No, Emenalo is a stooge and spy for the decision-makers on the board.

 

Maybe - or maybe he wanted to prove to everyone he is smarter than Mourinho who demanded major reinforcements in the summer. We know the outcome. 

How much do you think their opening bid for lukaku? and how much do you think that we should make our opening bid for stones?

Well, personally I wouldnt of gone for Stones. Nor would I compare the situation (and value) of Stones at Everton versus Lukaku at Chelsea.

But, if I was a CFC negotiator and had to determine the bid Iwould consider the following

1)He is considered (it seems by many) to be the best young defender in the league

2)He qualifies as homegrown

3)He is a regular starter for them

4)The club doesnt want to sell due to many factors including huge fan backlash and the fact they actually want to create a winning squad for the future.

Or, in other words, we demanded and received 28million for a quality youth prospect who was not home grown, who was not a regular starter for the club and someone who, quite clearly, the club was happy to sell.

So 20 million the next season for a player who actually does tick all those boxes? A bit of a piss take, no? Almost as if the CFC party never actually wanted to get the deal done but wanted to look like they tried.

but then again, I act on the premise that a competent negotiator knows that when a business doesnt want to sell an asset you want, you have to meet their valuation in some shape or form...you dont expect them to meet your valuation unless they are desperate for the money or want rid of the asset or you have some other leverage.

Alone, that common sense principle of negotiations shows why Stones would of gone for more than Lukaku in the context of their situations. Then you can add in what I lie to call "football inflation" (possibley the only industry where the salaries have actually risen more than the cost of living).

Well, personally I wouldnt of gone for Stones. Nor would I compare the situation (and value) of Stones at Everton versus Lukaku at Chelsea.

But, if I was a CFC negotiator and had to determine the bid Iwould consider the following

1)He is considered (it seems by many) to be the best young defender in the league

2)He qualifies as homegrown

3)He is a regular starter for them

4)The club doesnt want to sell due to many factors including huge fan backlash and the fact they actually want to create a winning squad for the future.

Or, in other words, we demanded and received 28million for a quality youth prospect who was not home grown, who was not a regular starter for the club and someone who, quite clearly, the club was happy to sell.

So 20 million the next season for a player who actually does tick all those boxes? A bit of a piss take, no? Almost as if the CFC party never actually wanted to get the deal done but wanted to look like they tried.

but then again, I act on the premise that a competent negotiator knows that when a business doesnt want to sell an asset you want, you have to meet their valuation in some shape or form...you dont expect them to meet your valuation unless they are desperate for the money or want rid of the asset or you have some other leverage.

Alone, that common sense principle of negotiations shows why Stones would of gone for more than Lukaku in the context of their situations. Then you can add in what I lie to call "football inflation" (possibley the only industry where the salaries have actually risen more than the cost of living).

 

 

Lukaku qualifies as home grown. Was already a full international and had scored goals on both his loan spells in our league. Traditionally forwards sell for more money than defenders. Sometimes you have to just hold your hands up and realise we f**ked up on the deal. As for the Stones offer, the huge cash injection from the Premier League TV money meant they just didn't need to sell, we had banked on the player forcing the move. it didn't happen.

On both deals we have to move on.

Although I fear reprisal I will stand and say that I have lost total interest in the team.When I watch the Man U game I had no emotion when JT nearly scored. At one point I wanted Man U to score just to FU the board. Someone mentioned we played well for a while. Which 2 minutes were they? I wonder what the "effort" rate machine says. I know William and Pedro scored 100 against MU..... Hazard looked like a 30 as he wandered around lost. 

 

My DVR didn't record the Watford game. I don't care. Watched the highlights and that was enough. I used to fly home at least 3 times a year and go to New York, Seattle and watch them here in LA. Thats not on the table now. Maybe when the rats leave I will feel better, but I doubt it. With Jose we were The team! The giants! The force! I think only Pep would bring that back but he seems like a short term guy also. I wonder who we will bring in to replace Oscar, Matic, Fabergast, Pedro, Costa, William, Mikel, Hazard and Branislav in the summer! :(

How odd, I'm even more interested for some strange reason, not unlike when a much loved relative, or chum, is out of sorts and you just want to help however you can, even if it's just a positive thought. We're sick, not dead.

