5 hours ago, Nibs said:

I understand Silva, Kante & James being rested. But I wouldn't be starting Pulicic or Sterling when we have the likes of Mount, Madueke & Chukwuemeka available and Ziyech should not be getting ANY minutes at this stage. Unfathomable IMO.

Mount cannot start, he is still carrying injury. 

Sterling has to start because he will play vs real and he need to regain match sharpness. 

So only Madueke for puli, then. So you agree with lamp selection. 

 

On 16/04/2023 at 19:10, timetowaste said:

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-fc-frank-lampard-players-fitness-b1074402.html

This article from Frank does sound like an excuse, however, watching us play we do look leggy and way behind the other teams we play, they always seem to want it more and have a lot more energy.

So it begs the question, what the f**k was Potter doing for 6 months?!

I think this is true. 

Chelsea have covered the 2nd least collective distance in the League. Those figures don't seem to correlate to anything meaningful, but it may give some weight to Frank's assertion the players aren't fit enough and not working hard enough.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/2910649

Teams distance covered 2022/23 (back in November)
Team Distance (km)
Spurs 1,683.9
Leicester 1,656.8
Southampton 1,647.8
Newcastle 1,644.1
AFC Bournemouth 1,635.1
Brentford 1,632.3
West Ham 1,630.6
Everton 1,626.4
Fulham 1,589.5
Nott'm Forest 1,584.9
Aston Villa 1,570.6
Wolves 1,562.1
Leeds 1,562.1
Man City 1,552.6
Liverpool 1,537.6
Arsenal 1,526.7
Man Utd 1,486.7
Brighton 1,484.2
Chelsea 1,466.4
Crystal Palace 1,438.5

On 17/04/2023 at 00:10, timetowaste said:

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-fc-frank-lampard-players-fitness-b1074402.html

This article from Frank does sound like an excuse, however, watching us play we do look leggy and way behind the other teams we play, they always seem to want it more and have a lot more energy.

So it begs the question, what the f**k was Potter doing for 6 months?!

Not sure you can blame Potter for our poor fitness because I don’t think it’s something you can fix during the season. Well you can if you have the players run laps around the pitch after games, but with the way our season has panned out it really isn’t ideal. This one is on Tuchel because I have always felt he focuses on the tactical aspect and the team shape rather than the physical aspect. Mitigating circumstances might be his marriage breakdown, and the ownership change might have made him distracted. 
The next manager has to go full Conte on this team to whip them back into shape. He had the Spurs team running 42 full laps of the pitch in preseason, subsequently that resulted in them being fitter than most opponents and scoring late goals regularly. 

15 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

I think this is true. 

Chelsea have covered the 2nd least collective distance in the League. Those figures don't seem to correlate to anything meaningful, but it may give some weight to Frank's assertion the players aren't fit enough and not working hard enough.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/2910649

Teams distance covered 2022/23 (back in November)
Team Distance (km)
Spurs 1,683.9
Leicester 1,656.8
Southampton 1,647.8
Newcastle 1,644.1
AFC Bournemouth 1,635.1
Brentford 1,632.3
West Ham 1,630.6
Everton 1,626.4
Fulham 1,589.5
Nott'm Forest 1,584.9
Aston Villa 1,570.6
Wolves 1,562.1
Leeds 1,562.1
Man City 1,552.6
Liverpool 1,537.6
Arsenal 1,526.7
Man Utd 1,486.7
Brighton 1,484.2
Chelsea 1,466.4
Crystal Palace 1,438.5

 

They really aren’t. Prime example is the Brighton game where Sterling & Pulisic were meant to leading the press and acting as triggers, but you had Enzo & Zakaria regularly busting forward because the former 2 wouldn’t/couldn’t do it. 

4 hours ago, General said:

Does anybody know the last Chelsea manager (interim or permanent ) who lost their first 4 games? because barring a miracle similar to feeding 5 thousand with a few fishes and 5 loaves of Hovis, that honor seems destined to befit Super Frank tomorrow.

It's a shame he's had to lower his stock further by becoming interim, but I empathize completely, its a job offer one simply cant turn down. I know sweet FA about managing/ coaching a club like Chelsea, unlike it seems a lot of knowledgeable posters on this forum who are offering up their critique of his performance to date above, but if Todd & Co came a knocking Id be up for it........

Possibly Danny Blanchflower? I cannot remember when he took over in the 1978-79 season but we had several runs of 4 or more defeats on the trot.

5 hours ago, TheCeleryKing said:

I think this is true. 

