Maurizio Sarri Officially Appointed

[Slojo]

40 minutes ago, Argo said:

I have no doubt that game will be a lot closer.

For all the faults this squad have one thing you can't take away from them is they almost always show up and deliver when a trophy is within touching distance.

That's not set in stone at the moment I'm afraid. 

Who would have ever predicted that this side would lose by such large margins such as 6-0 and 4-0 ? The last time I saw us this open and lacking in grit was under AVB after that horrific Arsenal game at the Bridge, and even then we managed to score 3 goals and it was a free for all open contest. Right now we are lacking goals and we are open at the back, at this moment in time I'm not expecting anything but a spanking if I'm being honest. 

I'll have to see how we do inbetween then, because it appears to me that we've lost our confidence. 

[just]

1 minute ago, venom2011 said:

 

A regista doesn't necessarily need pace or dribbling skills. And even being a lightweight he is still contributing defensively and is not far off Fernandinho statistically.

What is he you ask? A regista, more than any other position on the field, is nothing without a functioning team. If the players around him are static, he can't pass. If they struggle to pass the ball or create space for him to operate, he can't receive the ball. I have watched every match that Jorginho has played, with an intense focus on him specifically because I'm fascinated by his position on the field. And I have almost never thought he's had bad game. Same with Rudiger. Azpi and Kante. Like the rest, his effect had been increasingly marginalised because of the performance of the team as a whole.

You see simple passes over short distances. I see someone who thinks as quick as Fabregas when he receives the ball. I see someone who has covered more ground than literally every other player in the league, to get into good receiving positions and attempt to keep our play as fluid as possible. And I've seen someone who hasn't yet come to terms with the league and has been suffering a bit lately because of the added pressure.

When/if we see the team functioning how Sarri wants, I think the average fan will begin to appreciate his skillset a bit more.

 

Do you seriously believe for a moment that he has the same defensive presence and influence as Fernandinho? 

And your argument about it being down to other players not creating the space for him to operate is laughable IMO. Extending that reasoning you could make the very same excuse for Barkley, Kovacic, or any player who turns over possession easily when closed down.

You see someone who moves the ball as quickly as Fabregas. Fair enough. But do you see Jorginho do it with same vision, creativity and end result? Do you see him playing the long range passes that Fabregas could hit? I'm guessing the answer is no. Personally I think David Luiz is a more creative and versatile passer of the ball than Jorginho. 

I don't know. Perhaps the EPL isn't ready for a regista yet. Someone whose sole task is to pass the ball short, simple and often.

At least not one with as limited a skill set as Jorginho seems to have.

[Argo]

18 minutes ago, Slojo said:

That's not set in stone at the moment I'm afraid. 

Who would have ever predicted that this side would lose by such large margins such as 6-0 and 4-0 ? The last time I saw us this open and lacking in grit was under AVB after that horrific Arsenal game at the Bridge, and even then we managed to score 3 goals and it was a free for all open contest. Right now we are lacking goals and we are open at the back, at this moment in time I'm not expecting anything but a spanking if I'm being honest. 

I'll have to see how we do inbetween then, because it appears to me that we've lost our confidence. 

The Spurs games could be argued as a case in point, the league game we were battered and looked like we didn't want to be there, in the Semi we were up for it and totally outplayed them over two legs despite needing pens to ultimately get through.

Don't get me wrong we will very much be underdogs and rightly so, but the whole world expect us to get battered, a reaction will be needed (after the last game against them) and there's a trophy to play for, that combination usually gets these guys on their A game.

[venom2011]

Do you seriously believe for a moment that he has the same defensive presence and influence as Fernandinho? 
And your argument about it being down to other players not creating the space for him to operate is laughable IMO. Extending that reasoning you could make the very same excuse for Barkley, Kovacic, or any player who turns over possession easily when closed down.
You see someone who moves the ball as quickly as Fabregas. Fair enough. But do you see Jorginho do it with same vision, creativity and end result? Do you see him playing the long range passes that Fabregas could hit? I'm guessing the answer is no. Personally I think David Luiz is a more creative and versatile passer of the ball than Jorginho. 
I don't know. Perhaps the EPL isn't ready for a regista yet. Someone whose sole task is to pass the ball short, simple and often.
At least not one with as limited a skill set as Jorginho seems to have.

