1 hour ago, ozboy said:

That I think is quite wrong. There will always be good managers prepared to show what they can do. We are a sh** show partly because of the manager. You only have to look at Aston Villa under Gerrard and Aston Villa under Emery to see the difference a manager can make. And Villa weren't a top team but they got a good manager. 

That said I am oft reminded of the old investment banking adage that "if you put a bad business and a good manager together its the business that keeps its reputation".
 

Emery is a good manager, a huge part of what he has achieved is their owner backs him in the market, signed the players he wanted and kept the ones he wanted to keep. If Emery comes to Chelsea this month, he will get the usual treatment a 'bunch of wonder kids' during the transfer window. If manager is the real reason of failure, I'd like to think after getting rid of 3 in about a year, we are bound to get a bit of luck with the next one.

Poch may get sacked before the end of the season, but then what? It most likely be another repeat, and we will be look forward to the next season like Spurs fans been saying every year for the last half a century.

The manger isn’t the problem here, changing him will not fix the issue created by Ted and his wise men 

5 minutes ago, El regreso said:

The manger isn’t the problem here, changing him will not fix the issue created by Ted and his wise men 

It's obvious to everyone that Pochettino is a problem here.

He may not be the only problem but he's very clearly one of them.

 

On 02/01/2024 at 19:51, Nibs said:

Upto 158 pages this thread and no doubt it is full of "he's doing okay" to "he must go" via "knew he was no good, he's f**king Spurs.......................!"

I was a strong advocate for the Pochettino appointment and have gone from happy, to not so sure back to happy and then losing faith. But last couple of performances have restored that faith somewhat. And I think this season, that was always going to be the case, with so many changes and such a young squad and then factoring in injuries. But it's crazy, as I look at our results and games we could / should have won and think we could easily have another 12 points which would put us top 4 and level with Arsenal. I know it's all ifs and buts but IF we had played Petrovic earlier and IF we had a half-decent striker, we would definitely be in a CL place. Let's not forget we are also a semi final v Boro away from a Wembley final and possible silverware.

So yes, there have been disappointments and some very poor performances, but overall, I'm comfortable with where we are. There are some very promising signs that some of the players can be the nucleus of the team for a good few seasons to come and we just need to add some real quality to have us challenging for PL & CL again (Striker and CB). I do want to see Pochettino give more chances to the likes of Mudryk, Madueke & Gilchrist rather than Sterling and Disasi and I honestly feel we can still push for top 4 this season, as it is one of those seasons where everyone is dropping points. Posted a few weeks back that I could see Arsenal winning PL this season and yet now look at them. Hilarious!!

 

Is it too late to retract this?!!

f**k me - I knew this season was always going to be up & down but last night was utter garbage, and I'm sorry - Poch has to take blame rather than sitting on his arse shrugging his shoulders. Honestly don't know where to start, but we failed to break down an understrength, bang average, Championship side. The whole team was useless last night along with the tactics (whatever they were). 

1 hour ago, ozboy said:

That I think is quite wrong. There will always be good managers prepared to show what they can do. We are a sh** show partly because of the manager. You only have to look at Aston Villa under Gerrard and Aston Villa under Emery to see the difference a manager can make. And Villa weren't a top team but they got a good manager. 

That said I am oft reminded of the old investment banking adage that "if you put a bad business and a good manager together its the business that keeps its reputation".
 

The bit in bold is the nagging thought in my mind.

If we are changing the manager, then Xabi Alonso is who I would try for. He's done wonders at Leverkusen ... 

 

Love the banking quote btw 🙂 

Edited January 10, 20242 yr by Sexyfootball

Thinking about it, apart from that Luton game in August, has there been a game where we can all agree we played well in this season that we actually ended up winning? The best performances I can think of are Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City and we drew all 3. 

Edited January 10, 20242 yr by timetowaste

I can't entirely lay all the blame at his feet, half of his first team are in the treatment room including 3 of his back four; he was probably licking his lips at the start of his tenure with the players he had at his disposal but that's gone down the toilet pretty quickly with the injury list and the slow recovery times; let alone a player returning one week to be back on the treatment table the next.  However, there should be enough talent in the players he does have left to at least create a style of play and to progress, but we've only seen a smattering against Arsenal and City - the game against Liverpool was the first game so it could have gone either way but even then the confidence was high.  6 months on and its a sh*t show.  He chops and changes players and positions for seemingly no reason, benches players for no reason, has no patterns of play and still suffers from bad defending and a gutless attack.  There is no progress, and that is what projects are all about, progress.  We are stuck in this cycle of endless inconsistencies; he shows no passion on the sidelines and is certainly no Klopp, Arteta, Jose, Tuchel or Conte, but FFS show some anger so the fans know you're angry and passionate....just as well have a wet lettuce leaf on the sidelines at the moment.     