Although I fear reprisal I will stand and say that I have lost total interest in the team.When I watch the Man U game I had no emotion when JT nearly scored. At one point I wanted Man U to score just to FU the board. Someone mentioned we played well for a while. Which 2 minutes were they? I wonder what the "effort" rate machine says. I know William and Pedro scored 100 against MU..... Hazard looked like a 30 as he wandered around lost.

My DVR didn't record the Watford game. I don't care. Watched the highlights and that was enough. I used to fly home at least 3 times a year and go to New York, Seattle and watch them here in LA. Thats not on the table now. Maybe when the rats leave I will feel better, but I doubt it. With Jose we were The team! The giants! The force! I think only Pep would bring that back but he seems like a short term guy also. I wonder who we will bring in to replace Oscar, Matic, Fabergast, Pedro, Costa, William, Mikel, Hazard and Branislav in the summer! :(

You care enough to have started a thread today called "Manuel Pellegrini for Chelsea!". The exclamation mark is yours, btw :-)

Wonder were all the posters claiming the squad was never good enough were during the summer transfer window. It was mostly talk about plastic fans and how wanting superstars ever summer isnt realistic etc.

Lets give Hiddink more then a week before we decide this squad isnt better then bottom of the league

Lots of people were raising concerns during pre season

Although I fear reprisal I will stand and say that I have lost total interest in the team.When I watch the Man U game I had no emotion when JT nearly scored. At one point I wanted Man U to score just to FU the board. Someone mentioned we played well for a while. Which 2 minutes were they? I wonder what the "effort" rate machine says. I know William and Pedro scored 100 against MU..... Hazard looked like a 30 as he wandered around lost. 

 

My DVR didn't record the Watford game. I don't care. Watched the highlights and that was enough. I used to fly home at least 3 times a year and go to New York, Seattle and watch them here in LA. Thats not on the table now. Maybe when the rats leave I will feel better, but I doubt it. With Jose we were The team! The giants! The force! I think only Pep would bring that back but he seems like a short term guy also. I wonder who we will bring in to replace Oscar, Matic, Fabergast, Pedro, Costa, William, Mikel, Hazard and Branislav in the summer! :(

 

The board & the owner have made a grievous mistake and I can only concur with what Frank said the other day. Jose should have been given the rest of the season. Even Guus stated initially that he did not know why he was brought in. However, and as bitter a pill as it is to swallow (& shall not be forgotten), it was done & nothing can change it now. I can understand your utter distaste & for some us - even the best on here (Chippy & ors) the decision has caused a schism of some magnitude: so much so that Chippy, for the present at least is done with the club & so it follows, this site. I for one am going to try to get him back on here because the site will be much poorer in his absence. 

 

As for the next permanent - who knows - it's an abject mess: I very much doubt that Simeone or Guardiola would want to come here. If not, who do we get in? 

Wonder were all the posters claiming the squad was never good enough were during the summer transfer window. It was mostly talk about plastic fans and how wanting superstars ever summer isnt realistic etc.

Lets give Hiddink more then a week before we decide this squad isnt better then bottom of the league

 

I think that's a bit revisionist really. First, Stim is right - there were quite a few posters who were constantly airing that view from New Years day when spuds gave us a lesson. There were quite a few posters who could see during the back end of last season that Jose was concerned with the abilities of certain players in the 1st team squad. To his great credit & the 1st team squad, they buckled down & got the job done. And because of that, rightly or wrongly, the board & the owner placed constraints on what money was going to be available because I doubt that anyone, Jose included, could forsee the dramatic collapse in form of certain players & because & quite rightly, the board were also concerned with other matters as well - the new stadium etc.

Wonder were all the posters claiming the squad was never good enough were during the summer transfer window. It was mostly talk about plastic fans and how wanting superstars ever summer isnt realistic etc.

Lets give Hiddink more then a week before we decide this squad isnt better then bottom of the league

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/28175-is-it-too-early-to-be-depressed-that-we-wont-sign-a-starter/ 

 

hindsight is a wonderful thing

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/28175-is-it-too-early-to-be-depressed-that-we-wont-sign-a-starter/

hindsight is a wonderful thing

Did you even read that thread? I mean its pretty much exactly what I said. There are more posters being worried then I remember though, so fair play.

Did you even read that thread? I mean its pretty much exactly what I said. There are more posters being worried then I remember though, so fair play.

I have actually,mainly to see what I posted myself. I posted that I thought we needed more competition for places, this doesn't make me a better or worse fan than anyone else. What the thread though doesn't say though is to why we have underachieved so much this season. Our squad is light in areas but still should be doing better than it is. In years to come we might find out the real truth but for now its all speculation.