You sure are making strange inferences from my words. No I don't think he has the same defensive presence as Fernandinho and nowhere did I say that. And seeing as your first sentence makes no sense, the follow-up is nonsensical as well.

Anyway, I think we can all agree Jorginho has been targeted specifically in recent months - as a way for opponents to stifle our play. And yet he still has a +90% pass rate. Which is strange for a player who, as you say, 'turns over possession easily when closed down'.

And again I'm not comparing Jorginho to Fabregas. And it would be pointless anyway as they don't naturally play in the same position.

You think Luiz is a more creative and versatile passer than Jorginho? Well that's painfully obvious so well done on taking that leap. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Unless you are saying Luiz should be playing the regista position which is ridiculous.

Look, at the end of the day you'll 'see' whatever it is you want to see. Some people will see someone like Andres Iniesta for the absolute magician he was and some people will see an advanced midfielder who hardly scored or assisted at all...

[Scott Harris]

17 hours ago, Ewell CFC said:

We are playing poorly at the moment, no question about that, and not particularly easy on the eye with it, but do you really not give a monkeys about playing style and boring football as long as there’s trophys to show for it?

Is every game just a stepping stone towards silverware in May?

When Chelsea win stuff do you see this as a personal triumph?

But I don't think we played boring football when we won the trophies we won. Sometimes we have played more defensive and won things and sometimes we have played attacking football and won things, but none of those times did I find it boring. What we are playing now is boring football.

[Scott Harris]

10 hours ago, Nibs said:

Ah, Conte. A coach who had more than one way of playing football. I remember those days............................

I never wanted Conte sacked, but I also said he was stupid in the way he approached and dealt with certain situations that didn't go his way last season. I understand that he was frustrated to not get what he wanted, and he was right to be frustrated, just like the fans were, but if he handled things better, I think he would still be our manager today. He was blamed for the whole Costa situation, which wasn't his fault at all, how he dealt with Costa was a mistake, but the situation that arose was fully down to Costa. I also thought saying the players he had weren't good enough was a stupid move too. He was supposed to motivate them, not tell the media that they weren't good enough. This was happening during most pre match press conferences and it got very boring. His issue was with the Chelsea board, he should have taken his concerns to them and them only, shouting off about it in the media every week was a terrible idea.

I think this is one of the biggest problems with the club, there are always people pointing fingers and saying it's your fault instead of collectively taking the blame. The board, the players, the manager, they all pass the blame onto somebody else and it needs to stop.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Scott Harris

[dustbin719]

3 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

I never wanted Conte sacked, but I also said he was stupid in the way he approached and dealt with certain situations that didn't go his way last season. I understand that he was frustrated to not get what he wanted, and he was right to be frustrated, just like the fans were, but if he handled things better, I think he would still be our manager today. He was blamed for the whole Costa situation, which wasn't his fault at all, how he dealt with Costa was a mistake, but the situation that arose was fully down to Costa. I also thought saying the players he had weren't good enough was a stupid move too. He was supposed to motivate them, not tell the media that they weren't good enough. This was happening during most pre match press conferences and it got very boring. His issue was with the Chelsea board, he should have taken his concerns to them and them only, shouting off about it in the media every week was a terrible idea.

I think this is one of the biggest problems with the club, there are always people pointing fingers and saying it's your fault instead of collectively taking the blame. The board, the players, the manager, they all pass the blame onto somebody else and it needs to stop.

Wholeheartedly agree with this. At the end of the day, who does the buck stop with? Sarri? Marina? The Board? Emanalo from 2 years ago? Peter Kenyon? Who is ultimately responsible for the results on the pitch? 

Well, it can't be Marina, because she only negotiates contracts and transfer fees.

It can't be the manager, because he doesn't have a say in transfers and the players aren't following instructions

It can't be the board, because they're only interested in looking after the finances. 

It can't be the players because they're only the soldiers, not the general

A few bad results, the manager says a few things wrong to the press, the players want to change the manager and down tools, the manager gets sacked and made the scapegoat. Lather, rinse, repeat.

We don't need a change in football philosophy. We need a change in organizational culture. 

