A lot of things are not right though I do like our ability to keep going and getting late goals to get a result.

Seem to remember under other managers sometimes we would seem to give up.

3 minutes ago, strider6004 said:

A lot of things are not right though I do like our ability to keep going and getting late goals to get a result.

Seem to remember under other managers sometimes we would seem to give up.

I agree. Most of the best teams make a habit of scoring important late goals. It is encouraging to see we have started to do that it recent weeks. While they are plenty of other areas that need improvement that is one thing that feels like a positive.

5 hours ago, Gol15 said:

This good of a season nobody expected, at all. Not even Pep, so it's not a dig at anyone in particular but it shows Pochettino is doing a great job with Palmer and Palmer did publicly say that he's happy with the manager.

That's what I would say if I was consistenty first on the team sheet, scoring regularly and being a shoe in for POTY! But is that on Pochettino or on Palmer himself? I'd say the latter, he's matured, hard working and ridiculously talented.

Edited April 5, 20242 yr by Valerie

2 hours ago, Valerie said:

That's what I would say if I was consistenty first on the team sheet, scoring regularly and being a shoe in for POTY! But is that on Pochettino or on Palmer himself? I'd say the latter, he's matured, hard working and ridiculously talented.

You're right, but hey look at it this way, Pochettino is giving the kid all space and the freedom to shine. So it's a win-win, nobody knows we're on the trajectory to concede 60 goals this season...

But if you want to make it about you, my wild guess would be you're more of a big game player, scoring is a matter of mood for you and who cares about consistency when you shine when it really matters?

9 hours ago, CFCCAN said:

Pretty difficult to sort us out defensively when all the first choice players are on the treatment table, James, Chillwell, Fofana, Colwill, ....and its a stupid idea IMO to leave Silva on the bench when everyone else is injured; he's the only one that has the experience and know how to marshal and organize the defence.  If he's not going to play him, then respect him and let him leave the club early, don't embarrass him by sticking him on the bench every week for the next 10 or so games. 

It's not just about personnel though, you had Cucu at RB at one point that led to a goal. Our whole shape is mental, it's like we need to completely start this back up from the back again. It's good that we are scoring goals but I can't see the defence getting sorted out anytime soon. 

This is why I like Postecoglou. He gets it, he really understands what makes a club tick. Getting into the champions league is not an end in itself. It's what happens when you have a team that is consistently challenging for the title. 

https://www.espn.com.au/football/story/_/id/39879509/spurs-financial-losses-impact-transfer-plans-postecoglou

And of course he is articulate and is prepared to talk about it. Klopp is somewhat the same.

Edited April 5, 20242 yr by ozboy

14 hours ago, Remodez said:

Going to have to disagree. He wasn't lucky to win, he would have been unlucky if we had lost that game. 

We had far better chances and should really have scored about 5 goals. For all your lamenting of our defending, their goals came from individual errors. I'm not really sure how you can blame individual errors on Poch. 

You can blame the manager if a team consistently makes individual errors. Yes there were two goals conceded from individual errors but there were countless other misplaced passes. The upside is that there are also lots of brilliant passes.  Sarri ball may be less fun than Poch ball but they are both the responsibility of the manager.

13 hours ago, Gonoir Beniashile said:

How is it entertaining to spend most of the match f**ked off because we let a 2 goal lead slip and were staring defeat in the face?

You don't understand entertainment. The joy of the hero on the backfoot through the entire movie but eventually overcoming the bad guy. That entertainment is much bigger in sport because unlike the movies the good guys don't always win. 

6 hours ago, Victor90 said:

It's not just about personnel though, you had Cucu at RB at one point that led to a goal. Our whole shape is mental, it's like we need to completely start this back up from the back again. It's good that we are scoring goals but I can't see the defence getting sorted out anytime soon. 

That is what you called transition defense. Even a st can end up as cb, normal stuff. 

 

 

17 hours ago, Remodez said:

Going to have to disagree. He wasn't lucky to win, he would have been unlucky if we had lost that game. 

