that happens every single game with him. I think if jorgi is actually a tempo setter/ wc passer and elite dpl@just and @RIP Mourinho wouldn't have been as critical as they have been all this years. Edited May 8, 20233 yr by Bob stark
May 9, 20233 yr On 06/05/2023 at 02:36, reparto corse said: I don`t really understand the "people hate Rice because he is English" narrative either. Seems like a lot of bollox to me. Nobody would have said something like that about John Terry or Frank Lampard. Or even about some of our rival players like Ferdinand, Gerrard etc. Because back then we didn't have social media with people trying to sound edgy. In fact, the amount of times i've seen Lampard referred to as a roadrunner or a hoofball merchant these days because of his average management career is honestly laughable. On 06/05/2023 at 12:31, Argo said: No one says it about Reece James either. In short it's a deflection tactic for when English players get deserved criticism. I use to get the same crap thrown in my direction when I dared critisize Gary Cahill. The narrative people would have a different opinion on the same player if their name was bit more fancy is borderline offensive. No it isn't, grow up.
May 9, 20233 yr On 07/05/2023 at 15:09, Gol15 said: Enzo was also a workhorse there, when you cover so much area you get dribbled past but it doesn't mean he's bad defensively. Why Argentina suddenly played much better from the moment Enzo was put in the starting lineup? https://fbref.com/en/players/5ff4ab71/Enzo-Fernandez We're talking about a player that gets 3 tackles per match, in our squad Enzo is right now top 6 when it comes to tackles, it looks like he's getting dribbled past only because he's all over the pitch but it doesn't mean he's bad defensively, he is by all means a complete DM. He would have been at the very least top 3 in the total amount of ball recoveries had he been playing for us from the start of the season. And he's playing for Lampard that is known to be pretty weak defensively as a coach. To illustrate just how much of a work horse he has been overall at some point this season: You're proving his point here though with these stats. Its like asking Kante to play as the DM if we ask Enzo to do that also. Sure France won the World Cup with that also, but whenever we had Kante's best seasons at Chelsea he was given freedom to roam and had Matic sat next to him. We all saw Kante as the deepest midfielder under Lmapard, complete waste of his best attributes.
May 9, 20233 yr 40 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said: You're proving his point here though with these stats. Its like asking Kante to play as the DM if we ask Enzo to do that also. Sure France won the World Cup with that also, but whenever we had Kante's best seasons at Chelsea he was given freedom to roam and had Matic sat next to him. We all saw Kante as the deepest midfielder under Lmapard, complete waste of his best attributes. Which formation would you want to give him the "freedom to roam"? Not saying Enzo won't be brilliant for us but prime Kante could roam up and down the pitch for 90 minutes + every week and simultaneously be great at both ends. Enzo isn't really that type of player and he's slow which could be a problem in transition even if he had for example Rice next to him.
May 9, 20233 yr 9 minutes ago, OriginalS said: Which formation would you want to give him the "freedom to roam"? Not saying Enzo won't be brilliant for us but prime Kante could roam up and down the pitch for 90 minutes + every week and simultaneously be great at both ends. Enzo isn't really that type of player and he's slow which could be a problem in transition even if he had for example Rice next to him. See Cesc in the pivot next to Matic under Mourinho. 4231, Pochettino's preference. Give it 2 years: GK Reece Fofana Colwill Chilwell Rice Enzo Madueke Mount Mudryk Striker
May 9, 20233 yr 8 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said: See Cesc in the pivot next to Matic under Mourinho. 4231, Pochettino's preference. Give it 2 years: GK Reece Fofana Colwill Chilwell Rice Enzo Madueke Mount Mudryk Striker I actually think Cesc would fail in a pivot in todays Premier League. Mourinho made it work a decade ago but Conte pretty quickly scrapped that idea. Not saying it can't work with Enzo but he'd have to develop his game defensively in my opinion. And unfortunately I don't think he'll be lucky enough to play beside Rice either unfortunately, I see him & Mount going to Arsenal.
May 9, 20233 yr 6 minutes ago, OriginalS said: I actually think Cesc would fail in a pivot in todays Premier League. Mourinho made it work a decade ago but Conte pretty quickly scrapped that idea. Not saying it can't work with Enzo but he'd have to develop his game defensively in my opinion. And unfortunately I don't think he'll be lucky enough to play beside Rice either unfortunately, I see him & Mount going to Arsenal. Which version of cesc? The version that we got had barely any leg left. In his last year with us, he was even slower than Jorginho. Athletically Enzo is good enough playing in double pivot.