Until we can empower a manager, or a DOF, to stamp out player power in this club, even if we sack Sarri today, we'll be seeing the same thing in 12 months time. 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by dustbin719

[Slojo]

4 hours ago, Argo said:

The Spurs games could be argued as a case in point, the league game we were battered and looked like we didn't want to be there, in the Semi we were up for it and totally outplayed them over two legs despite needing pens to ultimately get through.

Don't get me wrong we will very much be underdogs and rightly so, but the whole world expect us to get battered, a reaction will be needed (after the last game against them) and there's a trophy to play for, that combination usually gets these guys on their A game.

They also had 3 of their best players missing compared to the league game when they had Ali, Kane and Son. 

That was a major factor, let's not kid ourselves here. 

[Amputechture]

@just

Just curious as to whether you felt the same about Jorginho early on this season before we faced Spurs? The entire team have had a huge dip in form ever since and Jorginho was getting nothing but praise on here prior to that defeat if memory serves.

[just]

2 hours ago, Amputechture said:

@just

Just curious as to whether you felt the same about Jorginho early on this season before we faced Spurs? The entire team have had a huge dip in form ever since and Jorginho was getting nothing but praise on here prior to that defeat if memory serves.

 Ross Barkley also looked good at the beginning. So did Bakayoko.

Look there is no doubt opponents have worked out Jorginho and close him down early. Well fair play to them. That's what they are supposed to do. So he needs to adapt, he needs to overcome it. But he isn't and I believe that's because he doesn't have the physical attributes; no pace, no power, no dribbling ability. So now he has become a liability rather than an asset and that has been the case for a long time IMO.

There is no way he should be playing every week based on his current form. If Sarri does go, I think Jorginho would be out the door soon after him. No other manager would cut him the slack Sarri does.

[chi blue]

3 hours ago, Amputechture said:

@just

Just curious as to whether you felt the same about Jorginho early on this season before we faced Spurs? The entire team have had a huge dip in form ever since and Jorginho was getting nothing but praise on here prior to that defeat if memory serves.

yes team has had a huge dip in form and confidence, but when the manager says he can't motivate team and picks wrong team and tactics then there is only one outcome, and quite rightly so. The team is filled with some right tossers we all know that, who couldn't give a sh*t, and hopefully good ridance to the majority come the summer, but its comment he can't motivate them and the wrong team and tactics that I can't also get my head round.

[Kentonio]

5 minutes ago, chi blue said:

yes team has had a huge dip in form and confidence, but when the manager says he can't motivate team and picks wrong team and tactics then there is only one outcome, and quite rightly so. The team is filled with some right tossers we all know that, who couldn't give a sh*t, and hopefully good ridance to the majority come the summer, but its comment he can't motivate them and the wrong team and tactics that I can't also get my head round.

Why are you insisting that he played the wrong team and tactics? Who is to say if the players didn't actually do their fecking jobs, that we couldn't have won? We beat them earlier in the season didn't we?

[drjonesy1994]

14 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

Why are you insisting that he played the wrong team and tactics?

Probably because we lost 6-0.

[Kentonio]

Just now, drjonesy1994 said:

Probably because we lost 6-0.

Yet the same tactics and virtually the same team beat City earlier in the season.

[drjonesy1994]

2 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

Yet the same tactics and virtually the same team beat City earlier in the season.

Was it the same though? In the home game we played a lot deeper and allowed City to have a lot of the ball, and we scored 1 goal from a counter attack and one goal from set pieces. Whereas in the away game we tried to match them possession wise and was playing further up the pitch and got picked off for it. 

[just]

8 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

Yet the same tactics and virtually the same team beat City earlier in the season.

So we should have used Hazard as a false 9?

[Kentonio]

1 minute ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Was it the same though? In the home game we played a lot deeper and allowed City to have a lot of the ball, and we scored 1 goal from a counter attack and one goal from set pieces. Whereas in the away game we tried to match them possession wise and was playing further up the pitch and got picked off for it. 

It wasn't a counter attack, that was just what Pep described it as because he's a bad loser. We didn't just sit back and counter that game, we were constantly building from the back and trying to play our own football.

[Guest Sindre]

10 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

It wasn't a counter attack, that was just what Pep described it as because he's a bad loser. We didn't just sit back and counter that game, we were constantly building from the back and trying to play our own football.

Not the case.
At home against City we had one player with average position past our own halfway line which was Eden Hazard.
On sunday we had five players far past the halfway line in terms of average position.

