9 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

Graham Pocher strikes again with his "the performance was good" sh*te. Absolute fraud.

The lads gave everything mate.

Just play a back 3. 

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

The lads gave everything mate.

Pochtecoglu?

Pochs comments before the game, against a 12th place Championship team with 12 injuries that had not won at home since early Novemeber, really was a vote of no confidence in this squad of players.

I wanted him to have the season, but he cannot be talking like that and of he has lost the dressing room he has to go if the call is made on a football basis.

If it is a money one when money comes first, wins second, then there is no issue.

I dont like Poch recent performance BUT I wouldnt trust the current ownership to make a decision for a birthday party let alone hiring ANOTHER manager in 18 months

The reason why I think people are talking crap when they say things are improving is because you only need to look at how we are playing to see that this isn't the case. Sides that are growing and slowly building towards something good have games where they play well and pick up a comfortable win here and there, after that you just need to work to make the team more consistent. We never play well though, even when we win. I haven't come away from a single game this season that I can think of where I thought we were really good and everything clicked. This is why I have no belief that we will actually go anywhere.

You can't grow as a team just by grinding out a few wins here and there. You need to see performances and wins where everything just works and you see a proper team display that wins a game of football comfortably. It almost reminds me of England's so called golden generation, just without having the star names attached to it. They are playing like a bunch of strangers, I don't see a team here. Pochettino has failed to create any chemistry, he's failed to improve any player and he's failed to create anything that looks anything close to a team.

This whole argument about the manager lost the dressing room, isn't that happening way too often at Chelsea? Potter lost it after 6 months, Lampard never had it, Tuchel lost it after about a year, now Poch lost it. Are they all frauds or there's a common denominator there? At this level, I don't think manager needs to teach or remind a player to track a runner in the box, hit a simple pass, or hit the target from 5 yards out. Bad luck asides, when these keep happening, the players have to take responsibilities. A lot of these players are on 7-8 deals, by this rate how many managers do we expect to sack & hire in the next 5 years?😅 For me, at least Poch deserves this season, until it's reaching the low end of Potter's era. There are managers making good progress at other clubs, for sorry to say maybe those clubs are better run, and actually back the managers in transfer markets. This is some long term projects to bring back greatness, plenty pains to come before joy 🤫

47 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

This whole argument about the manager lost the dressing room, isn't that happening way too often at Chelsea? Potter lost it after 6 months, Lampard never had it, Tuchel lost it after about a year, now Poch lost it. Are they all frauds or there's a common denominator there? At this level, I don't think manager needs to teach or remind a player to track a runner in the box, hit a simple pass, or hit the target from 5 yards out. Bad luck asides, when these keep happening, the players have to take responsibilities. A lot of these players are on 7-8 deals, by this rate how many managers do we expect to sack & hire in the next 5 years?😅 For me, at least Poch deserves this season, until it's reaching the low end of Potter's era. There are managers making good progress at other clubs, for sorry to say maybe those clubs are better run, and actually back the managers in transfer markets. This is some long term projects to bring back greatness, plenty pains to come before joy 🤫

The average tenure of a premier league manager was about 2 years according to this 2022 BBC article:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/63341798#:~:text=Who are the longest-serving Premier League managers%3F&text=While the average time for,at the English football pyramid.

As we do have new owners and a young squad full of injuries I would actually expect manager tenure to be shorter than the average. Since Abramovitch took over we have had many managers.

If I look at our stats Raneri 3.7 years, Mourinho 3.2, Grant about 8 months, Scolari 7 months, Ancelotti 2 years, Villas Boas 9 months, Di Matteo 9 months, Benitez 6 months, Mourinho 2 about 2.5 years, Conte 2.25 years, Sarri 1 year, Lampard 18  months, Tuchel 18 months, Potter 7 months, Poch about 7 months so far.

So about 6 of our last 15 managers have been sacked after  about the same length of time as Poch. Some of those managers had way better records than Poch and had far more experienced squads to work with. In terms of win % Poch is not the worst but he is bottom quartile and you can blame injuries and the squad if you want to. However if we use the eye test (was it a good performance) i would also rate Poch very low.

So traditionally at Chelsea for a team that looks bad and has a bad win percentage about now or the next month is when you would get sacked, at least in my opinion.

13 minutes ago, ozboy said:

The average tenure of a premier league manager was about 2 years according to this 2022 BBC article:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/63341798#:~:text=Who are the longest-serving Premier League managers%3F&text=While the average time for,at the English football pyramid.

As we do have new owners and a young squad full of injuries I would actually expect manager tenure to be shorter than the average. Since Abramovitch took over we have had many managers.

If I look at our stats Raneri 3.7 years, Mourinho 3.2, Grant about 8 months, Scolari 7 months, Ancelotti 2 years, Villas Boas 9 months, Di Matteo 9 months, Benitez 6 months, Mourinho 2 about 2.5 years, Conte 2.25 years, Sarri 1 year, Lampard 18  months, Tuchel 18 months, Potter 7 months, Poch about 7 months so far.

