omg he scored on his debut for Dortmund I knew he was world class all long why did our board loan him out and allow him to develop omg what a waste sack the board.

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I stand by that at the time he was at Chelsea he was one of the worst performing players I have seen play for us yes. 

I'm not really sure why this keeps getting dragged back up in truth. 

He's having a great season for Liverpool, good for him. Doesn't change the fact that he wasn't good enough for Chelsea and only by leaving and playing for a team with lower expectations was he able to play regularly and develop into a better player. 

That was never going to happen if he'd stayed at Chelsea because he wasn't good enough and we did the right thing by selling him. 

Am I going to have to explain this every time he scores a couple of goals? 

It's ludicrous isn't it? I have no idea how he is performing so well when he was so incredibly poor for us. I suppose heavy revisionism regarding his brief stint with us was inevitable, it's scarcely believable that someone could go from looking like a poor man's SWP to having one of the best individual years in the league this season. Got to hand it to him, outstanding improvement.

Based on that we should be looking to get Cuadrado back... you know, just in case.

22 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

It's ludicrous isn't it? I have no idea how he is performing so well when he was so incredibly poor for us. I suppose heavy revisionism regarding his brief stint with us was inevitable, it's scarcely believable that someone could go from looking like a poor man's SWP to having one of the best individual years in the league this season. Got to hand it to him, outstanding improvement.

Based on that we should be looking to get Cuadrado back... you know, just in case.

Show me someone who knew Salah would turn into a twenty goal a season forward and I'll show you a liar. 

When we signed him he was nothing more than a speed merchant that made Aaron Lennon look composed in the final third by comparison. 

As for that Cuadrado line... No need for that. 

according to the stats if they are right salah only made 13 appearances for chelsea, i would hardly call that given a fair chance to prove him self or better himself 

On 03/02/2018 at 11:33, Brutos said:

Scores two in his first match couldn't make it up 

You definitely could and I certainly expected it. He'll have a good run for Dortmund, I just hope this time the next manager we get actually sees the potential in him and not let him go elsewhere, where he'll inevitably succeed as a footballer and we'll have another Salah/KDB situation. 

24 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Show me someone who knew Salah would turn into a twenty goal a season forward and I'll show you a liar. 

When we signed him he was nothing more than a speed merchant that made Aaron Lennon look composed in the final third by comparison. 

As for that Cuadrado line... No need for that. 

It was back in the hilarious old days when we used to sign players [on the surface] because they scored against us. I think Meireles was probably the most egregious example.

Pssh... I lie awake at night sometimes wondering what might have happened if we had kept Cuadrado around to play at right wing-back under Conte. Ditto Ramires.

29 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Show me someone who knew Salah would turn into a twenty goal a season forward and I'll show you a liar. 

When we signed him he was nothing more than a speed merchant that made Aaron Lennon look composed in the final third by comparison. 

As for that Cuadrado line... No need for that. 

Yes, that's true, but you were also saying the opposite of that opinion to an extreme extent. You were saying he's garbage and will never turn into a good player, it actually took you a time to admit that he's a good player despite him playing well consistently for Liverpool. 

He definitely showed glimpses of good quality when he first signed, like I said watch the Stoke away game he was quality. The season after that he was bad but barely played. 

Now don't get me wrong we all have opinions, I for one am very critical of Bakayoko but I'll definitely not a hold a grudge against him if he turned into a fantastic player. However unlike Bakayoko Michy has shown a lot of quality despite not getting much chances, he'll thrive in an attacking system just like Salah did, he can still have a future here it would be wise not to write him off so quickly.

We are incredibly fickle when it comes to managers, I doubt Conte will be here next season but I don't doubt that Michy will be. 

29 minutes ago, luckywerthers said:

according to the stats if they are right salah only made 13 appearances for chelsea, i would hardly call that given a fair chance to prove him self or better himself 

7 starts and the rest sub appearances.

7 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Yes, that's true, but you were also saying the opposite of that opinion to an extreme extent. You were saying he's garbage and will never turn into a good player, it actually took you a time to admit that he's a good player despite him playing well consistently for Liverpool. 

He definitely showed glimpses of good quality when he first signed, like I said watch the Stoke away game he was quality. The season after that he was bad but barely played. 

