3 hours ago, dermott said:

Sorry for being right

On 14/07/2025 at 10:13, Remodez said:

Expectational performance in a different role than I expected.

He played more as a lone DM with Caicedo pressing higher up, dropping back into defence at times as well to make like a back 5 when PSG had the ball. This seems to have freed up Gusto and Cucu to play more as traditional overlapping full backs.

I wouldn't say it was exceptional. In fact, probably the weakest contributor on the pitch (relatively speaking). Swap him and Lavia then we're even better, although that gap is reduced when we're playing a better team. I had a quick look after the game but IIRC he played little to no progressive passes.

Cucurella never played as an overlapping fullback but Gusto is the profile you want when you are playing Palmer on the right.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm a bit worried for him long-term if he can't overlap as a fullback. You get the best out of Palmer and Gusto if they play in those roles vs PSG. Enzo may see James as a bit of a project though, and persist.

2 hours ago, venom2011 said:

I wouldn't say it was exceptional. In fact, probably the weakest contributor on the pitch (relatively speaking). Swap him and Lavia then we're even better, although that gap is reduced when we're playing a better team. I had a quick look after the game but IIRC he played little to no progressive passes.

Cucurella never played as an overlapping fullback but Gusto is the profile you want when you are playing Palmer on the right.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm a bit worried for him long-term if he can't overlap as a fullback. You get the best out of Palmer and Gusto if they play in those roles vs PSG. Enzo may see James as a bit of a project though, and persist.

James was brilliant in his role covering for Gusto when he bombed on and even dropping into the backline when needed. He certainly contributed more to the team than E.Fernandez did against PSG. In the 3 man midfield that started the game he had the most touches and most passes, most clearances and interceptions and wasn't dribbled past once.

12 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

James was brilliant in his role covering for Gusto when he bombed on and even dropping into the backline when needed. He certainly contributed more to the team than E.Fernandez did against PSG. In the 3 man midfield that started the game he had the most touches and most passes, most clearances and interceptions and wasn't dribbled past once.

I can only assume he didnt actually watch the final with that opinion, James was outstanding in that position, anchored the midfield to allow Enzo to chase down, Caicedo to go after the ball also. Dropped in behind Gusto when he went forward, dropped in to CB to cover Chalobah going out etc. He was absolutely pivotal to shutting down their midfield.

Edited July 16, 20251 yr by dkw

8 minutes ago, dkw said:

I can only assume he didnt actually watch the final with that opinion, James was outstanding in that position, anchored the midfield to allow Enzo to chase down, Caicedo to go after the ball also. Dropped in behind Gusto when he went forward, dropped in to CB to cover Chalobah going out etc. He was absolutely pivotal to shutting down their midfield.

To say he was the weakest contributor on the pitch is insane.

3 hours ago, venom2011 said:

I wouldn't say it was exceptional. In fact, probably the weakest contributor on the pitch (relatively speaking). Swap him and Lavia then we're even better, although that gap is reduced when we're playing a better team. I had a quick look after the game but IIRC he played little to no progressive passes.

Cucurella never played as an overlapping fullback but Gusto is the profile you want when you are playing Palmer on the right.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm a bit worried for him long-term if he can't overlap as a fullback. You get the best out of Palmer and Gusto if they play in those roles vs PSG. Enzo may see James as a bit of a project though, and persist.

Sorry, I completely disagree. Without him doing what he did, something new to him by the way, our midfield and fullbacks Gusto especially would have been exposed greatly.

Cucu overlapped often, it's why Neto had to work so hard to track back. Not as much as Gusto did mind you though.

He’s legitimately world class when his body allows.

17 minutes ago, The Boehly Babes said:

He’s legitimately world class when his body allows.

Me too. Football aside.

7 hours ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

To say he was the weakest contributor on the pitch is insane.

Why? Everyone had a good game (at the very least). Someone still has to be the weakest contributor regardless.

3 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

Why? Everyone had a good game (at the very least). Someone still has to be the weakest contributor regardless.

The weakest link was Enzo Fernandez ... as is often the case against quality opposition 🙂

Both the stats sites that give player ratings had him bottom of the list anyway, or joint bottom (with Neto) if you like, (who at least had the excuse that he was playing left wing back and defending deep for a lot of the game).

