2 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Superb today. Put paid to the Kante can't play the anchor role rubbish again, just as he does every time he plays there. He did it with aplomb against a team who are very organised and press well. 

Shut down every chance Burnley had to counter and his distribution was great. Some of his cross field passing in the 40m/h winds was a joy to watch. 

Between he and Mount for MoM.

He hasn't played there for us in years. Which makes his performance today all the more surprising. 

Clbassic Kante was witnessed today. Proved me and a whole lot of us wrong, done the business protecting the back line while the FBs attacked. Class performance hope to see many more moving forward. 

No doubt a great player regardless and I have been calling him to be sold as he just doesn't suit our system (not his fault), today he was excellent!

9 hours ago, bisright1 said:

He hasn't played there for us in years. Which makes his performance today all the more surprising. 

Last time he played there was in July when we beat Watford 3-0. He anchored Barkley and Mount and we played the best football we played after lockdown.

This is just about the best we have played since then. I won't say that was just down to Kante, but the role he played helped.

I find it staggering that there is still any debate about who should play on front of our bank four. I also find it baffling that so many managers have failed to recognise that for so long. Hopefully Lampard has finally had his eyes opened to why the team performs better with Kante there (any why opta stats mean bugger all). 

Jorginho simply doesn't  have the right attributes to play there, at least not in the English league. I can see why he can do well in the Italian league (though never for a top side who pushes for major trophies) but the way English teams play leave him as a luxury player for large periods of games. 

What Kante did against Burnley, Jorginho has been doing for 2 seasons now... Our midfield wasn't the problem, but as soon as we changed the keeper and T.Silva came we all notice the difference :)

Edited November 1, 20205 yr by Gol15

8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

What Kante did against Burnley, Jorginho has been doing for 2 seasons now... 

🤣

49 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

What Kante did against Burnley, Jorginho has been doing for 2 seasons now... Our midfield wasn't the problem, but as soon as we changed the keeper and T.Silva came we all notice the difference 🙂

Respectfully disagree. Kante was very good yesterday - covers much more ground and removes that risk. Jorginho just doesn’t have that engine or physicality to address the risk. 
I also think 4-3-3 removed some of the gaps we have seen between def, mid and att, and allowed us to move the ball thru midfield quicker vs sideways across the back. 

Was gobsmacked at his performance yesterday wow, towards the end he played a stepover and through ball to Werner just outside there box now that Jorgi can’t do haha ! Majestic yesterday happy to eat humble pie if he keeps that up, I thought he was done but wow that was so encouraging. One things for sure now that defence doesn’t change and neither does this new Mount-Kante-Havertz midfield because it’s clicked. Werner - Giroud - Ziyech might be worth a shot if Pulisic is injured. But Werner given freedom to wander inside because he has mount covering his side. 

6 hours ago, loz said:

I find it staggering that there is still any debate about who should play on front of our bank four. I also find it baffling that so many managers have failed to recognise that for so long. Hopefully Lampard has finally had his eyes opened to why the team performs better with Kante there (any why opta stats mean bugger all). 

Jorginho simply doesn't  have the right attributes to play there, at least not in the English league. I can see why he can do well in the Italian league (though never for a top side who pushes for major trophies) but the way English teams play leave him as a luxury player for large periods of games. 

Personally think Jorginho has right attributes to play either where Mount or Kai did rather than Kante. 

Hopefully we stick with Kante there and Gilmour shows himself a good second option. If not then probably Reece James there.

2 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

Respectfully disagree. Kante was very good yesterday - covers much more ground and removes that risk. Jorginho just doesn’t have that engine or physicality to address the risk. 
I also think 4-3-3 removed some of the gaps we have seen between def, mid and att, and allowed us to move the ball thru midfield quicker vs sideways across the back. 

I agree that Kante was good. I don't agree that Jorginho isn't good and I think it's silly to undermine a player just because of 1 game where someone else did good, specially since it was really against one of the worst teams in the league.