Now don't get me wrong we all have opinions, I for one am very critical of Bakayoko but I'll definitely not a hold a grudge against him if he turned into a fantastic player. However unlike Bakayoko Michy has shown a lot of quality despite not getting much chances, he'll thrive in an attacking system just like Salah did, he can still have a future here it would be wise not to write him off so quickly.

We are incredibly fickle when it comes to managers, I doubt Conte will be here next season but I don't doubt that Michy will be. 

But he was incredibly sh*t. In my opinion, and mine alone, he was consistently performed as one of the worst players I have ever seen play for Chelsea. 

Never in a million years would I think he'd be anything more than a average player. He's having a great season in terms of goal scoring but this is the first time he's got anywhere near 20 league goals so it's the anomaly rather than the norm for him.  

I said at the start of the season I was of the opinion he wouldn't improve us, I didn't expect Morata to have such an indifferent season and for Pedro to revert back to his dog chasing a tennis ball ways of his first season at Chelsea. 

I also said I didn't think he improved Liverpool and elaborated in another post that I thought Liverpool were investing too frequently on attacking midfielders where they'd probably have benefited more from investment in their defence and a better centre forward. That they went on to drop £75m on a centre back last month kind of proves my point. 

So Salah is having a good season? Is he going to win the league? Nope. We won it twice without him though and will probably will it again before he ever gets close by staying at Liverpool. 

 

I've always been very upfront about my opinions on Chelsea players, I try to avoid sitting on the fence about stuff and I find this revisionist, three years later, "HA! Told you so!" mindset really odd.

14 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Yes, that's true, but you were also saying the opposite of that opinion to an extreme extent. You were saying he's garbage and will never turn into a good player, it actually took you a time to admit that he's a good player despite him playing well consistently for Liverpool. 

He definitely showed glimpses of good quality when he first signed, like I said watch the Stoke away game he was quality. The season after that he was bad but barely played. 

Now don't get me wrong we all have opinions, I for one am very critical of Bakayoko but I'll definitely not a hold a grudge against him if he turned into a fantastic player. However unlike Bakayoko Michy has shown a lot of quality despite not getting much chances, he'll thrive in an attacking system just like Salah did, he can still have a future here it would be wise not to write him off so quickly.

We are incredibly fickle when it comes to managers, I doubt Conte will be here next season but I don't doubt that Michy will be. 

I wonder what the same people who put Salah or KDB down think of Baka, a player who has probably been given 4 or 5 times more chances, a player who hasn't improved and plays a much more important role for the team. Both players, fans and the club was just unfortunate Mourinho was the manager when both players was at the club.

The way Baka has been playing he wouldn't have gone past 5 appearances under Mourinho and been dumped in January, his been given every opportunity and hopefully that works out in the end. Under a different manager other players might have been given more of an opportunity, problem is Mourinho wants immediate success.

2 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

But he was incredibly sh*t. In my opinion, and mine alone, he was consistently performed as one of the worst players I have ever seen play for Chelsea. 

Never in a million years would I think he'd be anything more than a average player. He's having a great season in terms of goal scoring but this is the first time he's got anywhere near 20 league goals so it's the anomaly rather than the norm for him.  

I said at the start of the season I was of the opinion he wouldn't improve us, I didn't expect Morata to have such an indifferent season and for Pedro to revert back to his dog chasing a tennis ball ways of his first season at Chelsea. 

I also said I didn't think he improved Liverpool and elaborated in another post that I thought Liverpool were investing too frequently on attacking midfielders where they'd probably have benefited more from investment in their defence and a better centre forward. That they went on to drop £75m on a centre back last month kind of proves my point. 

So Salah is having a good season? Is he going to win the league? Nope. We won it twice without him though and will probably will it again before he ever gets close by staying at Liverpool. 

 

I've always been very upfront about my opinions on Chelsea players, I try to avoid sitting on the fence about stuff and I find this revisionist, three years later, "HA! Told you so!" mindset really odd.

I really don't think he was that bad at all, certainly not the worst Chelsea player ever.

Even so look at his minutes, he never got a chance to prove himself. And this isn't a "told you so" from me, I've been wrong plenty of times, I thought Hazard would flop for f**k sake, nothing you'll ever say will beat that. 