So about 6 of our last 15 managers have been sacked after  about the same length of time as Poch. Some of those managers had way better records than Poch and had far more experienced squads to work with. In terms of win % Poch is not the worst but he is bottom quartile and you can blame injuries and the squad if you want to. However if we use the eye test (was it a good performance) i would also rate Poch very low.

So traditionally at Chelsea for a team that looks bad and has a bad win percentage about now or the next month is when you would get sacked, at least in my opinion.

I think in the old days under Roman he would have been gone with the current record. With the new owners it is hard to know. Last season they got rid of Potter at a pointless time when they may as well have kept him for the rest of the season. I won't be surprised if they do something stupid like that again.

24 minutes ago, ozboy said:

The average tenure of a premier league manager was about 2 years according to this 2022 BBC article:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/63341798#:~:text=Who are the longest-serving Premier League managers%3F&text=While the average time for,at the English football pyramid.

As we do have new owners and a young squad full of injuries I would actually expect manager tenure to be shorter than the average. Since Abramovitch took over we have had many managers.

If I look at our stats Raneri 3.7 years, Mourinho 3.2, Grant about 8 months, Scolari 7 months, Ancelotti 2 years, Villas Boas 9 months, Di Matteo 9 months, Benitez 6 months, Mourinho 2 about 2.5 years, Conte 2.25 years, Sarri 1 year, Lampard 18  months, Tuchel 18 months, Potter 7 months, Poch about 7 months so far.

So about 6 of our last 15 managers have been sacked after  about the same length of time as Poch. Some of those managers had way better records than Poch and had far more experienced squads to work with. In terms of win % Poch is not the worst but he is bottom quartile and you can blame injuries and the squad if you want to. However if we use the eye test (was it a good performance) i would also rate Poch very low.

So traditionally at Chelsea for a team that looks bad and has a bad win percentage about now or the next month is when you would get sacked, at least in my opinion.

Di Matteo and benitez don't count as we're only ever really interims and sarri didn't get sacked. 

Scolari and Potter are the only managers we've sacked this quickly. The latter because we were heading towards relegation. 

Potter or Poch, who is better?

20 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Di Matteo and benitez don't count as we're only ever really interims and sarri didn't get sacked. 

Scolari and Potter are the only managers we've sacked this quickly. The latter because we were heading towards relegation. 

By the time Potter was sacked we were virtually safe from relegation and had arguably shown a marginal improvement in his last month. We could have given him the rest of the season without much risk. After all the record under Frank's brief tenure was even worse.

3 minutes ago, forbzy said:

By the time Potter was sacked we were virtually safe from relegation and had arguably shown a marginal improvement in his last month. We could have given him the rest of the season without much risk. After all the record under Frank's brief tenure was even worse.

We should have allowed him to see out the season, given what we saw happen with Lamps that is so obvious now.

Pochettino is the interim manager. He’s just looking after things until the summer when we can fix the deficiencies in the squad and get key players back from injury. Then next season we’ll likely give the job to someone else. 

I’m exhausted defending him. No real playing identity, no passion, a week to prep for games and we’re always second best, no motivation, no ability to change, no improvement of players, no real management of injuries. 

Struggling to think what he has actually improved. 

It’s a case of the Emperors New Clothes with him it doth seem, or in our case new rags. He’s clueless unless most of us lot and football punditry in general is and he’s right on track with this squad and project. Results and performances therein really do seem to indicate the former not the latter. Zero progression this season to date, that can’t have been the Boards expectations after such investment and such an exhaustive process to appoint SFL’s successor. 

Those asking the question of who was better, poch or potter.

Under Potter we were seeing signs of progress. The results hadn't arrived, but there was some decent football. Go back and watch the games against milan, dortmund and villa - we were playing some really good stuff. 

Under Poch we are also seeing signs of progress in some areas (specifically, we are creating more chances) - but are also seeing us revert to some of the worst of potterball/sarriball . The endless possession for the sake of it, sideways, boring rubbish.

For me there were signs of life under potter, and whilst it would have been a long painful process, we should not have sacked him and instead kept the progression of that project.

Instead after fans crying and tantrums, the owners again pressed reset and started again - essentially setting us back another season, only this time putting us with an ex spud bottlejob who doesn't appear to care all that much. 

TLDNR - Neither potter or Poch were brilliant, however Potter was showing more progress than Poch at commensurate stages. 

 

59 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Those asking the question of who was better, poch or potter.

Under Potter we were seeing signs of progress. The results hadn't arrived, but there was some decent football. Go back and watch the games against milan, dortmund and villa - we were playing some really good stuff. 

Under Poch we are also seeing signs of progress in some areas (specifically, we are creating more chances) - but are also seeing us revert to some of the worst of potterball/sarriball . The endless possession for the sake of it, sideways, boring rubbish.