Either way ... it certainly wasn't Reece James !

Whoscored :

Sofascore :

6 hours ago, Remodez said:

Sorry, I completely disagree. Without him doing what he did, something new to him by the way, our midfield and fullbacks Gusto especially would have been exposed greatly.

Cucu overlapped often, it's why Neto had to work so hard to track back. Not as much as Gusto did mind you though.

It's fine to disagree. But my point isn't made without some consideration. And no its not new to him, he played in midfield and few times at academy level, a lot at Wigan, and here. Palmer, Gusto, Cucurella, Caicedo, Sanchez, Colwill, were great. Pedro and Enzo made so many brilliant off-the-ball runs and were pivotal to all the good stuff going forward. That doesn't leave many players to be considered as the weakest contributor.

We defended with a low mid block for large periods - the midfield had good protection. Hence, even with 33% possession, James only made one tackle and one interception. He turned down most opportunities to progress play significantly, pass through the lines and there were a few long ball opportunities not taken as well. Good performance but, in my opinion, not on par with the some of the others - and certainly not better than what Lavia would've offered (and I that mean purely from a tactical perspective).

Yes, Cucurella did overlap on occasion, but he never played as an overlapping fullback.

Edited July 16, 20251 yr by venom2011

9 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

The weakest link was Enzo Fernandez ... as is often the case against quality opposition 🙂

Both the stats sites that give player ratings had him bottom of the list anyway, or joint bottom (with Neto) if you like, (who at least had the excuse that he was playing left wing back and defending deep for a lot of the game).

Either way ... it certainly wasn't Reece James !

Whoscored :

Sofascore :

If you need sofascore to tell you how well someone played then you've already lost half the battle...

A player can make a great contribution without hitting the key attributes that influence their algorithm.

2 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

If you need sofascore to tell you how well someone played then you've already lost half the battle...

A player can make a great contribution without hitting the key attributes that influence their algorithm.

Yes I think Ukraine Bolt highlighted all Enzo's great contributions elsewhere on the Palmer thread LOL.

Did the algorithms get the key contributors at the top end wrong ? I don't think so ... they usually come out as a pretty close fit to the "eye test" ... which shouldn't be a surprise seeing as they come from data inputs from people who are actually watching the game ...

17 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

If you need sofascore to tell you how well someone played then you've already lost half the battle...

A player can make a great contribution without hitting the key attributes that influence their algorithm.

Think there is a conversation to be had sometime in the season about Enzo’s role in the team. He just can’t & isn’t a “10”. I am also convinced Maresca is cautious about playing him in a deep role.

1 minute ago, markpitts said:

Think there is a conversation to be had sometime in the season about Enzo’s role in the team. He just can’t & isn’t a “10”. I am also convinced Maresca is cautious about playing him in a deep role.

He's come to the same conclusion as Pochettino did ... that the only position he can really play him is at #10, which is a shame as he keeps other players who'd be far better #10s out of the team.

Quite telling that Maresca, in a huge game for the club, opts to rely on his senior right back to play in the pivot ahead of the "star" midfielder.

What did Fernandez actually do against PSG ? He ran about a lot, trying to press from the front, but was typically a step short of actually making any interceptions or tackles as he doesn't have the pace. Granted he followed through on a couple of players after the ball had gone, and some people do like that sort of thing, but it doesn't really contribute anything meaningful like we saw from Palmer or Joao Pedro.

The Man is simply a...

I mean I agree to an extent.

James’ on the ball influence is reduced when in midfield given he’s not in those wide areas but he did a FANTASTIC job disrupting Ruiz. Bloke was a no show.

Edited July 16, 20251 yr by Sconnie Blue

1 hour ago, venom2011 said:

It's fine to disagree. But my point isn't made without some consideration. And no its not new to him, he played in midfield and few times at academy level, a lot at Wigan, and here. Palmer, Gusto, Cucurella, Caicedo, Sanchez, Colwill, were great. Pedro and Enzo made so many brilliant off-the-ball runs and were pivotal to all the good stuff going forward. That doesn't leave many players to be considered as the weakest contributor.

