31 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

If the upward trajectory persists for the remaining four games and we continue to look like a coherent team with a Caicedo-Gallagher midfield and Cucurella inverting when Gallagher push forward I would be in favour of keeping him over the summer. He's left it awfully late and thus made it unnecessary hard for himself but i've been impressed with how we've looked v Everton, Villa and yesterday so if there are signs of that continuing for the last 4 I would give him another pre-season and the start of next season.

There's a caveat though and that is the whole Gallagher situation. If the owners and director completely undermine the manager and sell him despite all his wishes and how vital he is to the team I don't see the point in keeping Poch. Frankly I don't think he'd see the point either and would likely walk but if Conor's kept and a littlebit of experience is brought in it could potentially work.

 

My worry is we bring experience in for the sake of it.

It won't work if said players were has beens or never weres, case in point United still being sh*t despite having Varane and Casemiro.

1 hour ago, Drogba1 said:

I think that last season was so bad that people have set the bar so low for Poch now.

 

Sky News reported that without Cole Palmer, we would have been 18th on 28 points after the Arsenal game.

 

Has Poch really been a good coach, or have we just added a world class prospect to our attack?

Surely we can't just erase Palmer's goals and assists to assess where we would have been without him. Someone else would have filled in and gotten some of those goals.

It would be like taking away every save Petrovic and Sanchez made and saying ''without Petrovic and Sanchez Chelsea would have lost every single game this season''.

double post

Edited May 3, 20242 yr by yaz

I genuinely can't understand the u-turn some people have made on Poch's position. Am I missing something? Is this just a case of remembering the last game? Because just 3 weeks ago we drew to one of the worst teams in premier league history and just 10 days ago we got battered by Arsenal 5-0. 

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

I am sure this season the fans of Everton and Forest would dispute that. Probably also Man U, Dirty Leeds, Sunderland as well.

If the worst our fans have to put up with over the past 20 years is 2 o3 3 mid table finishes, but have won titles, european cups and had billions pumped into the club - then I dont think, even with the darkest blue tinted glasses, that we can genuinely claim to be "put to the test" in any significant way.

Jim you could name League Two teams that have had it worse in that area.

You're not putting things into perspective. When you're at the top and winning everything, only to sink all the way down is a big thing, especially when your rivals who you once laughed at are doing much better. It's taking candy away from a baby situation, there's a reason Chelsea is being mocked more than clubs who are in relegation, because we're expected to be one of the elite clubs. 

Ruben Amorim confirms he will continue as manager of Sporting Lisbon: 

"I have a contract (until June 2026) and I will continue being the coach of Sporting CP."

Doesn't really confirm anything tbf. 

17 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Ruben Amorim confirms he will continue as manager of Sporting Lisbon: 

"I have a contract (until June 2026) and I will continue being the coach of Sporting CP."

Does a manager ever say "I'll probably leave this summer".

 

2 hours ago, strider6004 said:

For me Cole Palmer looks half the player as the No.10 yet where else can Madueke play?

He's left footed so maybe on the left wing? He'd have to adapt his game of course.

8 hours ago, strider6004 said:

 hopefully those Chelsea fans that hate Poch because of the Spurs connection will be less vocal now.

 

Fatface, Fatface, Fatface, Fatface, Pooch, Poach, Pish, Pash, Sp*** C***

2 hours ago, timetowaste said:

I genuinely can't understand the u-turn some people have made on Poch's position. Am I missing something? Is this just a case of remembering the last game? Because just 3 weeks ago we drew to one of the worst teams in premier league history and just 10 days ago we got battered by Arsenal 5-0. 

You can't seriously be putting the blame of that draw on Poch? 

Outside the freak result at Arsenal we have been good tactically this half of the season but individual mistakes have cost us. 

7 hours ago, JM7 said:

Hansi Flick rumours circulating again. Really? What has he achieved? Doesn’t seem an upgrade at all. 
 

Poch is proven in the PL and able to work with youngsters. I agree with Gary Neville that it will be utter madness to get rid of Poch. 

What has Flick achieved? Regardless of the Bundesliga and Pokal, didn't he win the 2020 Champions League as Bayern Manager. I'm not sure it's the best way to go in a show us your trophies sort of way with Poch.

8 minutes ago, Remodez said:

You can't seriously be putting the blame of that draw on Poch? 

Outside the freak result at Arsenal we have been good tactically this half of the season but individual mistakes have cost us. 

No, we haven't? We've averaged 2 goals conceded per match?

1 hour ago, Nick05 said:

Does a manager ever say "I'll probably leave this summer".

 

De Zerbi

21 minutes ago, Remodez said:

You can't seriously be putting the blame of that draw on Poch? 

Outside the freak result at Arsenal we have been good tactically this half of the season but individual mistakes have cost us. 

Except for the league game against the scouse. Oh and the league cup final when we had them in the palm of our hands. Still pi$$e$ me off that one.