I have actually,mainly to see what I posted myself. I posted that I thought we needed more competition for places, this doesn't make me a better or worse fan than anyone else. What the thread though doesn't say though is to why we have underachieved so much this season. Our squad is light in areas but still should be doing better than it is. In years to come we might find out the real truth but for now its all speculation.

Totally agree, theres no reason for such an underperformance. All of our players didnt turn crap over night and its not like José led this group to the title by his sheer brilliance alone.

Good letter from a fan here on WAGNH : http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2015/12/29/10684188/an-open-letter-to-chelsea-fc

Good letter from a fan here on WAGNH : http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2015/12/29/10684188/an-open-letter-to-chelsea-fc

Not sure if anyone has touched on this point yet, but has there been mention or consideration into the official statement which read that it was by mutual consent?

Not sure if anyone has touched on this point yet, but has there been mention or consideration into the official statement which read that it was by mutual consent?

I think everyone knows he wasnt sacked by mutual consent

Good letter from a fan here on WAGNH : http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2015/12/29/10684188/an-open-letter-to-chelsea-fc

 

It's a good letter but I do think the author is downplaying Simeone's achievements considering he's had to face the toughest competition in the world in form of Barcelona and Real Madrid.

 

But I entirely agree with the author that we made a massive mistake sacking Jose and the club will come to regret it one day especially when the search of a manager with a similar calibre of Mourinho isn't found and we begin to go backwards with the types of managers who come here.

 

We had a great chance to change the culture of the club by ensuring the manager ruled the dressing room the way Ferguson had at Manchester United and to a lesser extent Arsene Wenger with Arsenal, but we allowed player power to dictate the dressing room and the club's inability to change this will ensure we'll be close but not closer enough to set the benchmark in world football.

Its hard to stand by a manager if you have to rebuild the squad every 3 years. Ferguson never lost thw dressing room because of his ability to interact with all kinds of player types something Mourinho seems to be lacking. Of course there was the occasional bad apple that had to be dealt with, but the Van Nistelrooys and Beckhams were far apart, Ferguson didnt ship out 2-3 key players each year, that simply wouldnt be sustainable.

Exactly, Jose lacked the ability to keep a squad fresh because he ran them into the ground both physically and mentally.

He needed/needs to think of other ways to get the team working for him without draining them.

Exactly, Jose lacked the ability to keep a squad fresh because he ran them into the ground both physically and mentally.

He needed/needs to think of other ways to get the team working for him without draining them.

The season after José left us first time we were pipped to the title and got to the champions league final, so I don't think the squad was too ran into the ground.

The season after he left inter they came 2nd in the league, won the copa Italia and supercoppa and got to the 1\4 final of champions league. A quick check of the transfers for those seasons and there isn't much change at either club.

Either way, it shows that he loses his touch after a couple of seasons. He can't keep his message fresh to motivate the players.

Really sad, he should have been here for 5-10 years.

Exactly, Jose lacked the ability to keep a squad fresh because he ran them into the ground both physically and mentally.

He needed/needs to think of other ways to get the team working for him without draining them.

 

Do you actually think Chelsea players train harder, to any level of significance, than any other BPL team?  I bet Leicester players train even harder, hence why they are top of the table despite not possessing a single world class talent.  

 

Mind you, the sheer effort some of those Leicester players put in make them appear world class next to some of our mega money players this season.  You think Costa is training any harder than Vardy?  You honestly think Fabregas/Oscar are putting in the same work load as Mahrez in training?  Certainly isn't showing if they are.

 

Funny, to extend what dkw posted, don't forget that squad won back to back titles under Mourinho before finishing second in the league and reaching the CL finals under Avram grant..... Odd, unless we accept that squad was just plain superior to this current squad.  Then again, begs the question of where the blame actually falls.  is it really Mourinho's tactics or perhaps the mentality of the players?

 

If the squad of players are mentally and physically exhausted after one title winning season with Mourinho, than to me its clear the problem lay with the squad and not Mourinho. 

 

A quick look at Willian and Azpiliqueta, among  others, show that it clearly wasn't too much for some players in this very squad.

 

If doing what it take to win the BPL title is too much for the current CFC squad, then why are we blaming Mourinho for the current state of affairs?