At the time Salah wasn't going to improve us, but that's at the time, we saw what happened the season after, we see what's happening this season, football is about the long-term more than it's about the short term. If we didn't get Hazard settled 2 years early we probably wouldn't have won the league under Mourinho, we were heavily reliant on him. I wouldn't be so quick to call players flops who rarely ever get the chance to prove themselves, a lot of big clubs were after Michy before we got him so he was in the spotlight, the kid does have talent despite having heavy flaws in some areas. If we do sell him it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he finds a lot of success elsewhere, and that for me is where we are going wrong at this club. 

4 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

I wonder what the same people who put Salah or KDB down think of Baka, a player who has probably been given 4 or 5 times more chances, a player who hasn't improved and plays a much more important role for the team. Both players, fans and the club was just unfortunate Mourinho was the manager when both players was at the club.

The way Baka has been playing he wouldn't have gone past 5 appearances under Mourinho and been dumped in January, his been given every opportunity and hopefully that works out in the end. Under a different manager other players might have been given more of an opportunity, problem is Mourinho wants immediate success.

Absolutely it's very unfortunate. I've even stated that Bakayoko will be the bane of Conte's season, he keeps persisting on playing him and plenty of times we are dropping points and losing in that midfield area. 

When Conte moves on I really doubt the next manager will have plans for Baka, I could actually see him going in the summer. 

Baka has had a few bad performances, sure. But I don't think he's been nearly as a dire as people say. 

5 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

I wonder what the same people who put Salah or KDB down think of Baka, a player who has probably been given 4 or 5 times more chances, a player who hasn't improved and plays a much more important role for the team. Both players, fans and the club was just unfortunate Mourinho was the manager when both players was at the club.

Bakayoko is getting so many chances because who else is there? We shipped Matic off to United, let Chalobah go for peanuts and sent RLC out on loan for the year. Drinkwater after eventually getting himself fit has shown himself to be just as out of form as Bakayoko is so what else is Conte meant to do right now? 

I'm fully expecting us to sign another midfielder in the summer and one of Bakayoko/Drinkwater will be sold or sent on loan. 

2 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I really don't think he was that bad at all, certainly not the worst Chelsea player ever.

Even so look at his minutes, he never got a chance to prove himself. And this isn't a "told you so" from me, I've been wrong plenty of times, I thought Hazard would flop for f**k sake, nothing you'll ever say will beat that. 

At the time Salah wasn't going to improve us, but that's at the time, we saw what happened the season after, we see what's happening this season, football is about the long-term more than it's about the short term. If we didn't get Hazard settled 2 years early we probably wouldn't have won the league under Mourinho, we were heavily reliant on him. I wouldn't be so quick to call players flops who rarely ever get the chance to prove themselves, a lot of big clubs were after Michy before we got him so he was in the spotlight, the kid does have talent despite having heavy flaws in some areas. If we do sell him it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he finds a lot of success elsewhere, and that for me is where we are going wrong at this club. 

What you've got to remember is that Salah was primarily bought to facilitate the sale of Mata to United. He was just a stop gap signing to ensure we had enough cover in the wide positions. I don't think there was ever a long term plan for him and given the low fee we bought him for he was pretty low risk signing. He didn't show the quality needed to justify a place in the squad was moved on a year later and we eventually made a (albeit low) profit by selling him. 

1 minute ago, TomCFC85 said:

Baka has had a few bad performances, sure. But I don't think he's been nearly as a dire as people say. 

Well when @ForeverCarefree says Salah was one of our worst players ever, I say Bakayoko is, weird isn't it 

I think with Bakayoko it's a case of him being played constantly, it's like the Fernando Torres situation, Torres was played and played and played despite being incredibly sh*t, Bakayoko keeps getting played and his best performances are what you call a bad game from Ngolo Kante, the differences in class between those two is far too big. I wouldn't say a few bad performances, he's had a handful of disastrous performances in big games, Arsenal away, Liverpool away, Atletico home, Man City home, then a lot of bad performances to top it off like the Bournemouth game. 

3 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

 

Am I going to have to explain this every time he scores a couple of goals? 

Shorthand it onto your avatar. 

9 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Bakayoko is getting so many chances because who else is there? We shipped Matic off to United, let Chalobah go for peanuts and sent RLC out on loan for the year. Drinkwater after eventually getting himself fit has shown himself to be just as out of form as Bakayoko is so what else is Conte meant to do right now? 

I'm fully expecting us to sign another midfielder in the summer and one of Bakayoko/Drinkwater will be sold or sent on loan. 