After all both players played when we didn't concede a single goal against Palace, Man Utd, Sevilla and Krasnodar. Like it was said last season - the problem really isn't in our midfield, it never was. The additions of Mendy, Chilwell and T.Silva are a proof of that now that we are not conceding as many goals.

Also worth mentioning is that we had tons of games in the recent seasons where we controlled the game just like yesterday, but we couldn't really score and then a mistake happened and we were chasing to salvage something from the game... That didn't happen yesterday not only because of our new defensive players but because of another new player - Ziyech scored in the first half and after that it was all over, last season we didn't have him so if we had gone to the half time 0:0 maybe some nerves would have started to work... With having 79% possession after the first 30minutes of the game we scored only once but that was enough, Burnley really had no chance against us yesterday anyway, I think that if Kovacic or Jorginho had played instead of Kante the result would have been the same, so no need to write off a player that has been doing what Kante did yesterday for 2 seasons straight.

6 hours ago, Gol15 said:

What Kante did against Burnley, Jorginho has been doing for 2 seasons now... Our midfield wasn't the problem, but as soon as we changed the keeper and T.Silva came we all notice the difference 🙂

I'd encourage you to watch the game again. Perhaps with a focus on when we didn't have the ball. Kante's mobility stopped any sniff of a counter that Burnley had all game. Jorginho certainly hasn't been doing that for two seasons.

4 hours ago, I Am Gay 4 Diegod said:

Was gobsmacked at his performance yesterday wow, towards the end he played a stepover and through ball to Werner just outside there box now that Jorgi can’t do haha ! Majestic yesterday happy to eat humble pie if he keeps that up, I thought he was done but wow that was so encouraging. One things for sure now that defence doesn’t change and neither does this new Mount-Kante-Havertz midfield because it’s clicked. Werner - Giroud - Ziyech might be worth a shot if Pulisic is injured. But Werner given freedom to wander inside because he has mount covering his side. 

He also pulled off a saucy back heel on the half volley to take out 2 players, and set us on a break away against Krasnodar. 

 

5 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

I'd encourage you to watch the game again. Perhaps with a focus on when we didn't have the ball. Kante's mobility stopped any sniff of a counter that Burnley had all game. Jorginho certainly hasn't been doing that for two seasons.

My comment was a reaction to the one just above it in which it's once again implied that Jorginho can't play in England. That take is simply false and maybe even disgraceful, a very sad narrative to have for a period of 3 seasons, that's a pretty long time of being clueless if you ask me.

Anyway Kante did very well and he's currently the best in our team when it comes down to most tackles made, most duels won, most recoveries made and most interceptions made.

But this most recent game where Kante did well doesn't change the fact that in the past 2 seasons Jorginho has been either the best or at least top 2-5 when it came down to the following:
most passes into the final third,
most ball recoveries made,
most tackles made (for 2 seasons in a row Jorginho was the 2nd best, only Dave had made more tackles than Jorginho),
best tackle success rate out of all Chelsea midfielders (1 season),
most interceptions made,
most though balls made,
most progressive passes made... Also probably most accurate passes made too but I haven't checked that stat.

Jorginho has been one of our more consistent players for 2 seasons and he started the 3rd decently.
Sure Sarri built the team around him in the first season but he was still doing his role last season and even if he has played 185 minutes less than Kante in the PL this season, he has only 4 tackles less than Kante.

This narrative that we conceded goals because our midfield was a problem was false. After we upgraded our backline we stopped conceding goals, the midfield stayed the same basically...

10 hours ago, Gol15 said:

What Kante did against Burnley, Jorginho has been doing for 2 seasons now... Our midfield wasn't the problem, but as soon as we changed the keeper and T.Silva came we all notice the difference 🙂

No, he hasn't.

There's one specific thing that Jorginho does very poorly and that is move the ball quickly. Yes, he hits all the right numbers on paper but he does so at a speed where his actions are almost inconsequential. Something that Kante and Mount did much better last game was turning with the ball while in possession in a single touch - something that Jorginho either doesn't do or takes 2-3 touches to do.

