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I Am Gay 4 Diegod

Sarri's system, Jorginho and our progress

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I think people in the match thread after tonight's win slagging off Sarri and the way we play aren't very clued up on football. All I see is everyone moaning saying we aren't making any progress and are boring to watch.. here's how I see it the first few months went smoothly and we transitioned to phase 1, it's stagnated now but it's still getting better and here's why: 

 

1) Jorginho - he is the scapegoat unfortunately because he's sarris favourite, but I've noticed over the last 2 months he has improved so much defensively tonight he constantly hassled spurs and won it back, yes he can't shoot but he is finally shielding the defence and I believe it's not so much when Sarri gets a couple of players he wants Jorginho will go up another level, but when he keeps getting more physical and used to the league like he is really showing now.

 

2) Kante - coincidentally at the same time Jorginho is better shielding the defense Kante has been brilliant going forward recently and looks so much better passing, making runs and even shooting ! So that criticism of Sarri ruining Kante for Jorginho can now Be put to bed, hence the system is working and he's improving the players.   

3)Azpilicueta - anther criticised at the start of the season has totally turned his form around and it's another reason why we look so much better at the back and he's now outperforming alonso each week going forward! 

 

Look how much solid we are recently has nobody noticed this? Because I never see it spoken about. Everyone moaned that Sarri had us open at the back AVB style, well we are the second best defence in the league and look great now in defence and playing out from the back too. 

now Sarri has said he just needs to solve the problem of a blunt attack now that we are more solid at the back and people doubt he will because if you think about it he's stuck to his system and improved us in every way 

- we play out from the back nearly as good as city spurs and Liverpool 

- we dominate the ball against all teams even spurs away 

- Kante is evolving into an even better player somehow

- Jorginho is toughening up and getting effective defensively, this is night and day for me I constantly notice him tracking back chasing wingers and covering and breaking up play now. 

- Hudson -odoi will feature a lot now and Sarri will see he is the difference to sharpening up the attack 

 

imo we are just a striker and LB away from really flowing and looking brilliant. Hazard and CHO on the wings with a top number 9 and we are set. Don't see why everybody has to be so negative, we played really f**king well tonight! Maurizio is some coach and we're going to be some team when it clicks 

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5 minutes ago, I Am Gay 4 Diegod said:

I think people in the match thread after tonight's win slagging off Sarri and the way we play aren't very clued up on football. All I see is everyone moaning saying we aren't making any progress and are boring to watch.. here's how I see it the first few months went smoothly and we transitioned to phase 1, it's stagnated now but it's still getting better and here's why: 

 

1) Jorginho - he is the scapegoat unfortunately because he's sarris favourite, but I've noticed over the last 2 months he has improved so much defensively tonight he constantly hassled spurs and won it back, yes he can't shoot but he is finally shielding the defence and I believe it's not so much when Sarri gets a couple of players he wants Jorginho will go up another level, but when he keeps getting more physical and used to the league like he is really showing now.

I think people, like yourself need to stop acting like Pep and claiming people have no idea about football because they have a different opinion to you. 

 

Personally, I think you’re blind if you think Jorginho is anything other than a liability defensively, he’s on a par with Fàbregas. There was one point tonight where Sissoko was about 5 yards behind him and he just left him to run and only Azpilicuetas great defending stopped the 2 on 1 that was left as a result.

 

Maybe you’re right and it’s the players around him that are the problem but at the moment it looks like he’s a luxury player who suits the style of football in Italy but not the PL.

 

Claiming that people with differing opinions have no clue about football just makes you look like a pretentious d**k, in my opinion.

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11 minutes ago, I Am Gay 4 Diegod said:

I think people in the match thread after tonight's win slagging off Sarri and the way we play aren't very clued up on football. All I see is everyone moaning saying we aren't making any progress and are boring to watch.. here's how I see it the first few months went smoothly and we transitioned to phase 1, it's stagnated now but it's still getting better and here's why: 

 

1) Jorginho - he is the scapegoat unfortunately because he's sarris favourite, but I've noticed over the last 2 months he has improved so much defensively tonight he constantly hassled spurs and won it back, yes he can't shoot but he is finally shielding the defence and I believe it's not so much when Sarri gets a couple of players he wants Jorginho will go up another level, but when he keeps getting more physical and used to the league like he is really showing now.

