On 24/11/2019 at 14:09, Slojo said:

So he has to score screamers? Midfielders don't need to be relied on to score goals, especially ones who play as deep as Kovacic. Goals aren't actually the problem, we have scored plenty, we're only 1 goal behind Liverpool who are 11 points above us. 

Don't get me wrong it would be nice if he hit the occasional screamer now and then, as it would be anyone, but it's really not something you criticise a deep playing midfielder for. 

Let's be fair here Just, you've been missing in this thread since he's been playing really well, and one game where we lose and he made a mistake you're straight on his case. 

I love Essien but I don't think he'd be suited to our current team. He was a beast physically but technically he was quite limited (that's why he became so bad once the injury's stripped him of his physical attributes), I think he would struggle with our system, especially playing out under pressure.

4 hours ago, Argo said:

I love Essien but I don't think he'd be suited to our current team. He was a beast physically but technically he was quite limited (that's why he became so bad once the injury's stripped him of his physical attributes), I think he would struggle with our system, especially playing out under pressure.

He would fit just as Kovacic, slightly worse ball control, slightly more attacking presence.

 

17 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He would fit just as Kovacic, slightly worse ball control, slightly more attacking presence.

 

That was like Essiens worst season in a Chelsea shirt after his 2nd knee injury... At least show the early glimpses of him, the Bison was one of my favourite players but he wasn't as good on the ball as Kovacic is. That video is the prime example of how Youtube montages are misleading, I remember Essien that season and he was awful, as Argo said Essien became bad once he started losing his cardio, technically he was limited. 

6 hours ago, Dean said:

As I’ve said before, I thought getting rid of Sarri and bringing in Lampard was a big mistake. Couldn’t have been more wrong, but to your point, Slojo, I’m over the moon about it.

You can either admit you were wrong, move on, and anyone normal, who therefore realises we all make mistakes, will think no less of you. Or you can dig in, constantly raising the bar of what a player/manager needs to do to make the  grade (the bar-raising process in Kova’s case: ‘he’s pants. just passes the ball backwards’... starts passing it forwards .. ‘yeah but he doesn’t run with the ball’... starts clocking up best dribbling stats in the league.. ‘but where are the assists?’... gets a few assists and several would-be assists... ‘not good enough, needs to score goals’) and people will see through it. Re Kova lack of goals, it’s a bit like if I said ‘I’m not going to rate Tammy until he starts making match-saving tackles in our box’.

And indeed, Kova is no Essien, but it’s apples and oranges. He’ll never be the marauding midfielder Essien was and he won’t score those screamers. At the same time, he has skills - e.g. close control, first touch, trickery to spare- that Essien could only have dreamed of. 

 

Spot on Dean. I said Lampard would be gone in November, what a pillock I look now, and I'm really glad about it. Quite honestly I havent felt this way about Chelsea in years, not since I was a kid and Mourinho first came, or Carlo's first season. I love everything about the club and the football we are playing at the moment, I'll kick myself if I miss a Chelsea game nowadays I haven't done that in ages since I was a kid. So all in all I'm really happy. We all get things wrong, I said Hazard would be a flop and wasn't worth the price tag in 2012, that's the biggest L anybody could ever take. 

Kovacic is better than Kante in some ways, Kante is one of the most rounded footballers we have, IMO he's the best in the side. But Kovacic is better at dribbling and ball retention, he can get the ball moving a lot faster and dictates the tempo better, and judging by this season I think his long range passing is better. Without Kovacic I don't think we would be where we are this season, we would've been playing with an inexperienced Gilmour next to Jorginho, or playing Mount really deep where he doesn't perform his best. 

The Jorgi and Kova partnership is severely underrated. Any Chelsea fan should be loving it and loving the fact that we decided to sign Kovacic. 

10 minutes ago, Slojo said:

That was like Essiens worst season in a Chelsea shirt after his 2nd knee injury... At least show the early glimpses of him, the Bison was one of my favourite players but he wasn't as good on the ball as Kovacic is. That video is the prime example of how Youtube montages are misleading, I remember Essien that season and he was awful, as Argo said Essien became bad once he started losing his cardio, technically he was limited. 