We had far better chances and should really have scored about 5 goals. For all your lamenting of our defending, their goals came from individual errors. I'm not really sure how you can blame individual errors on Poch. 

It is always combination of both. Poch need to make us more compact but at the same time we have seen this same player making 😵‍💫😵‍💫 mistake. 

There is an easy and proven way to solve this. Which is what TT did. What you do is give these players less defensive responsibility, but it is not through magical tactic. 

Just play one more defender, it can be a cb, fb, midfielder, even attacker but he need to be able to really defend and stop playing kids. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 20242 yr by Bob stark

How I see Pochettino approaching this task is: he let's players be players. He doesn't stifle their creativity like Jose or Pep. With young and experienced players you need a bit more firm hand. You actually need to go very specific on why you do that or don't do that. He is not running an army but a group of artists. He lets players learn the mistakes inside games. In long run I think that is good but here and now for fans it is horrible watching expensive players making simple mistakes game after game. 

I think he is doing 7/10 work. Which for me is enough to go on towards the next season. 

I think he needs to add some more rules for players for next season. And give specific instructions to individual players. 

 

6 minutes ago, evissy said:

How I see Pochettino approaching this task is: he let's players be players. He doesn't stifle their creativity like Jose or Pep. With young and experienced players you need a bit more firm hand. You actually need to go very specific on why you do that or don't do that. He is not running an army but a group of artists. He lets players learn the mistakes inside games. In long run I think that is good but here and now for fans it is horrible watching expensive players making simple mistakes game after game. 

I think he is doing 7/10 work. Which for me is enough to go on towards the next season. 

I think he needs to add some more rules for players for next season. And give specific instructions to individual players. 

 

Ultimately though the vast majority of players want to win trophies. Poch has only ever won a trophy when he was in the weakest of the 'big' Eutopean leagues at the club with a huge financial advantage.

He is not an elite manager and never will be. That said we aren't an elite club just now.

 

Unless there is some massive change of thinking within the club, Will be here next season so im getting used to it. 

there will be man children who will soil their nappies and throw rattles out of the pram demanding him be sacked, as demonstrated around here with a brilliant win against United when it upset them. 

So with that in mind - I think im going to just enjoy the football served up between now and end of season, see where we end up and then enjoy the summer. 

Have fun grinding the axe in each other folk. 

 

2 hours ago, evissy said:

How I see Pochettino approaching this task is: he let's players be players. He doesn't stifle their creativity like Jose or Pep. With young and experienced players you need a bit more firm hand. You actually need to go very specific on why you do that or don't do that. He is not running an army but a group of artists. He lets players learn the mistakes inside games. In long run I think that is good but here and now for fans it is horrible watching expensive players making simple mistakes game after game. 

I think he is doing 7/10 work. Which for me is enough to go on towards the next season. 

I think he needs to add some more rules for players for next season. And give specific instructions to individual players. 

 

The problem with that romantic vision of Pochettino’s coaching ability is that we don’t have a team of artists but a bunch of cowboys that keep conceding in set pieces, giving the ball away due to lack of understanding of where the others are going to be, etc If that was the good way of coaching, we could have hired anyone for a fraction of the money because all that it is required is to tell the players to express themselves on the pitch.

When you let these young players be young players they actually want these games we saw against MU. They prefer last minute 4-3 winner totally dismissing farcical defending as it doesn't bother them. These young boys have seen these crazy Premier League games when they watched them at home being children. They haven't really grown up watching 04-05 JT-Carvalho partnership. They have grown up watching some epic 8-12 goal fests and they want that. 

If you let them decide (as Pochettino seems to do) they want just go forward 120 miles an hour. This is why Cole Palmer has 24 goal contributions and our defence is probably among the worst in the league. They love the start of the game and expect something beautiful 85-95 mins. Start of second half is irrelevant. It is just that boring period before 90 minute epic finish. 

This for me is the reason I like the approach of the club and Pochettino. Let these young lads mould the football, the club and let them lead. 

