9 minutes ago, Term_X said:

Our problems are coachable.

I feel this malaise of average age excuse/ownership excuse is all a perfect PR storm that only suits Poch.

You can't coach talent that isn't there.

Though I suspect Boehly feels Broja is the perfect 12th man in his 4-4-3 formation

21 minutes ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

You can't coach talent that isn't there.

Though I suspect Boehly feels Broja is the perfect 12th man in his 4-4-3 formation

🤦‍♂️

This again. We have the minimum requirement of quality players here to not be in a crisis, I’m not having coaching methods delude me into thinking otherwise. The positional strategy is an absolute joke, how we operate, even the simple stuff like a cohesive structure.. in-game management. We can see it with our eyes, we can read about it from various tactico reports, we can see the lines, the spaces, the average joe has access to the same data as Vivell himself ffs.

It’s all a mess and we’re stuck with it for this season at least. Doubt the club will pull the trigger on him, as we’ll most likely get a penalty and scrape a 2nd leg win over Boro, then there’s the FA Cup too, not to mention the bad taste left from the Potter change.

A lot has been said about our young squad and this is passed as the reason that we are not handling games the way we should.

when I think of a young player I always see players which want to be adventurous, attacking, willing to take risks. All I see atm moment is young players lacking in confidence and wanting to take the easy and safest way out. Looks like a team shackled.
 

23 minutes ago, Term_X said:

🤦‍♂️

This again. We have the minimum requirement of quality players here to not be in a crisis, I’m not having coaching methods delude me into thinking otherwise. The positional strategy is an absolute joke, how we operate, even the simple stuff like a cohesive structure.. in-game management. We can see it with our eyes, we can read about it from various tactico reports, we can see the lines, the spaces, the average joe has access to the same data as Vivell himself ffs.

It’s all a mess and we’re stuck with it for this season at least. Doubt the club will pull the trigger on him, as we’ll most likely get a penalty and scrape a 2nd leg win over Boro, then there’s the FA Cup too, not to mention the bad taste left from the Potter change.

If De Zerbi is available at the end of the season I'd pull the trigger, no point getting a caretaker

9 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

If De Zerbi is available at the end of the season I'd pull the trigger, no point getting a caretaker

Had the squad guttered but he’s still keeping it together albeit totally shackled nonetheless by Brighton’s stature. His son Mudryk would certainly be happy about a reunion and Colwill will be ecstatic. The big problem is Brighton, contracted until 2026 and I fear we’ve just black listed that club now. 

8 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

It's also not all sunshine and rainbows over at Bayern either. Proving difficult with the board/players already. 

Gone at seasons end....heading to Utd is the rumour..Alonso gets the Bayern job ...but it's only a rumour

9 hours ago, El regreso said:

This is the problem as soon as it’s not going well let’s change managers. 

“Change for change sake is not change”

Until fans understand this we will not improve, putting someone else in this mess is a waste.

 

Let Poch settle the team and club, sort out the mess then bring in the manager we know who will win us trophies, don’t waste a talented manager on the second year into the Ted Lasso circus. 🎪  

Also no elite manager will touch us today we will probably get another Graham Potter type, has a good reputation but hasn’t managed a massive club expecting CL and trophies season in season out.

If you want an elite manager top 5 in the world then no chance they will come now it’s far too messy. 

6 months in and still we haven't seen a style of play or a settled team, regardless of the injuries....he needs to get his sh*t together.  What did he have at Spurs that he doesn't have here....Harry Kane, who bailed him out time and time again, Broja or Jackson are no Harry Kane or anywhere close to him.  He had superstars to bail him out at PSG...he doesn't have them here; now he seems lost or perhaps this is the best Potch can offer?  

4 hours ago, Term_X said:

Had the squad guttered but he’s still keeping it together albeit totally shackled nonetheless by Brighton’s stature. His son Mudryk would certainly be happy about a reunion and Colwill will be ecstatic. The big problem is Brighton, contracted until 2026 and I fear we’ve just black listed that club now. 

He has a release clause that can be triggered in the summer.

I believe virtually all the players are getting worse, not better, under Poch and he needs to go in the summer.

Wonder if the owners still like to chat to Hansi Flick.

9 hours ago, goose said:

A lot has been said about our young squad and this is passed as the reason that we are not handling games the way we should.

when I think of a young player I always see players which want to be adventurous, attacking, willing to take risks. All I see atm moment is young players lacking in confidence and wanting to take the easy and safest way out. Looks like a team shackled.
 