This video shows he could fit today just as well as Kovacic, if it was a bad season where he had a couple of assists and a couple of goals, Kovacic by those same standards had a horrible season last year and is having a below average season so far.

Edited November 26, 20196 yr by Gol15

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

This video shows he could fit today just as well as Kovacic, if it was a bad season where he had a couple of assists and a couple of goals, Kovacic by those same standards had a horrible season last year and is having a below average season so far.

A 3 minute montage that covers a full year of games shows that Essien could definitely match Kovacic's 1304 minutes of football he's played this season, okay. 

Why do we need scouts? Just watch Youtube. 

Edited November 26, 20196 yr by Slojo

22 minutes ago, Slojo said:

A 3 minute montage that covers a full year of games shows that Essien could definitely match Kovacic's 1304 minutes of football he's played this season, okay. 

Why do we need scouts? Just watch Youtube. 

If there is evidence how he actually looked while he was here, and if that evidence suggests that he could look just as relevant or even more dominant than Kovacic I don't see why would I need to post a video that is 1304 minutes long.

You prefer that I compare two whole seasons like the last season of Kovacic to this worst season (according to you) of Essien instead? You wouldn't be happy if I did that either.

Kovacic this season compared to Kovacic last season is like my sex life as a 22 year old compared to my sex life as a 12 year old.

 

That said any suggestion he would keep an 'at his best' Essien out of a team is on a 'that's f**king nuts' scale to compare with anything Boris ever wrote on a bus.

 

None of our current midfield would keep an at his best Essien out of a team. If you had the four (including Mount) plus Essien and you were picking three your decision would be which two do I put on the midfield with Essien.

 

He would walk into any midfield in any team in the world. Of our current midfield only Kante may be able to claim that.

 

It would probably be Kovacic missing out for me as well if we could clone Essien although I could be persuaded on it being Jorginho. All I know for sure is it wouldn't be Kante.

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, loz said:

Kovacic this season compared to Kovacic last season is like my sex life as a 22 year old compared to my sex life as a 12 year old.

 

That said any suggestion he would keep an 'at his best' Essien out of a team is on a 'that's f**king nuts' scale to compare with anything Boris ever wrote on a bus.

 

None of our current midfield would keep an at his best Essien out of a team. If you had the four (including Mount) plus Essien and you were picking three your decision would be which two do I put on the midfield with Essien.

 

He would walk into any midfield in any team in the world. Of our current midfield only Kante may be able to claim that.

 

It would probably be Kovacic missing out for me as well if we could clone Essien although I could be persuaded on it being Jorginho. All I know for sure is it wouldn't be Kante.

 

 

 

 

Not one person has said Kovacic is better than Essien, but Kovacic has better technical abillity than Essien did. Essien wouldn't flourish in this system like Kovacic does, that's why as soon as Essien started losing his pace he started to become an average footballer, Essien was declining at the age of 28-29 after his 2nd knee injury. 

That's the argument. 

5 hours ago, Gol15 said:

If there is evidence how he actually looked while he was here, and if that evidence suggests that he could look just as relevant or even more dominant than Kovacic I don't see why would I need to post a video that is 1304 minutes long.

You prefer that I compare two whole seasons like the last season of Kovacic to this worst season (according to you) of Essien instead? You wouldn't be happy if I did that either.

Essien did not have a good season after 2010, my memory might be a little fuzzy I mean we are talking 10 years ago here but I remember Essien severely declining, then he was injured again for 6 months when AVB came in. I do remember a handful of games where Essien played well, usually the big ones that season, United at home, got the assist for the David Luiz equaliser when United were on top form, and Arsenal at home when Alex scored that screamer, that games was like half of the highlights in your video you posted. 

But other than that Essien struggled that season like many players, Malouda, Kalou, Anelka, Drogba etc. Essien without his pace was half the player he was, that's just a fact. 

Essien did not have a good season after 2010, my memory might be a little fuzzy I mean we are talking 10 years ago here but I remember Essien severely declining, then he was injured again for 6 months when AVB came in. I do remember a handful of games where Essien played well, usually the big ones that season, United at home, got the assist for the David Luiz equaliser when United were on top form, and Arsenal at home when Alex scored that screamer, that games was like half of the highlights in your video you posted. 