Even in next season when hopefully we are closer to the top the young players decide we don't want to let in stupid goals and learn to pick their battles inside 90 minutes. 

After Pochettino dropped Silva I think it has been chaos. Silva is the one person and player who kept hold of old values inside the squad. Now that he is not playing our defending is in free fall but at the same time players are storming forward and we are seeing goals scored as well. I actually prefer the young players learning by themselves rather than Silva telling them...

My hope is the club is fine with players learning as they go.

3 hours ago, evissy said:

How I see Pochettino approaching this task is: he let's players be players. He doesn't stifle their creativity like Jose or Pep. With young and experienced players you need a bit more firm hand. You actually need to go very specific on why you do that or don't do that. He is not running an army but a group of artists. He lets players learn the mistakes inside games. In long run I think that is good but here and now for fans it is horrible watching expensive players making simple mistakes game after game. 

I think he is doing 7/10 work. Which for me is enough to go on towards the next season. 

I think he needs to add some more rules for players for next season. And give specific instructions to individual players. 

 

7/10 would mean he's an above average job, don't take this the wrong way but are you mental 😂. Would you have been giving him this score if we'd lost that United game 3-2? Because it feels like you and others have forgotten how awful we were after we scored our second goal up until the 99th minute.

1 minute ago, timetowaste said:

7/10 would mean he's an above average job, don't take this the wrong way but are you mental 😂. Would you have been giving him this score if we'd lost that United game 3-2? Because it feels like you and others have forgotten how awful we were after we scored our second goal up until the 99th minute.

My point is he is probably a good coach for this young group. If Tuchel had this job he'd played 3 at back and used only the most experienced players he had in his disposal. He'd always go for result rather than longevity. This is exactly what he did with us. I am pretty sure Palmer wouldn't be the Palmer we now have. He'd be strained to defend or to do something he doesn't want to do. Palmer wants to win but he wants to be what he is now. If he is any kind of leader he will push the other guys to do their jobs.

17 hours ago, Gol15 said:

You're right, but hey look at it this way, Pochettino is giving the kid all space and the freedom to shine. So it's a win-win, nobody knows we're on the trajectory to concede 60 goals this season...

But if you want to make it about you, my wild guess would be you're more of a big game player, scoring is a matter of mood for you and who cares about consistency when you shine when it really matters?

I would consistently be in the mood for scoring, big games as well as small games, three points is three points!

Pochettino staying on next season and us continuing in such a disorganized and chaotic way can only damage almost every players development bar the ones who can thrive in completely free roles like Palmer.
I am absolutely astonished that there is no balance and no organization to us after 10 months. Madueke dived v United and that led to a lucky win against the sh*ttiest United side i've seen in my life (that's still ahead of us in the standings) but who in their right mind would have liked him to stay on if we lost that one? If anything we look like we did under Lampard when everything was falling apart towards the end, difference being that we now have a star talent in attacking areas that will save the manager quite consistently.

What should be clear as day is that this group of players need a manager that will coach and organize the team starting with the defence and building from there. The soft penalties and overtime goes that are saving Poch's arse time and time again is not a sustainable strategy for obvious reasons.

Edited April 6, 20242 yr by OriginalS

7/10 😅 amazing...

2 hours ago, evissy said:

When you let these young players be young players they actually want these games we saw against MU. They prefer last minute 4-3 winner totally dismissing farcical defending as it doesn't bother them. These young boys have seen these crazy Premier League games when they watched them at home being children. They haven't really grown up watching 04-05 JT-Carvalho partnership. They have grown up watching some epic 8-12 goal fests and they want that. 

If you let them decide (as Pochettino seems to do) they want just go forward 120 miles an hour. This is why Cole Palmer has 24 goal contributions and our defence is probably among the worst in the league. They love the start of the game and expect something beautiful 85-95 mins. Start of second half is irrelevant. It is just that boring period before 90 minute epic finish. 