I think exactly this. 

Folk say who could you get now? Well I reckon there are national team coaches. Unpopular as it would be Comte is also at large. Whatever other problems there would be you could guarantee commitment, system and tactics. I’m not advocating for Conte, just pointing out that there are proven winners out there. As someone Argo? he noted  you want the right coach for the team at the time. 

The biggest problem with sacking him is clearly that the same idiots who hired Potter, Lampard and Pochettino in consecutive fashion will also decide the latters replacement.

 

We can't keep sacking managers. If it was up to me I would have just stuck it out with Potter to be honest but we've got Poch now so let's ride it out. 

Besides, I honestly don't see any elite manager wanting to come here. It would have to be another up and coming manager which comes with it's own risks.

Ancelotti went to Everton. The idea that no  "elite" manager would  work with a young expensive squad backed by a well capitalised owner is false in my view.
But in any case it's not clear we need an "elite" manager we need the "right" manager for this team at this period of their development. Managers are a lot cheaper to sack than  players or owners.

I don't agree that sticking it out is the right idea. 

Look at the teams we have beaten. Luton, Wimbledon (cup), Brighton (cup), Fulham, Burnley, Blackburn (cup), Spuds (9 men), Brighton, Sheffield, Palace, Luton, Preston
Of those 12  wins,  Wimbledon, Blackburn, Preston aren't even in the premier league, Sheffield, Burnley and Luton (twice) are the bottom 3 clubs. So more than half the wins are against utterly mediocre opposition.

Why should we ride that out? It's broken, therefore fix it.
The point is that the club management have to get the "right" manager. Potter was chosen with seemingly zero thought or process, Poch was chosen after lots of process but we bought a bill of goods. So never mind buying the right players, let's get the right manager.

What does the right manager have?

1. Ability to get the team to believe in the manager's vision etc

2. Ability to solve problems like injuries, like finding a system that suits the players at his disposal, like in game management

3. Ability to improve the players.

4. Ability to get a team that even if doesn't win delivers credible performances. And if the team delivers enough performances and plays like a team and looks like a team and works like a team then it will get results.

 

Who do we need? 3 words -

 

Neil

f**king

Warnock

1 hour ago, Remodez said:

We can't keep sacking managers. If it was up to me I would have just stuck it out with Potter to be honest but we've got Poch now so let's ride it out. 

Besides, I honestly don't see any elite manager wanting to come here. It would have to be another up and coming manager which comes with it's own risks.

Absolutely no Elite managers would touch us with a 10 foot pole now. 
Some fans still think this is Roman’s Chelsea where we had the pick of the Elite managers. Under Roman we could get any manager we want because he had competent people running the club, people who were respected.

Who do we have running the club now?? Do fans actually know who’s in charge of the football side of Chelsea?

1 hour ago, ozboy said:

2. Ability to solve problems like injuries, like finding a system that suits the players at his disposal, like in game management

We had two senior players on the bench against Middlesborough, one of whom couldn't start for risk of re-injury. How do you solve that?

How do you find a system that suits your players when no one outside of your centre backs and a 19 year old defensive mid the club wanted to loan out can win a header?

It's a tune we're all getting tired of hearing, but it's still true: An injury crisis coupled with several years of poor squad building has left us where we are.

 

32 minutes ago, cfr95 said:

We had two senior players on the bench against Middlesborough, one of whom couldn't start for risk of re-injury. How do you solve that?

How do you find a system that suits your players when no one outside of your centre backs and a 19 year old defensive mid the club wanted to loan out can win a header?

It's a tune we're all getting tired of hearing, but it's still true: An injury crisis coupled with several years of poor squad building has left us where we are.

 

Boro had 14 out injured, then got more injuries during the game, and yet looked a much more cohesive and well coached side than we did, with our team full of international players.

13 minutes ago, dkw said:

Boro had 14 out injured, then got more injuries during the game, and yet looked a much more cohesive and well coached side than we did, with our team full of international players.

Yeah what's the average age of that squad?

How long on average has each player been there / playing in England?

Edited January 11, 20242 yr by cfr95

4 minutes ago, cfr95 said:

Yeah what's the average age of that squad?

How long on average has each player been there / playing in England?

What does any of that have to do with it, our squad is much much better than Boro`s, in every way. 

13 hours ago, goose said:

A lot has been said about our young squad and this is passed as the reason that we are not handling games the way we should.

when I think of a young player I always see players which want to be adventurous, attacking, willing to take risks. All I see atm moment is young players lacking in confidence and wanting to take the easy and safest way out. Looks like a team shackled.
 