The players are either lost, despondent or have no confidence or belief in this project or Potch's ideas and like us perhaps see no way ahead.  There is no leadership out on the pitch and not one of them (Silva aside occasionally) will roll up their sleeves and take charge, and you just as well leave the captains armband in the dressing room because no one out there deserves to wear it.  These players need to step up and Potch needs to get his sh*t together or he will be gone and some other smuck will come in and try his luck.

5 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

The bit in bold is the nagging thought in my mind.

If we are changing the manager, then Xabi Alonso is who I would try for. He's done wonders at Leverkusen ... 

 

Love the banking quote btw 🙂 

Alonso rumours are that he'll be heading to Bayern..which frees up TT to take over at Man U.....maybe we can take Pep's brother?  

Just now, CFCCAN said:

Alonso rumours are that he'll be heading to Bayern..which frees up TT to take over at Man U.....maybe we can take Pep's brother?  

TT to Man U ? Still no takers for Potter then LOL

Really did bring the Spuds DNA didn't he! 

Fraud.

Taking bets on when the first "Should Pochettino be sacked ?" poll will appear ... 

We played like 11 strangers, passing a hot potato that no one felt comfortable with, shocking display, False nine and a fit Broja???🤔🤔🤔

I’d give him til the end of the season but purely because there’s no one else out there at the moment. The divs in charge of recruitment havent helped him but he hasn’t done himself any favours with the sh*tty tactics.

1 minute ago, Ballack & Blu said:

False nine and a fit Broja???🤔🤔🤔

On face value it makes no sense, but then you see what happens when Broja comes on ... 🙂

5 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Those asking the question of who was better, poch or potter.

Under Potter we were seeing signs of progress. The results hadn't arrived, but there was some decent football. Go back and watch the games against milan, dortmund and villa - we were playing some really good stuff. 

Under Poch we are also seeing signs of progress in some areas (specifically, we are creating more chances) - but are also seeing us revert to some of the worst of potterball/sarriball . The endless possession for the sake of it, sideways, boring rubbish.

For me there were signs of life under potter, and whilst it would have been a long painful process, we should not have sacked him and instead kept the progression of that project.

Instead after fans crying and tantrums, the owners again pressed reset and started again - essentially setting us back another season, only this time putting us with an ex spud bottlejob who doesn't appear to care all that much. 

TLDNR - Neither potter or Poch were brilliant, however Potter was showing more progress than Poch at commensurate stages. 

 

And do you know who was better than both of them? Tuchel. Miles better. 

Him saying it’s not compulsory for us to be in the final and we should be enjoying being in the semis is the last straw for me. 

I’m sorry, I never call for sackings so early, but this quote paired with the literally zero progress over the last 6 months has put me over the edge. Clueless setups, clueless in-game management, players constantly out of position - the entire world can see we are dog sh*t and we have no actual game plan week after week, and yet he goes and says we played well? What?

I was one of the biggest advocates for hiring him and giving him time but I’m done, get him out please. 

I don’t think the owners will pull the trigger though, we don’t really have any other candidates.

Edited January 10, 20242 yr by dR3

26 minutes ago, dR3 said:

Him saying it’s not compulsory for us to be in the final and we should be enjoying being in the semis is the last straw for me. 

I’m sorry, I never call for sackings so early, but this quote paired with the literally zero progress over the last 6 months has put me over the edge. Clueless setups, clueless in-game management, players constantly out of position - the entire world can see we are dog sh*t and we have no actual game plan week after week, and yet he goes and says we played well? What?

I was one of the biggest advocates for hiring him and giving him time but I’m done, get him out please. 

I don’t think the owners will pull the trigger though, we don’t really have any other candidates.

I'm not his biggest fan but he was lost in translation. 

He was making the very boring point that we can't assume we will win, we can't be complacent. 

Obviously the issue is that if a team sits back we can't break them down. Which is on his coaching team. The players are good enough. 

He is rubbish. Just watch a couple of Bournemouth and Brighton matches to understand what a decent manager can do. They have an identity, are fluid and you can clearly see patterns of play. And on top of that you can clearly see the confidence all those players have. 

The argument that the squad is too young for me is just silly. Young midfielders like Enzo Fernandez, Caicedo and Palmer are 100 times better than all of Bournemouth and Brighton midfielders in their prime. Bar Mitoma, our wingers are way better than Bournemouth and Brighton's. Colwill looked like a rock under De Zerbi, now he is playing left back. 

Yet those two teams plays a brand of football that's a joy to watch compared to ours. Any decent manager with a clear idea of football would do so much more with this squad. Just not Pochettino. He is clueless. The sooner he goes, the better. 

Imagine De Zerbi with a midfield three of Enzo, Caicedo and Palmer and two direct wingers on each side (Nkunku and Madueke). Add a solid centre forward to that and that team would be so great to watch under a good manager. 

3 hours ago, ozboy said:

That I think is quite wrong. There will always be good managers prepared to show what they can do. We are a sh** show partly because of the manager. You only have to look at Aston Villa under Gerrard and Aston Villa under Emery to see the difference a manager can make. And Villa weren't a top team but they got a good manager. 