1 hour ago, Gordon Bennett said:

He's left footed so maybe on the left wing? He'd have to adapt his game of course.

I considered that and thought he might have moved Madueke there so Cole could go head to head with Haaland as the top scorer, perhaps this is Poch trying to re-mould Palmer.

57 minutes ago, Remodez said:

You can't seriously be putting the blame of that draw on Poch? 

Outside the freak result at Arsenal we have been good tactically this half of the season but individual mistakes have cost us. 

Sorry but this isn't true, just this half of the season we have:

- Conceded 2+ goals 7 games in a row, 2 of those games against championship teams where we relied on last minute goals to save our embarrassment 

- Drawn against Sheffield United and Burnley, both about to be relegated

- drawn against Brentford who were in free fall at the time

- Lost against the Liverpool reserves and academy in a cup final 

- Lost and conceded 4 goals at home to Wolves

- Lost the first leg of the carabao cup against Middlesbrough 

- Made to look like a league 2 team against Liverpool and Arsenal in the league 

- Got bailed out by Palmer after going 3-2 down at home to a terrible Man Utd team 

Villa away in the FA Cup, Middlesbrough second leg in the carabao cup, Everton, Newcastle, Man City in the FA Cup and Spurs are games I'd say we genuinely played well in. Apart from that it's basically been awful with the occasional win.

Edited May 3, 20242 yr by timetowaste

1 hour ago, Remodez said:

You can't seriously be putting the blame of that draw on Poch? 

Outside the freak result at Arsenal we have been good tactically this half of the season but individual mistakes have cost us. 

They also missed quite a few chances. Whatever people want to say, the truth is that Sheffield was bad. One of the worst teams in the PL history and we looked on par to them.

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

Except for the league game against the scouse. Oh and the league cup final when we had them in the palm of our hands. Still pi$$e$ me off that one.

Nkunku's late chance haunts me the most. 

As brutal as the miss was I half expected Gallagher to miss but if there's anyone not just in our squad but the world i'd back to take a late chance in a final Nkunku would be (would have been) right up there in the list of players I'd bet my house on.

Edited May 3, 20242 yr by Argo

I think the reason so many are more positive now, is that yesterday was the first time this season (for me, anyway) we felt balanced and solid throughout the game. No awful start to either half, no big personal mistakes, little to no sloppy passing. Even against Everton we gave away too many clear cut chances, yesterday was a huge improvement - as was the second half vs Villa. 
Of course, it all means very little if we now collapse against West Ham but there are reasons to have a little bit of optimism at the moment I’d say

4 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

I think that last season was so bad that people have set the bar so low for Poch now.

 

Sky News reported that without Cole Palmer, we would have been 18th on 28 points after the Arsenal game.

 

Has Poch really been a good coach, or have we just added a world class prospect to our attack?

Irrelevant. Palmer has scored a tonne of penalties. And without palmer someone else could have played. 

And most importantly palmer is a player Poch has been managing 

4 hours ago, timetowaste said:

I genuinely can't understand the u-turn some people have made on Poch's position. Am I missing something? Is this just a case of remembering the last game? Because just 3 weeks ago we drew to one of the worst teams in premier league history and just 10 days ago we got battered by Arsenal 5-0. 

It's been happening all season, one or two good results and everyone changes their mind

 

We are always going to win some games just through quality, that doesn't mean we're a good team tactically.

4 hours ago, yaz said:

Surely we can't just erase Palmer's goals and assists to assess where we would have been without him. Someone else would have filled in and gotten some of those goals.

It would be like taking away every save Petrovic and Sanchez made and saying ''without Petrovic and Sanchez Chelsea would have lost every single game this season''.

Yeah we wouldn't be 18th with a different attacker of course

 

But would we be higher than 12th, where we finished last season?

3 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

No, we haven't? We've averaged 2 goals conceded per match?

I never said we were defensively solid. When defenders are making individual mistakes almost every game it's simply not possible.

2 hours ago, timetowaste said:

Sorry but this isn't true, just this half of the season we have:

- Conceded 2+ goals 7 games in a row, 2 of those games against championship teams where we relied on last minute goals to save our embarrassment 

- Drawn against Sheffield United and Burnley, both about to be relegated

- drawn against Brentford who were in free fall at the time

- Lost against the Liverpool reserves and academy in a cup final 

- Lost and conceded 4 goals at home to Wolves

- Lost the first leg of the carabao cup against Middlesbrough 

- Made to look like a league 2 team against Liverpool and Arsenal in the league 

- Got bailed out by Palmer after going 3-2 down at home to a terrible Man Utd team 

Villa away in the FA Cup, Middlesbrough second leg in the carabao cup, Everton, Newcastle, Man City in the FA Cup and Spurs are games I'd say we genuinely played well in. Apart from that it's basically been awful with the occasional win.