 

2) Kante - coincidentally at the same time Jorginho is better shielding the defense Kante has been brilliant going forward recently and looks so much better passing, making runs and even shooting ! So that criticism of Sarri ruining Kante for Jorginho can now Be put to bed, hence the system is working and he's improving the players.   

3)Azpilicueta - anther criticised at the start of the season has totally turned his form around and it's another reason why we look so much better at the back and he's now outperforming alonso each week going forward! 

 

Look how much solid we are recently has nobody noticed this? Because I never see it spoken about. Everyone moaned that Sarri had us open at the back AVB style, well we are the second best defence in the league and look great now in defence and playing out from the back too. 

now Sarri has said he just needs to solve the problem of a blunt attack now that we are more solid at the back and people doubt he will because if you think about it he's stuck to his system and improved us in every way 

- we play out from the back nearly as good as city spurs and Liverpool 

- we dominate the ball against all teams even spurs away 

- Kante is evolving into an even better player somehow

- Jorginho is toughening up and getting effective defensively, this is night and day for me I constantly notice him tracking back chasing wingers and covering and breaking up play now. 

- Hudson -odoi will feature a lot now and Sarri will see he is the difference to sharpening up the attack 

 

imo we are just a striker and LB away from really flowing and looking brilliant. Hazard and CHO on the wings with a top number 9 and we are set. Don't see why everybody has to be so negative, we played really f**king well tonight! Maurizio is some coach and we're going to be some team when it clicks 

I agree about the improvement, we looked really solid and good tonight. We obviously still need to improve our attack (and Alonso pissed me off again) but overall it was a really strong performance. Spurs created f**k all and grabbed it on a jammy penalty. With a sharper attack we'd have battered them.

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5 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

I think people, like yourself need to stop acting like Pep and claiming people have no idea about football because they have a different opinion to you. 

 

Personally, I think you’re blind if you think Jorginho is anything other than a liability defensively, he’s on a par with Fàbregas. There was one point tonight where Sissoko was about 5 yards behind him and he just left him to run and only Azpilicuetas great defending stopped the 2 on 1 that was left as a result.

 

Maybe you’re right and it’s the players around him that are the problem but at the moment it looks like he’s a luxury player who suits the style of football in Italy but not the PL.

 

Claiming that people with differing opinions have no clue about football just makes you look like a pretentious d**k, in my opinion.

:laugh2::laugh2: ok, saying people saying Jorginho is sh*te and we are dismal to watch and have made no improvement and Sarri isn't changing anything is thinking you are pep? 

:laugh2:

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Tackling and defensive positioning is a footballing art. Like dribbling. Heading etc. Its a fact some players can do one thing but perhaps not the other. The football gods can do nearly all of it........ Drogba.

Jorginho can do 5-10 yard passing. Not much else, (please, please don't say he can tackle). With each game he looks more and more like a luxury rather than a necessity.

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I agree, considering it’s only halfway through the season the change in our play is incredible.

To change a counter attacking team into a possession based team isn’t easy i imagine, so what Sarri has achieved so far is bloody impressive.

Think about what he can do with the team after a couple of transfer windows. It’s clear we are a few players short from reaching the potential of sarriball but I’d say we are more than half way there now, just need a few goal scorers.

With the signing of Pusilic and a few rumoured in comings such as Barella, Paredes, Lozano etc we are looking at the right type of players for Sarriball. It won’t be long til we get there. Just have patience.

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14 minutes ago, I Am Gay 4 Diegod said:

:laugh2::laugh2: ok, saying people saying Jorginho is sh*te and we are dismal to watch and have made no improvement and Sarri isn't changing anything is thinking you are pep? 

:laugh2:

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say there has been no improvement, we are certainly better at retaining the ball and being the more dominant team in games but that’s all for nothing if we don’t have the ability to break teams down.

 

The pep refernece is more to do with your disregard for anyone’s opinion which differs from you (which seems to be becoming more common on these boards). Everyone has different opinions on different players. 

 

Your claim that anyone who doesn’t worship the ground Jorginho walks on knows nothing about football is bollocks and based on no actual facts. He’s tidy on the ball there’s no denying that and his short passing is great but personally I’m not sure he has the overall skill set to be a world beater in the PL. 