I don't understand it. Why is such a young group of players playing that same safe and slow style that previous Chelsea squads have been playing for the past 5 years? Most of the recent starting 11 weren't even part of the squad last season and even the ones have all been made to play that way. We sign all of these young players, but they all play with fear.

Look at these players at previous clubs. 

Caicedo - Brighton played quick one touch, pass and move football. At Chelsea, he is playing slow, taking way too many touches, gets crowded out, and looks sloppy.

Mudryk - I remember watching the videos of him having the ball played in front of him so he could run on to it. At Chelsea he is picking the ball up back to goal 15 yards from the halfway line or is expected to beat two players like Eden Hazard.

Enzo - Every time I watch him play for Argentina, he's all action. He does a bit of everything. At Chelsea, we see none of that, he's slow and just a bit boring to watch.

Colwill - At Brighton, the guy played with confidence. Quick passes out of the back, some excellent long range ones to players in space. At Chelsea, he looks completely lost. Scared, error prone, slow to react, mediocre passing.

I could go on, but I would be here for over an hour. None of these players are playing anything like they were playing before they were playing for Chelsea. Why do we seem like the only club that cannot transition it's playing style? Apart from 3 players, this is an entirely new squad from the team that won the Champions League. So why are they playing the exact same style of football? 

21 minutes ago, dkw said:

Boro had 14 out injured, then got more injuries during the game, and yet looked a much more cohesive and well coached side than we did, with our team full of international players.

Yep, basically, they looked like a team. I can't remember the last time we looked like one.

Just now, dkw said:

What does any of that have to do with it, our squad is much much better than Boro`s, in every way. 

I agree we should be beating Boro 9 times out of 10, and had we taken our chances we would have.

The point I'm making is that yes our players are either good, or have the potential to be good, but we have not built a balanced squad. We lack experience, we lack height, we have a surplus in some positions and a shocking lack of depth in others.
Every other side we play has built (or is building) a squad, we've signed a lot of players without thinking about the squad as a whole.

21 hours ago, just said:

If Bayern hadn't managed to bag Kane for him, I think Tuchel would probably be gone already.

And if Bayern manage to complete this deal for Tuchel he is as good as gone.

Tommy, Tommy, Tommy what are you doing? This is worse than the Aubameyang signing.

14 hours ago, Term_X said:

🤦‍♂️

This again. We have the minimum requirement of quality players here to not be in a crisis, I’m not having coaching methods delude me into thinking otherwise. The positional strategy is an absolute joke, how we operate, even the simple stuff like a cohesive structure.. in-game management. We can see it with our eyes, we can read about it from various tactico reports, we can see the lines, the spaces, the average joe has access to the same data as Vivell himself ffs.

It’s all a mess and we’re stuck with it for this season at least. Doubt the club will pull the trigger on him, as we’ll most likely get a penalty and scrape a 2nd leg win over Boro, then there’s the FA Cup too, not to mention the bad taste left from the Potter change.

What is a crisis though?

Some of the wallys on here would tell you we were in a Crisis under Tuchel coming 3rd and getting to almost every cup final.  Any big club is always 2 or 3 games from being in a crisis that's the nature of the sport now.

Poch was undoubtedly dealt a horrible hand by the owners he's been given the least talented Chelsea squad in decades with the further problem of the fact these untalented players are inexperienced as well.

He's working with absolutely nothing like what you'd expect the squad to look like given the investment.

Has he made a few puzzling decisions? Sure but none are remotely as puzzling as going into the season with Jackson and Broja as the only strikers,  signing a Ukranian refugee for big money solely because he's fast and spending  over £250m on goal shy central midfielders while we don't actually have a proper striker then buying 17 South American kids without actually signing a quality keeper or having any squad depth. Whatever Disasi is supposed to be. £45m? Wow.

The squad has been built horribly and that isn't on Poch. Midtable and a good cup run isn't underachieving for the talent in the squad.

Edited January 11, 20242 yr by Whats_The_Mata?

2 hours ago, El regreso said:

Absolutely no Elite managers would touch us with a 10 foot pole now. 
Some fans still think this is Roman’s Chelsea where we had the pick of the Elite managers. Under Roman we could get any manager we want because he had competent people running the club, people who were respected.

Who do we have running the club now?? Do fans actually know who’s in charge of the football side of Chelsea?

I dare you to go read what people on here used to say about Marina and Bruce.