May 9, 20233 yr 3 minutes ago, OriginalS said: I actually think Cesc would fail in a pivot in todays Premier League. Mourinho made it work a decade ago but Conte pretty quickly scrapped that idea. Not saying it can't work with Enzo but he'd have to develop his game defensively in my opinion. And unfortunately I don't think he'll be lucky enough to play beside Rice either unfortunately, I see him & Mount going to Arsenal. Cesc probably would fail in a pivot because he was so immobile, Enzo has Cesc's passing range but in a body that can actually get above walking pace and stand up in a tackle. Having the 'anchor' type player next to him would take a lot of the defensive responsibility away from him so he wouldn't need to develop that side of his game and can concentrate at what he's good at. Yeah i can see Arsenal making Rice a priority in Summer too, luckily there seems to be a fair few 'defensive' mids available at the moment.
May 9, 20233 yr Hopefully @Bob stark @RIP Mourinho are right here. Hopefully we are smart enough to at least pair him up with a player thats strong defensively though. While I think he's a good player I can totally see us going down the Lavia road to pair him up with Enzo in a pivot and that pairing would be doomed to fail.
May 9, 20233 yr 7 minutes ago, OriginalS said: Hopefully @Bob stark @RIP Mourinho are right here. Hopefully we are smart enough to at least pair him up with a player thats strong defensively though. While I think he's a good player I can totally see us going down the Lavia road to pair him up with Enzo in a pivot and that pairing would be doomed to fail. Lavia is 19. You don't want to pair Enzo with a young inexperienced dm. Edited May 9, 20233 yr by Bob stark
May 9, 20233 yr 4 minutes ago, Bob stark said: Lavia is 19. You don't want to pair Enzo a young dm inexperienced dm. Yes, that's what I'm saying. My point is that if we go after Lavia to pair him up with Enzo in midfield we are making a mistake.
May 9, 20233 yr 8 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said: No it isn't, grow up. Boring English name Reece James is widely accepted as world class within the entire fanbase. The majority of the fanbase are accepting of the fact fancy foreign name Kepa Arrizabalaga isn't good enough and needs upgrading on. To name the two prominent examples.
May 9, 20233 yr 7 hours ago, Argo said: Boring English name Reece James is widely accepted as world class within the entire fanbase. The majority of the fanbase are accepting of the fact fancy foreign name Kepa Arrizabalaga isn't good enough and needs upgrading on. To name the two prominent examples. I think it swings both ways. There are people out there who do overrate a player with a fancy name in comparison to someone called Roy Smith. But there are also people who overrate English players just because they are English. I've seen it happen on both ends. Reece James is universally loved on here, so it's not just an anti-British thing.
May 11, 20233 yr On 09/05/2023 at 16:22, Argo said: Boring English name Reece James is widely accepted as world class within the entire fanbase. The majority of the fanbase are accepting of the fact fancy foreign name Kepa Arrizabalaga isn't good enough and needs upgrading on. To name the two prominent examples. Seen plenty of people slating James this season too tbf saying he's lazy. From what i see people widely want Felix who has underformed massively this season and are desperate to sell Mount to fund the deal even though he's carried us for 2 seasons. People praise Fofana every game while constantly slating Chalobah, when i'd argue he's been better over the season. They want RLC shipped out even though most clubs would be lucky to have such a versatile player that won't kick up a fuss on the bench. Cried out for Tammy to be shipped out and got their wish, which in hindsight was poor thinking. Chilwell gets absolute dogs abuse on twitter, while Cucurella somehow get a free ride. The only players i see getting a free pass is Colwill and Maatsen currently and that's because they're with different teams. I'll put money they'll get the same treatment if they get game time next year. FYI this is mainly seen elsewhere online, this forum isn't too bad for it. EDIT: Oh yeah, Gallagher constantly being referred to as a dog too and constant moans under match day squads when he's chosen. Edited May 11, 20233 yr by RIP Mourinho
May 11, 20233 yr 54 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said: Chilwell gets absolute dogs abuse on twitter, while Cucurella somehow get a free ride. Life doesn't happen on Twitter. Cucurella's literally been booed off the pitch both home and away this season so let's not pretend he's had some free ride.
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