 

[coco]

We do push forward way too much, we had players all over the pitch on Sunday.

The 2nd half at Bournemouth and the 1st half at Etihad. conceded 8 scored zero. two of the worst halves of football weve witnessed us play.

The problem seems to be because we now have so much possession, much of the time we are in advanced areas of the pitch. The space left between our players opens up, and if we lose the ball we're up the creek with no paddle. Switching from attack to defence is a MAJOR issue.

Bournemouth knew we would push high that 2nd half, Howe played us a treat, he knew we leave space, he knows our defence isnt suited to defending the center circle. 

City just had to turn up, with the space we guarantee between our players, it was child's play for them.

I don't think it is any coincidence that these two games came in a period of the season where our goals completely dried up.

[chi blue]

1 hour ago, Kentonio said:

Why are you insisting that he played the wrong team and tactics? Who is to say if the players didn't actually do their fecking jobs, that we couldn't have won? We beat them earlier in the season didn't we?

Yes and we got stuffed at spurs, Arsenal, Bournemouth and now city, and lost at home to Leicester and Wolves away anyone can see Jorginiho shouldn't be playing in that position and Kante back to his proper role, we won't mention the false 9 bollox why doesn't the guy just change it, it was found out v spurs, in November and countless games since. I agree players should do their job and when we go a goal down the team just wilts, but his total stubbornness or ignorance I'm not sure which will cost him his job and us a wasted season. As for beating city at home, they were minus Aguero and we were lucky, out played first half, then got lucky right on halftime, then scored again towards end, every dog has its day and that was sarri's day. To be honest I would love him to prove me wrong, but it's been 3 months since spurs game and nothing has changed, in fact getting slaughtered is becoming the normal. One positive it's making me feel young again, it's like the early 80's again

[wallosh]

Not a f**king chance. And even if he did they would be immeasurably worse for his non-presence.  For physical presence alone Fernandinho eats him alive. I also think he is a more creative passer of the ball than Jorginho.
Mr J's performances have generally been as disappointing as Bakayoko's were. Hey, he's doing well in Italy isn't he?

It's ridiculous to even have the thought that Jorginho will start in that City team. I don't Pep really wanted. It's simply rumours because even Gundogan who is a much all-round better player than Jorginho can't even even spends more time on the bench than on the field at City.

[wallosh]

It's difficult to have a considerable midfield presence when the number 1 tactic against your team is to mark you out of the game. He is not a forward where you are free to move around to counter being marked. Considering everything he's had an ok start. Not great, not terrible. I think he would be a boss in that City team.

It's good to dream[emoji16][emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]

[Argo]

32 minutes ago, chi blue said:

Yes and we got stuffed at spurs, Arsenal, Bournemouth and now city, and lost at home to Leicester and Wolves away anyone can see Jorginiho shouldn't be playing in that position and Kante back to his proper role, we won't mention the false 9 bollox why doesn't the guy just change it, it was found out v spurs, in November and countless games since. I agree players should do their job and when we go a goal down the team just wilts, but his total stubbornness or ignorance I'm not sure which will cost him his job and us a wasted season. As for beating city at home, they were minus Aguero and we were lucky, out played first half, then got lucky right on halftime, then scored again towards end, every dog has its day and that was sarri's day. To be honest I would love him to prove me wrong, but it's been 3 months since spurs game and nothing has changed, in fact getting slaughtered is becoming the normal. One positive it's making me feel young again, it's like the early 80's again

What is Kante's proper position ? Because it certainly isn't a sitting DM.

[coco]

12 minutes ago, Argo said:

What is Kante's proper position ? Because it certainly isn't a sitting DM.

You can't tie him down to a position, he's all over the place, starting position means nothing to him.

People think he's moved position because we have the ball more, so were further up the pitch most of the time now.

[Guest Sindre]

12 minutes ago, coco said:

You can't tie him down to a position, he's all over the place, starting position means nothing to him.

People think he's moved position because we have the ball more, so were further up the pitch most of the time now.

Yet his heatmap v City looked more similar to Kyle Walker’s than that of a central midfielder. Same against Bournemouth.
It’s a disgrace how poorly he’s been used and we would look so much better in every way if he was central.

His proper position is being one of two players in a midfield pairing.