 

Maybe you’ll be proven right in the long term but he is not exactly dynamite at the moment.

 

I apologise for the pep comment as it may have been over the top but emotions are running high tonight for everyone I imagine. I think we’re all sick of losing to Spurs. 

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It irritates me when people attack Sarri and his system. The problem is solely, he inherited a team without goalscorers. If we can replace Morata with a consistent goal scorer, than this team will be so much better. The fact we are still in the top 4 without a striker who can score regularly is impressive in my book. 

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The norm is a new coach comes in, buys the players he wants and starts altering the playing style. Sarri hasn't done that to the extent most do. He's gotten Jorginho and.....? 

It's far more impressive to me that Sarri has changed the tactics using a squad he inherited, improved/changed those players and we've been moderately successful in only 6 months. Will he win a trophy this season? Perhaps but the real judge will be next season because the playing staff will be more to his liking and the players will already have experience adapting to the new expectations. 

This is more of a Klopp at Liverpool situation than Pep at City or Jose at United. Klopp didn't initially overhaul the team and has started finding success replacing 1 or 2 players every summer only after he's instilled his ideas which is what Sarri will do. He doesn't believe in the transfer market and good for him because if this was Conte or Jose's Chelsea they would both be putting any struggles down to the lack of quality players. Sarri will not do this and he shows his belief in the idea of coaching by repeatedly questioning things like attitude and mentality rather than talent/quality or lack of players. 

The only gripes so far are his lack of plan B and situational adjustments to his overall tactics IMO. For example playing Hazard as a false 9 against a parked bus is not the best idea. Neither is playing Jorginho to keep possession when the team you're playing is happy to cede it to you and try to hit on the counter. 

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2 hours ago, I Am Gay 4 Diegod said:

Ok he offered absolutely nothing in defence that's why his overall defensive contribution was the best on the pitch yesterday for both teams 

If you're going to use whoscored ratings as a basis for argument then Danny Drinkwater's overall defensive contribution may been exactly the same had he played in the same position. From what I've seen of him this season I think he's vastly overrated.

If Bayern want CHO (and I say this on the basis that I don't want CHO to leave, but if he does) then we should be asking for Thiago to replace him imho.

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I know jorginho is getting a lot of stick for his defensive work, but we were solid last night, and we have the 2nd best defence in the league, so maybe he isn't as much of a liability as some fans are making out. What disappointed me last night with jorginho, was his forward passing. 

There are a few problems in the team, the full backs don't offer enough going forward, Alonso has been poor for a couple of months now, with so many loose passes and poor crosses.

Left centre midfield Barkley isn't good enough, no vision, and his shooting from distance is woeful. Kovacic is much better in terms of linking the midfield to the attack, but his finishing is even worse, and he doesn't seem to play enough killer balls. RLC looks promising, but ideally I think we need someone like eriksen who can see and play the dangerous passes, and can pitch in with goals from distance aswell.

The front 3 is a bit of mess, which is compounded by the other problems we have in deeper areas. Hazard is trying to the job of both creator and finisher, because of the lack of attacking input from the full backs, and left centre midfield.

Willian and Pedro, are both decent squad players, but neither are really good enough now at their age, far too inconsistent. CHO looks promising but he could leave.

We need a striker that can move the centre backs about, link up play, and also most importantly, stick the ball in the back of the net.

Last night thought we played really well, not many teams keep spurs penned in their own half for 50/60 mins of a match. 

Sarri has got us playing out from the back brilliantly, an we are very sound defensively. He needs to work on the speed in which we transition from defence to attack, because we tend to win the ball back, and allow teams to get their shape back before attacking. He also needs to work on our pressing game, because I think there is definately room to ramp up the aggression. 

So far it's been good from sarri, but I can't help feel his job could be made so much easier, with 3 or 4 signings, then we will see a team that is truly in his mold.

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21 minutes ago, Stim said:

Everything has to get taken to such extremes. If he isn't world class then he must be the most overrated player of all time

I do appreciate and agree with your point and I'm sorry to be that guy, I just think extremes are what we need. Jorginho is 27, he's a finished product. He won't magically improve under Sarri - this is what we get. If anything he'll regress as he nears 30 (in particular his ability to recover the ball). Hence why I think we can do better.