We defended with a low mid block for large periods - the midfield had good protection. Hence, even with 33% possession, James only made one tackle and one interception. He turned down most opportunities to progress play significantly, pass through the lines and there were a few long ball opportunities not taken as well. Good performance but, in my opinion, not on par with the some of the others - and certainly not better than what Lavia would've offered (and I that mean purely from a tactical perspective).

Yes, Cucurella did overlap on occasion, but he never played as an overlapping fullback.

I'm voting Dewsbury Hall

6 hours ago, venom2011 said:

It's fine to disagree. But my point isn't made without some consideration. And no its not new to him, he played in midfield and few times at academy level, a lot at Wigan, and here. Palmer, Gusto, Cucurella, Caicedo, Sanchez, Colwill, were great. Pedro and Enzo made so many brilliant off-the-ball runs and were pivotal to all the good stuff going forward. That doesn't leave many players to be considered as the weakest contributor.

We defended with a low mid block for large periods - the midfield had good protection. Hence, even with 33% possession, James only made one tackle and one interception. He turned down most opportunities to progress play significantly, pass through the lines and there were a few long ball opportunities not taken as well. Good performance but, in my opinion, not on par with the some of the others - and certainly not better than what Lavia would've offered (and I that mean purely from a tactical perspective).

Yes, Cucurella did overlap on occasion, but he never played as an overlapping fullback.

The role he played is new to him. He has never to my relocation played as a lone DM tasked with dropping into CB. When he’s played in midfield it’s always been more as a pivot with an actual DM next to him.

Believe me I’m not a fan of James in midfield, you only have to look back this thread to see for yourself, but for that particular set up James is far better suited than Lavia as he’s simply better defensively in reading of the game and organising a defence. Not to mention experience of playing as a CB which Lavia does not have.

I’m not sure what your point is on Cucu, he didn’t invert and we both agree he overlapped so I’m a bit confused.

17 hours ago, venom2011 said:

Why? Everyone had a good game (at the very least). Someone still has to be the weakest contributor regardless.

Correct, and that would be Enzo Fernandez.

On 17/07/2025 at 00:02, Sexyfootball said:

He's come to the same conclusion as Pochettino did ... that the only position he can really play him is at #10, which is a shame as he keeps other players who'd be far better #10s out of the team.

Quite telling that Maresca, in a huge game for the club, opts to rely on his senior right back to play in the pivot ahead of the "star" midfielder.

What did Fernandez actually do against PSG ? He ran about a lot, trying to press from the front, but was typically a step short of actually making any interceptions or tackles as he doesn't have the pace. Granted he followed through on a couple of players after the ball had gone, and some people do like that sort of thing, but it doesn't really contribute anything meaningful like we saw from Palmer or Joao Pedro.

This is clearly not true. He was benched partway through the season, even Maresca said he preferred Lavia and Caicedo at that point. Fernandez won his spot back through sheer commitment and results.

A player who has the second most chances created in the team, behind only Palmer doesn't deserve to be in the team? You're having a laugh

https://www.fotmob.com/leagues/47/stats/season/23685/players/total_att_assist/premier-league

Edited July 17, 20251 yr by Deino

16 hours ago, Deino said:

This is clearly not true. He was benched partway through the season, even Maresca said he preferred Lavia and Caicedo at that point. Fernandez won his spot back through sheer commitment and results.

A player who has the second most chances created in the team, behind only Palmer doesn't deserve to be in the team? You're having a laugh

https://www.fotmob.com/leagues/47/stats/season/23685/players/total_att_assist/premier-league

Players that take corners create more chances, imagine my shock.

Wait until you find out that players who take penalties, often score more.

6 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Players that take corners create more chances, imagine my shock.

Wait until you find out that players who take penalties, often score more.

Plus we did this to death on the Fernandez thread. The conclusion was that most of these "chances" were pretty low quality, which is why the expected assists was only 7 from these 79 "chances"

We really should be aspiring for something better than he is offering in the #10 role. If Madrid genuinely want him, then I'd bite their arm off and move on.

No matter what thread you're in, you're never too far away from a @Ukraine Bolt comment slagging off Enzo Fernandez. It's getting to @nonotnowjim and Jackson levels.