This for me is the reason I like the approach of the club and Pochettino. Let these young lads mould the football, the club and let them lead. 

Even in next season when hopefully we are closer to the top the young players decide we don't want to let in stupid goals and learn to pick their battles inside 90 minutes. 

After Pochettino dropped Silva I think it has been chaos. Silva is the one person and player who kept hold of old values inside the squad. Now that he is not playing our defending is in free fall but at the same time players are storming forward and we are seeing goals scored as well. I actually prefer the young players learning by themselves rather than Silva telling them...

My hope is the club is fine with players learning as they go.

My god, I’m not sure where to start but the whole text is such a romantic view of football that it probably belongs to the beginning of the sport. These players, contrary to what you’ve written, didn’t grow up watching 8-12 goals epics, they grew up watching very tactical matches, Conte, Sarri, Mou, Pep or Klopp, except for the last one are all quite tactical. What they want is to enjoy themselves, but eventually they’ll want to win silverware and that’s the coach’s role at this point of their careers,to coach them to grow into a winning mentality. Kane might have enjoyed his career at Spurs, but now he’s older he’s probably realising what a waste of time was to spend most of it at that Mickey Mouse of a club. Pochettino is not coaching them, is letting them free and ultimately is going to hurt their careers because they’re not at youth level, they are at a professional level where they have to learn how to win and show the results.

2 hours ago, evissy said:

My point is he is probably a good coach for this young group. If Tuchel had this job he'd played 3 at back and used only the most experienced players he had in his disposal. He'd always go for result rather than longevity. This is exactly what he did with us. I am pretty sure Palmer wouldn't be the Palmer we now have. He'd be strained to defend or to do something he doesn't want to do. Palmer wants to win but he wants to be what he is now. If he is any kind of leader he will push the other guys to do their jobs.

What is Pochettino doing that is setting them up to be good in the long run? 

They are looking less and less like a team by the game and are relying on individual moments from Palmer. You mentioned Pochettino letting players learn from their mistakes, but I think that is ridiculous seeing as they're not learning, they're getting worse. For example, why has Pochettino done absolutely nothing to change how we approach set pieces or crosses into the box? Every single team plays crosses to the back post.

There are zero signs of anything improving or anybody learning. It's like somebody said the other day, it's just a slug fest in every single game we play, no matter who the opposition is. Even earlier in the season we were going through periods of a game where we would have some level of control, but we never have that now. It's like tactics have gone out of the window.

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

What is Pochettino doing that is setting them up to be good in the long run? 

They are looking less and less like a team by the game and are relying on individual moments from Palmer. You mentioned Pochettino letting players learn from their mistakes, but I think that is ridiculous seeing as they're not learning, they're getting worse. For example, why has Pochettino done absolutely nothing to change how we approach set pieces or crosses into the box? Every single team plays crosses to the back post.

There are zero signs of anything improving or anybody learning. It's like somebody said the other day, it's just a slug fest in every single game we play, no matter who the opposition is. Even earlier in the season we were going through periods of a game where we would have some level of control, but we never have that now. It's like tactics have gone out of the window.

The way he’s describing Pochettino’s methods you’d think that we were talking about children at Cobham academy. The reality is that these players have made it to professional level. They are young but they’ll want in a few years time to show silverware in their CV. If they don’t coach them how to defend set pieces, coach them how to develop an understanding about how to play with your team mates, how to attack and then get back into defensive position, etc they’ll have zero chances of making this Chelsea a title contender but, worse for them is that if they want to move to other top team, they won’t know how to play in a team. You can let small children play in the playground, but you’re expected to know how to read and how to work with colleagues when you’re an adult looking for a job.

Edited April 6, 20242 yr by RMH

 

19 hours ago, Bob stark said:

That is what you called transition defense. Even a st can end up as cb, normal stuff. 

 

 

Anyone with a pair of eyes can see we are not a fluid team, look at the acres of space Bruno had on that goal. That type of pitiful defending has happened all season. If one player runs out of position, it's 50/50 if someone covers him.