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So last season when Conte wanted his signings he was a c**t & needed to get on with his job! This season let’s throw an open chequebook at Sarri?

Like it was with Conte it’s up to Sarri to get the best out of the players he currently has.

Jorginho is very good at the neat & tidy stuff, but when it comes to playing a pass that matters he is seriously lacking. He is not controlling the game, which is what that position dictates.

Last night because of our lack of cutting edge Spurs let us have the ball, in the hope they could counter attack us, that’s why we had so much possession, no other reason.

I don’t see this improvement you’re talking about, we’ve retreated into ourselves & are playing basic boring football.

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You honestly think that,  particularly in the second half, Spuds having 10 outfield players in their own half and hoofing the ball up to Dave or Kepa was them "letting us have the ball"?

 

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When Mourinho shut down his opponents in the first leg of a cup tie, he was praised with terms such as “masterclass”. Well, if not for a wrongly given goal, I’ve rarely seen us shut down such a good team away from home, and this dates all the way back to Mourinho’s first stint here.

Still don’t agree with the criticism of Jorginho either. Referring back to the starter of the thread; remember last year, when we couldn’t play out from the back for toffee? That has changed, and the main factor is Jorginho’s ability under pressure and willingness to get the ball. People expected the reincarnation of Pirlo, but Jorginho’s role is much more akin to Busquets’ role in Barcelona. Jorginho also plays as our third deepest player when in possession. If you’re measuring him on goals and assists, you might as well start measuring centre backs on the same basis.

I think this team would be so so so much better with a proper striker up front. It relieves so much pressure having a threat in the middle. Giroud could try until tomorrow and still not get to the first post in time, he’s done and dusted for a top team. Morata is done at the club, and that’s a correct decision, but against Forest he gave us what we needed yesterday.

Sarri has solved 50% of the equation, because we are now good in defense. The offensive play will need training ground time, and some new players. 

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3 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

You honestly think that,  particularly in the second half, Spuds having 10 outfield players in their own half and hoofing the ball up to Dave or Kepa was them "letting us have the ball"?

 

It was a bit of both imho, I do think we played well, but not as well as some people may choose to believe. Pochettino is under pressure to deliver trophies and set his team up last night to do exactly that. In many ways it was a Chelsea performance, they played to win and closed the game down.

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2 minutes ago, shedpensioner said:

So last season when Conte wanted his signings he was a c**t & needed to get on with his job! This season let’s throw an open chequebook at Sarri?

Like it was with Conte it’s up to Sarri to get the best out of the players he currently has.

Jorginho is very good at the neat & tidy stuff, but when it comes to playing a pass that matters he is seriously lacking. He is not controlling the game, which is what that position dictates.

Last night because of our lack of cutting edge Spurs let us have the ball, in the hope they could counter attack us, that’s why we had so much possession, no other reason.

I don’t see this improvement you’re talking about, we’ve retreated into ourselves & are playing basic boring football.

Conte was in no way a c**t for wanting his signings, and no one is suggesting sarri gets an open cheque book. 

Conte's downfall was letting his frustrations with the board, affect results on the pitch. 

Conte got the best out of his group of players last season, if he hadn't turned the atmosphere sour, he would likely have still been a job. Also to defend the board a little bit, why should the board buy conte all his players on 3 or 4 year contacts, when he himself refused an extension? 

Spurs tried but couldn't get out of their own half last night, they scored a goal that shouldn't have counted, and Kane had a shot from about 30 yards. It was hardly a tactical master class. I'm sure they would've wanted to take more than 1 goal lead going into the away leg, which they will also be missing son. So to make out we played their game last night is wrong in my opinion.

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1 minute ago, yorkleyblue said:

You honestly think that,  particularly in the second half, Spuds having 10 outfield players in their own half and hoofing the ball up to Dave or Kepa was them "letting us have the ball"?

 

Yes, I genuinely think that they took their foot off the pedal, they have a massive game at the weekend & they had the lead. Their pressing wasn’t nearly as intense as it has been all season, I think they had gears to go, whereas we were full tilt.

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