3 hours ago, Argo said:

I will always go back to a moment in the Sarri season when talking about Jorginho.

I remember away to Palace (I think) Barkley was completely boxed in and had he given the ball away we were in big trouble, Jorginho quickly identified the sh*t Ross was in and sharply made himself available for a pass despite being marked himself and then gave the ball to an unmarked Kante.

On paper a boring sideways pass, in reality it stopped a big chance against us.

But that is no boring sideways pass as we know them, that’s playing out from the back overcoming the opposition press, and many teams try to do it. Boring sideways passes are Alonso to Jorginho, to Rudi, to Jorginho, to James, rinse and repeat, when we are in the opposition half trying to break their defensive set up.

29 minutes ago, RMH said:

But that is no boring sideways pass as we know them, that’s playing out from the back overcoming the opposition press, and many teams try to do it. Boring sideways passes are Alonso to Jorginho, to Rudi, to Jorginho, to James, rinse and repeat, when we are in the opposition half trying to break their defensive set up.

I don't disagree that the boring sideways passes exists in our setup (Jorginho is far from the lone culprit however). It's just many times tactically speaking it's either that type of pass, hoof it to a (likely) situation of the opposition getting the ball back or play ourselves into danger.

That specific example sticks with me because everyone else I was watching it with went (paraphrasing) "f**k sake another sideways Jorginho pass".

Believe it or not I'm not actually against replacing him if we can find the right player (if De Jong is avaliable we should be all over that).

Edited May 19, 20224 yr by Argo

1 hour ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I'd only sell for a good price nothing below £20m otherwise give him another 3 year deal. Losing potentially our captain and vice captain does not sound appealing to me at all.

I`d sell for a slap up fish supper, a pint of babycham and a nice snakebelt.

16 minutes ago, Argo said:

I don't disagree that the boring sideways passes don't exist in our setup (Jorginho is far from the lone culprit however). It's just many times tactically speaking it's either that type of pass, hoof it to a (likely) situation of the opposition getting the ball back or play ourselves into danger.

That specific example sticks with me because everyone else I was watching it with went (paraphrasing) "f**k sake another sideways Jorginho pass".

Believe it or not I'm not actually against replacing him if we can find the right player (if De Jong is avaliable we should be all over that).

Can't disagree with you, I don't think that Jorginho is the only culprit, though I think that he sometimes slows us down and that we need someone with a better range of passes to help us not only play out of the back but also break low blocks with precision balls between the lines (a la Cesc, and that is why I suggested Eriksen).

2 hours ago, dkw said:

 

Seems like Juventus have been linked with signing him since a few days after we signed him.

45 minutes ago, RMH said:

Can't disagree with you, I don't think that Jorginho is the only culprit, though I think that he sometimes slows us down and that we need someone with a better range of passes to help us not only play out of the back but also break low blocks with precision balls between the lines (a la Cesc, and that is why I suggested Eriksen).

I do think a lot of the sideways passes are as a result of our wingers liking to cut back onto their stronger foot..., sometimes we need to be more direct, by constantly cutting back you waste valuable seconds which leads to opposition defenders closing down spaces and our boys having to start the build up again... we were far more direct when Pedro/Hazard/Willian were in the team and broke the lines with intelligent runs...  

18 hours ago, Trueblue76 said:

I do think a lot of the sideways passes are as a result of our wingers liking to cut back onto their stronger foot..., sometimes we need to be more direct, by constantly cutting back you waste valuable seconds which leads to opposition defenders closing down spaces and our boys having to start the build up again... we were far more direct when Pedro/Hazard/Willian were in the team and broke the lines with intelligent runs...  

You must be a new fan 

so he's 30 now, me personally since he has 1 year left on his contract I'd give him a bumper deal for an additional year or two. I don't want to lose everyone this window. I know we need more cms but I'd rather keep all our current ones (Jorginho, Kanté, Kova and potentially RLC) add to them with the option of moving to a back 4 and playing a midfield 3 or having 4 world class rotation options for the pivot in a back 3. 

 

On 19/05/2022 at 18:51, Argo said:

I don't disagree that the boring sideways passes exists in our setup (Jorginho is far from the lone culprit however). It's just many times tactically speaking it's either that type of pass, hoof it to a (likely) situation of the opposition getting the ball back or play ourselves into danger.

That specific example sticks with me because everyone else I was watching it with went (paraphrasing) "f**k sake another sideways Jorginho pass".

Believe it or not I'm not actually against replacing him if we can find the right player (if De Jong is avaliable we should be all over that).

I think why i dont like the setup with Jorgi is with him we can never play a pressing game he is just too slow to close down people fast enough .. which means at most times we have to sit back and which also means our play from the back literally start from our box not 20 yards further.. To make that initial 20 yards we have to play 4-5 sideways passes..

the other thing is he has doesnt have a passing range.. James in his cameo showed how you switch play in one pass not 2-3 passes.. he is zero threat from distance too.. i think he is a system and a style player.. more for the continent.. then us.. 

It's why I have been advocating Tchouameni with Jorginho as a squad option. Tchouameni has a great passing range which allows quick transition vs Jorginho who continuously opts for the close option.