Chelsea have covered the 2nd least collective distance in the League. Those figures don't seem to correlate to anything meaningful, but it may give some weight to Frank's assertion the players aren't fit enough and not working hard enough.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/2910649

Teams distance covered 2022/23 (back in November)
Team Distance (km)
Spurs 1,683.9
Leicester 1,656.8
Southampton 1,647.8
Newcastle 1,644.1
AFC Bournemouth 1,635.1
Brentford 1,632.3
West Ham 1,630.6
Everton 1,626.4
Fulham 1,589.5
Nott'm Forest 1,584.9
Aston Villa 1,570.6
Wolves 1,562.1
Leeds 1,562.1
Man City 1,552.6
Liverpool 1,537.6
Arsenal 1,526.7
Man Utd 1,486.7
Brighton 1,484.2
Chelsea 1,466.4
Crystal Palace 1,438.5

 

Better teams normally allow the ball to do the work. It’s the intensity of retrieving it that defines. Saturday we had no intensity in our game, far too many players not prepared to put a shift in. We allowed players to waltz past us without even a challenge or god forbid a bad challenge. You can always get best by a better team on the day but you should at least match their intensity. 

6 hours ago, TheCeleryKing said:

I think this is true. 

Chelsea have covered the 2nd least collective distance in the League. Those figures don't seem to correlate to anything meaningful, but it may give some weight to Frank's assertion the players aren't fit enough and not working hard enough.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/2910649

Teams distance covered 2022/23 (back in November)
Team Distance (km)
Spurs 1,683.9
Leicester 1,656.8
Southampton 1,647.8
Newcastle 1,644.1
AFC Bournemouth 1,635.1
Brentford 1,632.3
West Ham 1,630.6
Everton 1,626.4
Fulham 1,589.5
Nott'm Forest 1,584.9
Aston Villa 1,570.6
Wolves 1,562.1
Leeds 1,562.1
Man City 1,552.6
Liverpool 1,537.6
Arsenal 1,526.7
Man Utd 1,486.7
Brighton 1,484.2
Chelsea 1,466.4
Crystal Palace 1,438.5

 

Those stats also indicate there is little correlation between distance run and league position.

I think they indicate it is possible to play smart and let the ball do the running. Something that Chelsea also struggle with.

On 16/04/2023 at 15:47, nonotnowjim said:

this all comes back to short term 'WE WANT RESULTS NOW' thinking.

I know you were a big fan but fans would definitly have been forgiving if Potter himself had leaned into the actually building for the future instead of doing the exact opposite. Because while you blame supporters for thinking about the present, Potter did the same thing. He prefered Ziyech who we tried to get rid off in January to Madueke, he barely played Mudryk, Fofana got 45 decent minutes only to be banished to dev.squad and never seen again, Carney never had a proper chance, Lewis Hall he exposed by putting him in a position he isn't suitable for at Anfield leading to a terrible game and then he was banished to the development squad and never seen again, Felix on loan was prefered to Mason Mount who's likely to leave the club because of Boehly & Potters actions and you can go on and on.

 

 

18 hours ago, azpi28 said:

 

i seriously think Kepa will be a better manager in the future than Lampard 

I still credit Lampard for reaching top 4 after the transfer ban and developing the likes of Mount, James and Tammy Abraham (not at Chelsea anymore but still). At least that´s something to be proud of.

Regarding his stint at Everton, it`s not like their other managers are doing much better. They had a bit of a new manager bounce when Dyche arrived but they have 1 win in the last 5 games so hardly a big improvement.

Edited April 18, 20233 yr by reparto corse

1 hour ago, OriginalS said:

I know you were a big fan but fans would definitly have been forgiving if Potter himself had leaned into the actually building for the future instead of doing the exact opposite. Because while you blame supporters for thinking about the present, Potter did the same thing. He prefered Ziyech who we tried to get rid off in January to Madueke, he barely played Mudryk, Fofana got 45 decent minutes only to be banished to dev.squad and never seen again, Carney never had a proper chance, Lewis Hall he exposed by putting him in a position he isn't suitable for at Anfield leading to a terrible game and then he was banished to the development squad and never seen again, Felix on loan was prefered to Mason Mount who's likely to leave the club because of Boehly & Potters actions and you can go on and on.

 

 

I agree with Hall however Chucky is bang average, makes Moses look like an ice cold decision maker.

If it was up to me I'd try and get our money back for him this upcoming summer.