 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

No, he hasn't.

There's one specific thing that Jorginho does very poorly and that is move the ball quickly. Yes, he hits all the right numbers on paper but he does so at a speed where his actions are almost inconsequential. Something that Kante and Mount did much better last game was turning with the ball while in possession in a single touch - something that Jorginho either doesn't do or takes 2-3 touches to do.

 

 

 

So you're saying that Kante is a better passer than Jorginho?

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

 

So you're saying that Kante is a better passer than Jorginho?

He's saying Kante is the more effective passer than Jorginho.

4 hours ago, Deino said:

He's saying Kante is the more effective passer than Jorginho.

And a quicker passer.

4 hours ago, Deino said:

He's saying Kante is the more effective passer than Jorginho.

I wonder what does that mean practically...

Kante played incredibly well against Burnley and I don't want to take anything away from his performance by saying it was only Burnley etc. as majority of teams in the league will set up in similar fashion to us allowing Kante time on the ball. My concern are the tactics which Arsenal used against United yesterday, they pressed high against Fred & Mctominay who were unable to break the press which made Fernandes drop deep which as a result created a disconnect with their attack.

Against better pressing teams we will struggle with Kante in the Lone CDM role, I would prefer a midfield of Kante, Jorginho, Kova/Mount against better opposition.

1 hour ago, Imran_CFC said:

Kante played incredibly well against Burnley and I don't want to take anything away from his performance by saying it was only Burnley etc. as majority of teams in the league will set up in similar fashion to us allowing Kante time on the ball. My concern are the tactics which Arsenal used against United yesterday, they pressed high against Fred & Mctominay who were unable to break the press which made Fernandes drop deep which as a result created a disconnect with their attack.

Against better pressing teams we will struggle with Kante in the Lone CDM role, I would prefer a midfield of Kante, Jorginho, Kova/Mount against better opposition.

A midfield three of Kante, Jorginho and Kova is too damn defensive, theres no creativity in it.

8 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

A midfield three of Kante, Jorginho and Kova is too damn defensive, theres no creativity in it.

Against teams who press us high we don't need as much creativity from the midfield because our front 3 should be able to exploit pockets of space left behind by the opposition. Like I said against majority of teams who set up with a low block Kante works as the lone CDM but against teams who tend to press high we need a midfield which is able to play through the press in my view a midfield 3 of Jorginho, Kante and Kova can counter that.

Those 3 were the mainstays of our Central Midfield and we finished 4th with a much inferior squad last season so I wouldn't be too harsh on them, I myself have criticised that midfield for lacking creativity but we've invested heavily in our attack and our fullbacks should also be able to help in creating opportunities.

21 hours ago, Gol15 said:

 

So you're saying that Kante is a better passer than Jorginho?

No, that doesn't make any sense.

I specifically said that Kante turns with the ball faster than Jorginho. A team generally has 5-7 seconds to transition from defense to attack so every touch is crucial. Watch some of Jorginho's good games from the last run.

Jorginho's unwillingness to do this quickly negates his own superior passing ability because it means he has to pass through a more organised defense. Even if Jorginho completes the pass it is to a player who has less space to work with than if the pass is played sooner.

3 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

No, that doesn't make any sense.

I specifically said that Kante turns with the ball faster than Jorginho. A team generally has 5-7 seconds to transition from defense to attack so every touch is crucial. Watch some of Jorginho's good games from the last run.

Jorginho's unwillingness to do this quickly negates his own superior passing ability because it means he has to pass through a more organised defense. Even if Jorginho completes the pass it is to a player who has less space to work with than if the pass is played sooner.

It's true but not always, first time passes up to Tammy/Werner and most recently to Chilwell and Havertz show a good team movement and nice openings for a break... 

I absolutely love him in the role against Burnley.  To me he is the closest thing to Maka, well since, Maka.  Granted Maka was a better passer and more positionally aware, but Kante's engine and ability to break up play is still the best in world football.

It was like we took the square peg out the round hole and put it back where it belongs.