What you've got to remember is that Salah was primarily bought to facilitate the sale of Mata to United. He was just a stop gap signing to ensure we had enough cover in the wide positions. I don't think there was ever a long term plan for him and given the low fee we bought him for he was pretty low risk signing. He didn't show the quality needed to justify a place in the squad was moved on a year later and we eventually made a (albeit low) profit by selling him. 

5

5

I agree & disagree, Salah was a known "wonderkid" as to put it. he even had a very good game against us and we signed him for an absolute bargain. I for one expected more from him but he never got the chance. In his first 6 months I had no complaints from him, he rarely played but when he did he was pretty good, the season after that he was terrible. But he was reserved for cup games only, obviously, that had a big impact on his confidence, Jose definitely didn't rate him because he rarely even made the bench at times. 

So where you think the club was in the right for selling Salah, I think they were wrong/right, I can see both sides. However, it's not hindsight to say that Salah never got his chance, even when he was performing reasonably well. We treat a lot of players like this under Mourinho and it's similar under Conte although not as bad, that is bound to backfire on us and it has twice. I'm just hoping we don't do it again with Michy, a player who hasn't gotten the chance he deserves. 

Edited February 5, 20188 yr by Slojo

The only mistake we made with Salah, was not putting in a buy back clause in his roma contract, considering he looked like he had improved with the Florentine loan.

He didn't get much of a chance with us, but when he did, he was pretty poor. He was weak on the ball, and had a poor end product. We also had 5 better players ahead of him aswell. 

Hopefully we won't make the mistake with buy back clauses again, because although we made about £20m on Lukaku, Kdb, and Salah, we could really do with all 3 in the squad now, which would cost us 20 times that now. 

Whether you rated them at the time or not, it's a monumental error that we weren't able realise the potential of 3 top players. Letting 1 slip through the net is acceptable, but 3 in a short space of time is criminal. 

8 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I stand by that at the time he was at Chelsea he was one of the worst performing players I have seen play for us yes. 

I'm not really sure why this keeps getting dragged back up in truth. 

He's having a great season for Liverpool, good for him. Doesn't change the fact that he wasn't good enough for Chelsea and only by leaving and playing for a team with lower expectations was he able to play regularly and develop into a better player. 

That was never going to happen if he'd stayed at Chelsea because he wasn't good enough and we did the right thing by selling him. 

Am I going to have to explain this every time he scores a couple of goals? 

Well, without trying to cause a stir, you are slightly backtracking. You are making it sound now and in posts further on from the one you made here that no one knew he was going to be that good and also that leaving helped him develop into a better player which is fair enough. However that is not what I am disputing. Your first initial comment was that he would not improve us now and that Liverpool are not better with him. That was in October and I thought that was a very harsh comment. I challenged you about that opinion a month later as he still kept scoring.

You stated you stand by those comments and that "I don't think he'd get into our team, even now. He's in a purple patch of form right now but I would be very surprised if he maintained that for much longer". So three months passed by that he is still scoring and the top scorer and surely you would agree he would get in our team now. You stood by those comments continuously regarding that he has not improved Liverpool, nor that would he get in our team and that you would be very surprised if he continued with his form.

Salah did not get enough playing time to state he was the worst performing players. FWIW, thought he showed promise and just needed a couple of loans.

16 hours ago, big blue said:

The only mistake we made with Salah, was not putting in a buy back clause in his roma contract, considering he looked like he had improved with the Florentine loan.

He didn't get much of a chance with us, but when he did, he was pretty poor. He was weak on the ball, and had a poor end product. We also had 5 better players ahead of him aswell. 

Hopefully we won't make the mistake with buy back clauses again, because although we made about £20m on Lukaku, Kdb, and Salah, we could really do with all 3 in the squad now, which would cost us 20 times that now. 

Whether you rated them at the time or not, it's a monumental error that we weren't able realise the potential of 3 top players. Letting 1 slip through the net is acceptable, but 3 in a short space of time is criminal. 

Lukaku ain't all that

and Michy scores again...

Hopefully he keeps scoring - the higher his value at the end of the season the more leverage we'll have if Dortmund want to sign him permanently.

Why would you sell him some fans still haven't learned anything from Kdb Salah lukaku yet

Just now, Brutos said:

Why would you sell him some fans still haven't learned anything from Kdb Salah lukaku yet

Pulisic, Weigl, Reus (if he can stay fit/rediscover his form)....

Surprised he hasn't struck a hat trick yet, when it rains, it pours.