But other than that Essien struggled that season like many players, Malouda, Kalou, Anelka, Drogba etc. Essien without his pace was half the player he was, that's just a fact. 

He didn't decline then get injured, he got injured then declined to an extent then got injured again and really declined.

He got two injuries, either of which individually were often a career ender. He dud remarkably well to come back from one. Coming back from a second and getting anywhere near his best was just too much to ask from anyone. It would have been a more impressive comeback than if Michael Barrymore had come back as a pool attendant.

Just now, loz said:

He didn't decline then get injured, he got injured then declined to an extent then got injured again and really declined.

He got two injuries, either of which individually were often a career ender. He dud remarkably well to come back from one. Coming back from a second and getting anywhere near his best was just too much to ask from anyone. It would have been a more impressive comeback than if Michael Barrymore had come back as a pool attendant.

I never said he declined and got injured, he got injured several times, I made it pretty clear earlier that he declined because of injuries, not the other way around. I only pointed out the injury under AVB because I don't even think he played a game that season due to his injury, he went on loan to Madrid for 6 months after he returned and played a few games for Mourinho there. 

I never said he declined and got injured, he got injured several times, I made it pretty clear earlier that he declined because of injuries, not the other way around. I only pointed out the injury under AVB because I don't even think he played a game that season due to his injury, he went on loan to Madrid for 6 months after he returned and played a few games for Mourinho there. 

He played under AVB in the one season he was Chelsea manager. He then went to Madrid for the whole of the next season I think.

8 hours ago, loz said:

Kovacic this season compared to Kovacic last season is like my sex life as a 22 year old compared to my sex life as a 12 year old.

 

That said any suggestion he would keep an 'at his best' Essien out of a team is on a 'that's f**king nuts' scale to compare with anything Boris ever wrote on a bus.

 

None of our current midfield would keep an at his best Essien out of a team. If you had the four (including Mount) plus Essien and you were picking three your decision would be which two do I put on the midfield with Essien.

 

He would walk into any midfield in any team in the world. Of our current midfield only Kante may be able to claim that.

 

It would probably be Kovacic missing out for me as well if we could clone Essien although I could be persuaded on it being Jorginho. All I know for sure is it wouldn't be Kante.

 

 

 

 

I was thinking that soon enough people will be saying that no player is ever going to be able to get in the team because apparently Kovacic is such a player that this club has never seen before...Your comment is like a fresh air of common sense. Thank you.

What the hell is going on in here? He's one of our best players this season, yet some of you haters feel the need to compare Kovacic to fantasy players. At the very least you could name players that are actually available on the transfer market.

I mean, shall we start having a go at Tammy in his thread too and post some videos of Didier, or CHO because he's no Robben?

This is somewhat appalling, but most of all pointless.

Edited November 27, 20196 yr by Vagabond

2 hours ago, Vagabond said:

What the hell is going on in here? He's one of our best players this season, yet some of you haters feel the need to compare Kovacic to fantasy players. At the very least you could name players that are actually available on the transfer market.

I mean, shall we start having a go at Tammy in his thread too and post some videos of Didier, or CHO because he's no Robben?

This is somewhat appalling, but most of all pointless.

I think we could really use Zola up front 

Kovacic was indifferent last season under Sarri. No one can deny it. For me it is the worst thing to see a naturally talented player playing under his talent for a season. I'd much rather see a limited player overachieving.

Add goals to his game and Real Madrid comes back knocking with 120m offer. The role he has now under Frank I don't think we see him score much. 1-3 goals per season.

13 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I was thinking that soon enough people will be saying that no player is ever going to be able to get in the team because apparently Kovacic is such a player that this club has never seen before...Your comment is like a fresh air of common sense. Thank you.

You really are a muppet aren't you. 

At last. Well deserved. He's been fantastic this season, and our best player by a mile tonight.

He is just class.

Kovacic in beast mode! Unreal player!

He started the game sloppy, but grew into it when he scored.

I still think we look quite vulnerable with Jorginho and Kovacic though. They are too easy to pass through, and when they give away the ball, we are often giving away big chances.

this guy was the boss at La Mestalla today

1 hour ago, Backbiter said:

At last. Well deserved. He's been fantastic this season, and our best player by a mile tonight.

 

This.