Edited April 18, 20233 yr by Argo

11 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Mount cannot start, he is still carrying injury. 

Sterling has to start because he will play vs real and he need to regain match sharpness. 

So only Madueke for puli, then. So you agree with lamp selection. 

 

No I don't agree with Lamps selection as you may feel Sterling needs to regain match fitness whereas I don't think he should be anywhere near the starting line-up as not only are his performances really poor but his attitude and body language are 100% worse.

Lets hope Lamps gets it right tonight as I don't expect a win but it would be nice to salvage a little bit of pride.

  

1 hour ago, OriginalS said:

I know you were a big fan but fans would definitly have been forgiving if Potter himself had leaned into the actually building for the future instead of doing the exact opposite. Because while you blame supporters for thinking about the present, Potter did the same thing. He prefered Ziyech who we tried to get rid off in January to Madueke, he barely played Mudryk, Fofana got 45 decent minutes only to be banished to dev.squad and never seen again, Carney never had a proper chance, Lewis Hall he exposed by putting him in a position he isn't suitable for at Anfield leading to a terrible game and then he was banished to the development squad and never seen again, Felix on loan was prefered to Mason Mount who's likely to leave the club because of Boehly & Potters actions and you can go on and on.

 

 

I wasnt a fan of Potter - I said over and over again that I had big doubts about him, and pointed out the mistakes he was making.

I was a fan however of stability and giving time for things to settle and the process to be given a fair chance to succeed.

1 hour ago, OriginalS said:

I know you were a big fan but fans would definitly have been forgiving if Potter himself had leaned into the actually building for the future instead of doing the exact opposite. Because while you blame supporters for thinking about the present, Potter did the same thing. He prefered Ziyech who we tried to get rid off in January to Madueke, he barely played Mudryk, Fofana got 45 decent minutes only to be banished to dev.squad and never seen again, Carney never had a proper chance, Lewis Hall he exposed by putting him in a position he isn't suitable for at Anfield leading to a terrible game and then he was banished to the development squad and never seen again, Felix on loan was prefered to Mason Mount who's likely to leave the club because of Boehly & Potters actions and you can go on and on.

 

 

Already replied on the "being a fan" comment.

On the other points. I agree the mistake re. Ziyech. That was a bad call.

Madueke, Carney and Hall were all given minutes to be looked at. All hav not looked good enough for a sustained run, and will benefit from simply being exposed to first team training and exposure. I am content with not playing any of them.

Mudryk came having not played for some time (Ukraine league was done), so no issues with his minutes being managed. I have more issues with him not being played in best position.

Mount has been injured. As seen by Franks arrival. Him playing (or not) has little to do with the contract, and more to do with fitness and form.

 

18 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Already replied on the "being a fan" comment.

On the other points. I agree the mistake re. Ziyech. That was a bad call.

Madueke, Carney and Hall were all given minutes to be looked at. All hav not looked good enough for a sustained run, and will benefit from simply being exposed to first team training and exposure. I am content with not playing any of them.

Mudryk came having not played for some time (Ukraine league was done), so no issues with his minutes being managed. I have more issues with him not being played in best position.

Mount has been injured. As seen by Franks arrival. Him playing (or not) has little to do with the contract, and more to do with fitness and form.

 

Bar Hall, you cannot say Madueke and Carney were given a sustained run. 10 minute cameos off the bench is nothing. 

Could of sworn I read a stat that Madueke against West Ham created more chances in a half than any of our players in a match all season. 

26 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Madueke, Carney and Hall were all given minutes to be looked at. All hav not looked good enough for a sustained run, and will benefit from simply being exposed to first team training and exposure. I am content with not playing any of them.

 

 

Who has looked good enough for a sustained run then? Since that trio plus Fofana clearly didn't in your opinion.

I think you are wrong first and foremost and secondly I think you'd still be wrong even if they were much worse than for example Ziyech and Pulisic as them two are on the exit ramp at this club and will play no part in our future. So if it was actually all about the future those 4 youngsters should have been ahead of them in the pecking order even if they weren't quite as good at this moment in time as they are the ones who will be here next season and beyond.

And that's just one example of why no one had any belief in that rebuild under Potter. They had a lot of buzzwords for him, including collaboration but perhaps he forgot to "collaborate" on the fact that he intended to switch formation for a 5th time after we spent most of January buying wingers and a strike for a back 4 system. So there was clearly a massive disconnect somewhere as we bought players for one system and the manager switched to a completely different one. Perhaps he did that because he chased instant results but in that case all of your arguments fall flat on their face in any case.

