14 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Enzo's price was so high because Benfica didn't want to sell him. 

Same as Caicedo/Brighton ... 

 

Transfermarkt "Market Valuations" aren't perfect but this is how they saw it :

 

Enzo: 

Caicedo: 

I don't believe you would be ready to fully remove Enzo's World Cup performance when talking about us signing him. Had it gone the total opposite for Argentina it's a question if our owners would have even considered him to begin with...

35 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I don't believe you would be ready to fully remove Enzo's World Cup performance when talking about us signing him. Had it gone the total opposite for Argentina it's a question if our owners would have even considered him to begin with...

We were discussing why his price was so high, not our motivation for signing him ?

They didn't want to sell him unless we paid the huge release clause in his contract (those are typically in there at an inflated value to deter clubs from buying players you want to keep). So that's what we had to do. We were lucky the deal got done at all, seeing as apparently we initially verbally agreed to pay the release clause, and then went back on that and tried offering a much lower fee plus some players, which seriously pissed them off (understandably). 

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Enzo had an amazing World Cup and won the award as the best young player. This was why his price was so high, everybody saw him as a clear upgrade on Jorginho.

Including you Gol. And he is.

He'd probably be great for a City or Barcelona or someone. Unfortunately, doesn't matter who you are at the moment, thrown into this team of misfits and kids, you're going to struggle.

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

We were discussing why his price was so high, not our motivation for signing him ?

They didn't want to sell him unless we paid the huge release clause in his contract (those are typically in there at an inflated value to deter clubs from buying players you want to keep). So that's what we had to do. We were lucky the deal got done at all, seeing as apparently we initially verbally agreed to pay the release clause, and then went back on that and tried offering a much lower fee plus some players, which seriously pissed them off (understandably). 

The price itself and his World Cup performance go hand in hand, one was there in case the other became a reality and it did.

But another factor might have been important there as well, the club didn't want to have to battle it out with other clubs during the summer as odds of him choosing to come here would have diminished significantly... Which would suggest that Enzo could have signed for e.g. Real Madrid, after all they did sign Tchouameni and later on Bellingham as well.

So it doesn't mean that our club had to do anything at all really, why the things were done the way they were done is because Enzo emerged as a top quality player in everyone's eyes and also as a long term solution for our new midfield, the price was paid because he was seen as a world class player that wasn't going to be a Benfica player for much longer.

Saying that just our club saw him as a world class talent isn't how it happened.

The same thing can be said for Caicedo, he was seen as a top 5 DM player of the PL and if I remember correctly Liverpool wanted to sign him as well, I rest my case.

Edited February 26, 20242 yr by Gol15

15 hours ago, just said:

Ah, the good old days @OriginalS

I suppose I have to admit that debating whether our starters were actually good enough was more fun back when said players were not only crushing Europes elite and 
winning major trophies but also the prestigious individual awards.
The debate have kind of lost its luster when we are an established mid-table side under 3 consecutive managers and the answer is clear for anyone to see 🤣

So are we far enough yet to admit that Enzo isn't the player we can build a team around or is some more pain necessary to recognize the emperors new clothes?

We shouldve never gotten rid of our whole midfield to replace it with what we have, especially at the insane money we paid. At least shouldve kept one experienced player out of Kanté, Jorgi or Kova and made Enzo take directions, not the other way around.

Against Villa Enzo looked worth his price.

Personally think he is not good as a DM, works better in a three.

That means no Gallagher and there goes a lot of our pressing.

This is why it takes managers like Fergie and Klopp about three seasons before the trophies come in.  They need to get players for their system.

Can't control matches anymore and doesn't have the fitness for 60' min of play.

He needs a manager that will restrict his roaming, yes he's a good passer and by all means he should have an assist to his name today but overall the gap between the backline and midfield is still far too wide and he can't cover it.

Pochettino needs to change his role and rest him.

4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Can't control matches anymore and doesn't have the fitness for 60' min of play.

He needs a manager that will restrict his roaming, yes he's a good passer and by all means he should have an assist to his name today but overall the gap between the backline and midfield is still far too wide and he can't cover it.

Pochettino needs to change his role and rest him.

I think he's been playing too many games consecutively without being subbed once, his first half was excellent, but he looked really tired in the second half.

Premier League football looks too fast paced for him. Not the quickest player and gets annoyed too easily.

Just now, Upb78 said:

I think he's been playing too many games consecutively without being subbed once, his first half was excellent, but he looked really tired in the second half.

That's a sign of a bad player-management to me.

Goal v El Salvador yesterday. Simple as.

 

Pointless player.

Absolute dross of a player. I don’t see the “world class” player in there anywhere. Can’t shoot can’t pass. Brutal. 

He's a quality player, the guy needs a rest, simple as that.

Edited March 30, 20242 yr by DidierDrogbalala

9 minutes ago, MyWord said:

Absolute dross of a player. I don’t see the “world class” player in there anywhere. Can’t shoot can’t pass. Brutal. 

Set up a perfect chance for Gusto, but he bottled it. 

He's not world class though, he's nowhere near it.

I don't really see what he offers.

He's not a defensive player winning tackles. He's not an attacking player scoring goals and getting assists. He's not box to box. He's not even really a deep lying playmaker. He just... doesn't do anything, except the odd long cross-field pass.

I thought he and Gallagher were really poor today.  Both offered very little. Gallagher rightly hooked, Enzo probably only got 90 minutes as Poch doesn't seem to rate the alternatives 

Of all the players I expected to get slagged  off today I didn't expect it to be Enzo. Bloke got off the plane 5 hours ago and played 90 minutes.

1 minute ago, timetowaste said:

Of all the players I expected to get slagged  off today I didn't expect it to be Enzo. Bloke got off the plane 5 hours ago and played 90 minutes.

Put a fantastic ball on a plate for Gusto who fluffed his touch. Enzo isn't our problem.

1 minute ago, just said:

Put a fantastic ball on a plate for Gusto who fluffed his touch. Enzo isn't our problem.

Definitely the highlight of his performance but he wasn't remotely in the game enough for me. Against 10 men he should have been directing traffic far more.

2 minutes ago, loz said:

Definitely the highlight of his performance but he wasn't remotely in the game enough for me. Against 10 men he should have been directing traffic far more.

I think once Palmer was moved in the middle Enzo became quite redundant, at that point we should have brought Casadei on.

I completely disagree with the critizissm he's getting here for today's game, he played as a deeper DM (like so many have been demanding) and did well, made some good crosses and some good passes like the ones to Gusto and Sterling. He made the ball move fast and always looked for the vertical pass while others looked content just by passing sideways.

Edited March 30, 20242 yr by Upb78

6 hours ago, Upb78 said:

I completely disagree with the critizissm he's getting here for today's game, he played as a deeper DM (like so many have been demanding) and did well, made some good crosses and some good passes like the ones to Gusto and Sterling. He made the ball move fast and always looked for the vertical pass while others looked content just by passing sideways.

Maybe I am being a bit harsh on him but to me he’s a serious downgrade on Jorginho