Too much of our inability to break down low blocks is the slow transition and penetration in the final third. 

3 hours ago, Jangz said:

I think why i dont like the setup with Jorgi is with him we can never play a pressing game he is just too slow to close down people fast enough .. which means at most times we have to sit back and which also means our play from the back literally start from our box not 20 yards further.. 

 

When did you see this happening, us sitting back and not pressing? Tuchel is pressing with Jorginho for a full year now.

From: https://fbref.com/en/squads/cff3d9bb/Chelsea-Stats

Mount is our best pressing player, no question about it. Jorginho pressed the most in the middle of the pitch this season. Every match I watch his press and positioning wins us the ball at some point, at least once per half, our best player when it comes down to interceptions+tackles. He gets dribbled the most now that's a clear weakness but I haven't seen us sitting back this season, we play a pressing game most of the time it's how Tuchel plays, otherwise Jorginho wouldn't be anywhere near our team.

 

3 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

It's why I have been advocating Tchouameni with Jorginho as a squad option. Tchouameni has a great passing range which allows quick transition vs Jorginho who continuously opts for the close option.

Too much of our inability to break down low blocks is the slow transition and penetration in the final third. 

If Tuchel gets to sign Tchouameni he's a hero. That's one transfer that can't fail, that player is the next big thing when it comes to a world class DM.

Casemiro was immense.. showing what a sitting DM needs to do.. will love to have that in our team rather than the metronome side ways passing ..

Not saying he's as good but Bissouma's contract expires next year. Or if we're fine with taking a Leeds player, Phillips could be an option too. Or Ndidi. We have decent options even if Tchouameni and Rice simply can't be signed.

34 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Not saying he's as good but Bissouma's contract expires next year. Or if we're fine with taking a Leeds player, Phillips could be an option too. Or Ndidi. We have decent options even if Tchouameni and Rice simply can't be signed.

Seen a few people suggesting Bissouma is a Kante like midfielder, I.e. not a defensive one but a box to box player. Would you agree @just I know you are a big fan.

Whereas Phillips and Ndidi are defensive midfielders from the little I have seen of either of them. And honestly I would be fine with either of them.

Phillips would be pricey since he is English and Leeds stayed up. Probably 50mill plus.

Ndidi depends how many years he has left on his contract. I would expect cheaper though. Good shouts Gol.

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Seen a few people suggesting Bissouma is a Kante like midfielder, I.e. not a defensive one but a box to box player. Would you agree @just I know you are a big fan.

Whereas Phillips and Ndidi are defensive midfielders from the little I have seen of either of them. And honestly I would be fine with either of them.

Phillips would be pricey since he is English and Leeds stayed up. Probably 50mill plus.

Ndidi depends how many years he has left on his contract. I would expect cheaper though. Good shouts Gol.

Not a fan of Philips plus coming off a big injury.. not physical enough either..

1 hour ago, Jangz said:

Not a fan of Philips plus coming off a big injury.. not physical enough either..

A Leeds player and not physical enough put in the same sentence...hmm that is like putting Roy Keane and nice in the same sentence lol.

51 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

A Leeds player and not physical enough put in the same sentence...hmm that is like putting Roy Keane and nice in the same sentence lol.

Let me rephrase to say athletic then.. won’t be able to out run or muscle people off..

Ruben Neves wold be perfect for dm.

 

9 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Seen a few people suggesting Bissouma is a Kante like midfielder, I.e. not a defensive one but a box to box player. Would you agree @just I know you are a big fan.

Whereas Phillips and Ndidi are defensive midfielders from the little I have seen of either of them. And honestly I would be fine with either of them.

Phillips would be pricey since he is English and Leeds stayed up. Probably 50mill plus.

Ndidi depends how many years he has left on his contract. I would expect cheaper though. Good shouts Gol.

Problem with Bissouma is the court case still open against him, I doubt any transfer can happen.

4 hours ago, dkw said:

Problem with Bissouma is the court case still open against him, I doubt any transfer can happen.

He's not even been charged.

From what I read, Bissouma is being treated more as a witness to the alleged sexual assault vs being the actual one to commit the crime. Seems he went clubbing with a large group of mates and one of his entourage was the one who allegedly did it, whereas Bissouma (given who he is) was always going to be in question. 

The fact Brighton are still playing him suggests there isn't any evidence against him.

Let’s be real, if we’re planning on getting rid of Jorginho and/or Kante we need someone who’s at a really high level, is Bissouma that player? I’m not sure he is.

34 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

Let’s be real, if we’re planning on getting rid of Jorginho and/or Kante we need someone who’s at a really high level, is Bissouma that player? I’m not sure he is.

I have no doubt both Gallagher + Bissouma can provide us the same energy in midfield as Kante. 

Jorginho needs to be replaced for a top DM. 

15 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I have no doubt both Gallagher + Bissouma can provide us the same energy in midfield as Kante. 

Jorginho needs to be replaced for a top DM. 

Casemiro?

4 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I have no doubt both Gallagher + Bissouma can provide us the same energy in midfield as Kante. 

Jorginho needs to be replaced for a top DM. 

If Frenkie De Jong is openly avaliable (and stalling over United because of no UCL football) we should be all over that.