That said I am oft reminded of the old investment banking adage that "if you put a bad business and a good manager together its the business that keeps its reputation".
 

I would change the word good to right.

Pochettino is a good manager but is he the right manager for us is still to be answered. Unai Emery was good for Sevilla but horrible for Arsenal. He is brilliant for Aston Villa. The circumstances and the club, environment is a big factor as well.

Tuchel is a good manager but wasn't the right one for Boehly. Remains to be seen is he that for Bayern either. 

Good are good, but the environment decides if they are the right ones to their club. 

Been following Chelsea since the times of Porterfield in the early 90’s, and I cant ever remember a Chelsea manager turn these kind of embarrassing results and performances around, - and I dont think Pochettino will be the first. 
Therefore, if I for one second thought Poch was in the top three of our biggest problems, I’d say sack him. However, there’s has been something rotten at the core of the club for a couple of years, which we need to figure out before there’s really any point in discussing the manager. 

- why do we have such an enormous amount of injuries?

- why are we unable to put simple chances away?

- why does Gilchrist feel like a breath of fresh air, just because he actually looks like he cares?

- how have we put ourself in a position where we have become absolutely dependant on a 39 year old centre back - as good as he is playing him in a high line is an issue

- why is it that with seemingly every transfer in and out the club makes, we look worse for it?

- why is losing to a massively understrength mediocre championship side in a semi final fully expected?

- why are we constantly unable to break down a low block?

Potter, Lampard, Tuchel, Poch, Alonso, Emery - whatever, I dont really care anymore. Before these main issues are looked at, it doesn’t really matter to me

2 minutes ago, AndyDowsleftflank said:

Been following Chelsea since the times of Porterfield in the early 90’s, and I cant ever remember a Chelsea manager turn these kind of embarrassing results and performances around, - and I dont think Pochettino will be the first. 
Therefore, if I for one second thought Poch was in the top three of our biggest problems, I’d say sack him. However, there’s has been something rotten at the core of the club for a couple of years, which we need to figure out before there’s really any point in discussing the manager. 

- why do we have such an enormous amount of injuries?

This is a massive problem. Don't know what the answer is.

- why are we unable to put simple chances away?

We don't have a seasoned high caliber striker.

- why does Gilchrist feel like a breath of fresh air, just because he actually looks like he cares?

This is up for debate and is breath of fresh air what we need? Play him 10 games and judge then.

- how have we put ourself in a position where we have become absolutely dependant on a 39 year old centre back - as good as he is playing him in a high line is an issue

Injuries

- why is it that with seemingly every transfer in and out the club makes, we look worse for it?

We have just made a massive overhaul on the squad.

- why is losing to a massively understrength mediocre championship side in a semi final fully expected?

Aston Villa didn't do that much better.

- why are we constantly unable to break down a low block?

This is the same problem as above. Quality of finishing.

Potter, Lampard, Tuchel, Poch, Alonso, Emery - whatever, I dont really care anymore. Before these main issues are looked at, it doesn’t really matter to me

If injuries is down to luck we need better luck, if we manage to find the striker we need most of our problems vanish. Not sure about the major issues.

 

Poch sits there waves his arms a bit and huffs and puffs .Jose, Conte and Tuchel would have been into the players and hammered them into performing or they would have been hooked ,get some balls Poch .

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

On face value it makes no sense, but then you see what happens when Broja comes on ... 🙂

BEFORE Broja there were lots of crosses in the box when Broja came on not even one cross or a proper pass to him. This is all instructions from or lack of instructions from Pochetino.

I feel like a lot of the blame is being directed at players when in fact we are playing without identity or proper shape.

1 minute ago, Gentian said:

BEFORE Broja there were lots of crosses in the box when Broja came on not even one cross or a proper pass to him. This is all instructions from or lack of instructions from Pochetino.

I feel like a lot of the blame is being directed at players when in fact we are playing without identity or proper shape.

Typically Broja is never even in the box for anyone to aim at though ! I suppose that's Pochettino's instructions as well LOL

2 hours ago, OriginalS said:

It's obvious to everyone that Pochettino is a problem here.

He may not be the only problem but he's very clearly one of them.

 

And when you replace him and the same thing happens then what?

Until we fix the core of the club no new manager will fix what’s on field.

Everyone is looking at other clubs and saying they got this manager in blah blah blah and look how they are doing, however what’s always missed is that these clubs are FAR BETETR RUN at this moment in time than US.

So you can get Pep, Klopp or whoever is the flavour of the month manager now, it won’t change a damm thing on field as there is a disconnect there.

One of the reasons Arteta was able to bring some stability and respect back to Arsenal was the alignment with the back room and the fact they started to run the club properly again.

I don’t see anyway the wisemen of Todd will give up control of signings and led a manager build HIS team.