Edited April 18, 20233 yr by OriginalS

Hard not to criticize Potter but the work he got with all the new players and new club with owners instilling new staff I don't really see how he could have survived other than owners trusting him or a bit of luck. 

If they wanted him to field all new players and test them and still win games he should have just lifted his arms and said it can't be done. 

Frank's in and visibly there is absolutely no change. No goals, no results. 

Sacking Pots just to let Frank see what a workload is ahead doesn't seem to be a very good move....

23 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

So if it was actually all about the future, those 4 youngsters should have been ahead of them in the pecking order, even if they weren't quite as good at this moment in time as they are the ones who will be here next season and beyond.

 

 

I do not agree that throwing in a bunch of youngsters, who have never achieved anything within the game and who are not currently all good enough - is the best way of planning for the future. Particularly given the rough patch we have gone through. That in my mind is akin to throwing them to the lions - and is NOT the best for their future development.

IF you genuinely think that long-term planning is simply playing the kids all the time, then I think you are misguided.

Instead, it is about moulding, nurturing, and shaoping them as players, giving time here and there, having a look at what they can do, having them around seniors to learn from etc.

On the selections of Puli and Ziyech - I agree with you that these are not our future. Potter made mistakes in selecting them (as has Lamps for playing Puli IMO), but for me, he was (rightly or wrongly) trying to balance the harmony of the squad.  But simply saying that we should be playing the kids ahead of them is a jump too far, given my point in the first para of this post, and also given we dont see performances in training, attitude, or have access to the data that our coaches do.

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

No I don't agree with Lamps selection as you may feel Sterling needs to regain match fitness whereas I don't think he should be anywhere near the starting line-up as not only are his performances really poor but his attitude and body language are 100% worse.

Lets hope Lamps gets it right tonight as I don't expect a win but it would be nice to salvage a little bit of pride.

  

Then tell me who do you want to start with the restrictions that I give you. 

Sterling need to play because we need somebody who can run behind against madrid. Murdyk is an alternative and he is faster and but he is still extremely raw. 

Edited April 18, 20233 yr by Bob stark

3 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Then tell me who do you want to start with the restrictions that I give you. 

Sterling need to play because we need somebody who can run behind against madrid. Murdyk is an alternative and he is faster and but he is still extremely raw. 

Give me a player who is raw and hungry to prove himself over a player who can't be arsed and is just happy to bank his £250k a week any day.

15 hours ago, TheCeleryKing said:

I think this is true. 

Chelsea have covered the 2nd least collective distance in the League. Those figures don't seem to correlate to anything meaningful, but it may give some weight to Frank's assertion the players aren't fit enough and not working hard enough.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/2910649

Teams distance covered 2022/23 (back in November)
Team Distance (km)
Spurs 1,683.9
Leicester 1,656.8
Southampton 1,647.8
Newcastle 1,644.1
AFC Bournemouth 1,635.1
Brentford 1,632.3
West Ham 1,630.6
Everton 1,626.4
Fulham 1,589.5
Nott'm Forest 1,584.9
Aston Villa 1,570.6
Wolves 1,562.1
Leeds 1,562.1
Man City 1,552.6
Liverpool 1,537.6
Arsenal 1,526.7
Man Utd 1,486.7
Brighton 1,484.2
Chelsea 1,466.4
Crystal Palace 1,438.5

 

Glad this has now been highlighted. I have been saying this for ages now. Personally I don't think we have been fit enough since Conte 

3 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Glad this has now been highlighted. I have been saying this for ages now. Personally I don't think we have been fit enough since Conte 

What does our distance covered under Tuchel look like? 

Got to hand it to the owners. For as many things Potter was bad at in the CL he had us playing good, even when we lost at Dortmund.

Not content with giving us a miserable domestic season they decided to spoil the CL as well...

9 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

I wasnt a fan of Potter - I said over and over again that I had big doubts about him, and pointed out the mistakes he was making.

I was a fan however of stability and giving time for things to settle and the process to be given a fair chance to succeed.

Sometimes this looks like a fat person who says he was never a fan of cake. 

What are the odds of Lampard finishing with a win percentage of 0%? 

8 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Then tell me who do you want to start with the restrictions that I give you. 

Sterling need to play because we need somebody who can run behind against madrid. Murdyk is an alternative and he is faster and but he is still extremely raw. 

Play both, Sterling false 9 with Mudryk and Madueke as inside forwards. If we wanted to rip Real Madrid with pace that would've been the best option