 

I don't like Pep Guardiola very much but at Barcelona I can admit that his team had an incredible pressure system when off the ball.  They pressed the whole pitch and dominated club football for many a season.  You think that Pep demanded any less over those years than Mourinho did last year?  

 

  I agree that it is really sad.  We backed a bunch of players of whom many apparently think winning the BPL title is too much work at a cost of our most successful manager ever and one who had a real connection to the club and fans.  Looking to the future with this squad, I'm keeping a few extra tissues on hand.

 

I suspect if you asked an ex-pro like Neville or even Lampard when he hangs them up, they would laugh their asses off at that being a legit excuse for this Chelsea squad.  Then again, maybe Im not being fair in picking two players who made their names known globally, despite not being the most naturally talented, through sheer hard work and effort.  Then again, serial winners and all that.  Maybe those traits just go hand in hand....

 I'd agree that players were run in to the ground to an extent but our biggest problem under Jose was tactical IMO. Especially after the tottenham game it just became way too defensive, too slow and sluggish going forward and nothing seemingly changing from one week to another. It seemed to me we would spend so much of a game without the ball and defending that it becomes inevitable that teams will score at some point add into that our lack of creativity (bar Hazard) going forward and you have the results we've seen this season.

 

Seeing a few posts about players not being good enough and Jose should be given the summer to "rebuild" (assuming that other clubs will just let us pick and choose their players). Well IMO if Jose believed a significant number of players aren't good enough then that goes a long way to justifying his sacking to me. Jose put this team together and had plenty of time and funds to do it, he was trusted to pick the players he wanted and to get rid of any he didn't want (I didn't agree with any of the major departures for what it's worth) This team should not be needing a rebuild one season after winning the league and to rebuild every few years is a completely unsustainable way to run the club.

 

Of course the players deserve some of the blame but too often it seems people are just ignoring Jose's flaws and mistakes and blame this season entirely on the players, I just don't see it that way we were one point above the relegation point for FFS.

Edited December 31, 201510 yr by jack h

Do you actually think Chelsea players train harder, to any level of significance, than any other BPL team? I bet Leicester players train even harder, hence why they are top of the table despite not possessing a single world class talent.

Mind you, the sheer effort some of those Leicester players put in make them appear world class next to some of our mega money players this season. You think Costa is training any harder than Vardy? You honestly think Fabregas/Oscar are putting in the same work load as Mahrez in training? Certainly isn't showing if they are.

Funny, to extend what dkw posted, don't forget that squad won back to back titles under Mourinho before finishing second in the league and reaching the CL finals under Avram grant..... Odd, unless we accept that squad was just plain superior to this current squad. Then again, begs the question of where the blame actually falls. is it really Mourinho's tactics or perhaps the mentality of the players?

If the squad of players are mentally and physically exhausted after one title winning season with Mourinho, than to me its clear the problem lay with the squad and not Mourinho.

A quick look at Willian and Azpiliqueta, among others, show that it clearly wasn't too much for some players in this very squad.

If doing what it take to win the BPL title is too much for the current CFC squad, then why are we blaming Mourinho for the current state of affairs?

I don't like Pep Guardiola very much but at Barcelona I can admit that his team had an incredible pressure system when off the ball. They pressed the whole pitch and dominated club football for many a season. You think that Pep demanded any less over those years than Mourinho did last year?

I agree that it is really sad. We backed a bunch of players of whom many apparently think winning the BPL title is too much work at a cost of our most successful manager ever and one who had a real connection to the club and fans. Looking to the future with this squad, I'm keeping a few extra tissues on hand.

I suspect if you asked an ex-pro like Neville or even Lampard when he hangs them up, they would laugh their asses off at that being a legit excuse for this Chelsea squad. Then again, maybe Im not being fair in picking two players who made their names known globally, despite not being the most naturally talented, through sheer hard work and effort. Then again, serial winners and all that. Maybe those traits just go hand in hand....

I think your point highlights just how much Jose struggles to motivate the players after a couple of seasons. Jose's battle with the players was mentally. He needed to find new ways of motivating them but he didn't. He kept criticising, laying into them. People are criticising Pellegreni as a potential manager but the players look like they enjoy working for him. Numerous people on here said when Jose came back that he didn't seem the same guy, not as cheeky or inspiring. He's got grumpier and has stopped using his charm to inspire his players.

Haven't you ever worked for a manager that is a hard task master? It's draining and you soon come to resent them because they never let you relax. It's 100% all the time.

Edited January 1, 201610 yr by JM7