For me there were signs of life under potter, and whilst it would have been a long painful process, we should not have sacked him and instead kept the progression of that project.

Instead after fans crying and tantrums, the owners again pressed reset and started again - essentially setting us back another season, only this time putting us with an ex spud bottlejob who doesn't appear to care all that much. 

TLDNR - Neither potter or Poch were brilliant, however Potter was showing more progress than Poch at commensurate stages. 

 

Indeed Jim. In other words be careful for what you wish for guys and gals. Anyone would be better than Potter right?

4 hours ago, ozboy said:

The average tenure of a premier league manager was about 2 years according to this 2022 BBC article:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/63341798#:~:text=Who are the longest-serving Premier League managers%3F&text=While the average time for,at the English football pyramid.

As we do have new owners and a young squad full of injuries I would actually expect manager tenure to be shorter than the average. Since Abramovitch took over we have had many managers.

If I look at our stats Raneri 3.7 years, Mourinho 3.2, Grant about 8 months, Scolari 7 months, Ancelotti 2 years, Villas Boas 9 months, Di Matteo 9 months, Benitez 6 months, Mourinho 2 about 2.5 years, Conte 2.25 years, Sarri 1 year, Lampard 18  months, Tuchel 18 months, Potter 7 months, Poch about 7 months so far.

So about 6 of our last 15 managers have been sacked after  about the same length of time as Poch. Some of those managers had way better records than Poch and had far more experienced squads to work with. In terms of win % Poch is not the worst but he is bottom quartile and you can blame injuries and the squad if you want to. However if we use the eye test (was it a good performance) i would also rate Poch very low.

So traditionally at Chelsea for a team that looks bad and has a bad win percentage about now or the next month is when you would get sacked, at least in my opinion.

There are worlds of difference between the 2 ownership. Roman was about winning at all cost (at times patience would have served us better), this new mob is about some long term project with details yet to be finalized. So there's very little common ground comparing sacking of Potter and Scolari. Roman probably would have sacked Poch by now, but he would have given him a much better team to work at the start. We didn't win those trophies based on managers bounce, but good players. Let's say we sack Poch tomorrow, whats next? Players will put more effort in, more shots on targets, and end of injury crisis? We are such a sh1tshow, be a coup if we even managed to get Moyes  as the next manager.

 

Makes too many errors with his selection.. was getting bailed out by second half comebacks ..

let’s do it again- Colwill isn’t a left back - can we stop playing him there.. you had a striker on a high why was he on the bench .. why take our most potent and creative player and neutralise to accommodate Gallagher/enzo .

why do we need 3 in the middle against a championship side ? 
 

why sub Madueke when it was clear as day that Sterling was the problem

why take off Enzo instead of Gallagher 

maybe that’s why I am just an average joe and not a manager since logic seems to defy what managers need to do.

50 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

 We are such a sh1tshow, be a coup if we even managed to get Moyes  as the next manager.

 

That I think is quite wrong. There will always be good managers prepared to show what they can do. We are a sh** show partly because of the manager. You only have to look at Aston Villa under Gerrard and Aston Villa under Emery to see the difference a manager can make. And Villa weren't a top team but they got a good manager. 

That said I am oft reminded of the old investment banking adage that "if you put a bad business and a good manager together its the business that keeps its reputation".
 

It really is incredible that he was hired in the first place. Did no one bother to watch any of his games at PSG? He was an absolute tragedy there.

The last time he was somewhat impressive in his managerial career Mourinho was still polishing his latest league title (with us) to give everyone an indication of how long ago that was and also how much football have moved on since. Mourinho is a dinosaur at this point but Pochettino is an even bigger one.

Is he sacked yet?

Absolutely abysmal last night, got literally nothing right with his moronic substitutions, I have no idea what on earth his plan is. His only plan seems to be sticking as many players out of position as possible, then when that doesnt work stick some more players on out of position.

Why get Broja firing, see the confidence return then dump him on the bench, he needs game time. Then play Palmer as that false 9 bullsh*t, totally negating his best attributes. Madueke causing them all kinds of problems, Sterling stinking the place up, so who do you take off....thats right....Madueke. And bring Mudryk on to play with his back to goal. 

Colwill is not a LB, he will never be a LB, he is however one of our best CB`s and much better than the likes of Disasi, so stop doing this stupid sh*t with him, destroying any confidence he had.

Absolutely abysmal, stinks of a manager to to show how clever he is. Get rid now.

2 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

Is he sacked yet?

Surely it must be close.

The owners and directions may be a bit thick but I can't imagine they are just going to idly watch Pochettino destroying everyone confidence. If you had asked me before the season who our 3 best talents were I would have answered Colwill, Enzo and Caicedo.

Poch is ruining all of them for no good reason. Its obvious on the stats, on the eye test and everything else.