I agree Sheff Utd was actually Poch's fault, Burnley was not for reasons I've already mentioned above. 

Brentford again the tactics were fine, second half Diassi has a shocker and gifts them a goal. This is not a tactical problem. Second goal we conceded, again two players with dreadful marking up from a simple routine cross. Enzo having a shocker in the second half also didn't help and we looked better once he came off.

The Pool loss, that's a game we win 9 times out of 10. Countless chances missed. I will concede that his tactics in extra time was cowardly but also somewhat understandable given how gassed all our players were. 

Wolves, two deflected goals. One of which was again individual mistake from Caicedo in the first place letting his man go. We get back into the game and Sterling misses a sitter, Connor misses without keeper even in the net, Jackson does Jackson things.  The last goal was Gusto making a silly tackle to given them a pen. Without individual errors this game ends with 2 goals for Wolves and at least 3 for us. 

Middlesbrough performance was dreadful, nobody turned up so I'm not sure how you can find fault with the tactic when it was never fully implemented in the first place. Again, the goal we conceded was not because of tactics. Caicedo losing his man yet again. We also had Palmer miss an open net alongside misses another good chance. 

There was no magic tactic that was going to turn these defenders into the sort capable of parking the bus or keeping a clean sheet against two teams far better than us. Pool and Arsenal are too direct for that, at best we could have reduce the goals by one or two without individual errors but the result would have been the same regardless. I'm personally not too bothered about these games at this moment in time as we aren't ready to go toe to toe with the yet. It's easier for us grab a win at City or Spurs as they are less direct. 

The tactic was never the problem in the United game. We gave away two goals due to mistakes from Caicedo and one of our CB's, can't remember who.  We weren't bailed out, we ended up deserved winners as we were the better team overall that match.

If you're going to focus on the goals we conceded, half of which I would wager came from individual errors, then I could quite easily point out goals we should have scored which reflect that the tactics were fine we just didn't capitalise. 

Out of all the games you've listed, the only one I fully agree with is Sheff utd. I'm not saying Poch has been faultless, the first half of the season his tactics overall was dreadful. However since the turn of the year, I believe it has gotten better. We have never really deserved to lose this year (middlesbrough and recent aresnal game apart but these were largely down to the players) and I think the fact we've only lost once this year proves that. 

33 minutes ago, Remodez said:

I never said we were defensively solid. When defenders are making individual mistakes almost every game it's simply not possible.

I agree Sheff Utd was actually Poch's fault, Burnley was not for reasons I've already mentioned above. 

Brentford again the tactics were fine, second half Diassi has a shocker and gifts them a goal. This is not a tactical problem. Second goal we conceded, again two players with dreadful marking up from a simple routine cross. Enzo having a shocker in the second half also didn't help and we looked better once he came off.

The Pool loss, that's a game we win 9 times out of 10. Countless chances missed. I will concede that his tactics in extra time was cowardly but also somewhat understandable given how gassed all our players were. 

Wolves, two deflected goals. One of which was again individual mistake from Caicedo in the first place letting his man go. We get back into the game and Sterling misses a sitter, Connor misses without keeper even in the net, Jackson does Jackson things.  The last goal was Gusto making a silly tackle to given them a pen. Without individual errors this game ends with 2 goals for Wolves and at least 3 for us. 

Middlesbrough performance was dreadful, nobody turned up so I'm not sure how you can find fault with the tactic when it was never fully implemented in the first place. Again, the goal we conceded was not because of tactics. Caicedo losing his man yet again. We also had Palmer miss an open net alongside misses another good chance. 

There was no magic tactic that was going to turn these defenders into the sort capable of parking the bus or keeping a clean sheet against two teams far better than us. Pool and Arsenal are too direct for that, at best we could have reduce the goals by one or two without individual errors but the result would have been the same regardless. I'm personally not too bothered about these games at this moment in time as we aren't ready to go toe to toe with the yet. It's easier for us grab a win at City or Spurs as they are less direct. 

The tactic was never the problem in the United game. We gave away two goals due to mistakes from Caicedo and one of our CB's, can't remember who.  We weren't bailed out, we ended up deserved winners as we were the better team overall that match.

If you're going to focus on the goals we conceded, half of which I would wager came from individual errors, then I could quite easily point out goals we should have scored which reflect that the tactics were fine we just didn't capitalise. 

Out of all the games you've listed, the only one I fully agree with is Sheff utd. I'm not saying Poch has been faultless, the first half of the season his tactics overall was dreadful. However since the turn of the year, I believe it has gotten better. We have never really deserved to lose this year (middlesbrough and recent aresnal game apart but these were largely down to the players) and I think the fact we've only lost once this year proves that. 

I can only say that it's admirable how much you're backing Poch. I think the only game I've missed in the second half of the season was Villa last weekend, but almost every other game has been well below par and it's been largely down to Pochettino's tactics.