I understand frank keeping the same team,  but with hindsight, the lack of pace in the team he put out really hurt us. 

His hands were tied a little with injuries, but i feel tomori couldve made a difference at the back, and with bayern playing such a high line, maybe it was a game for pedro or willian. 

I was happy he kept the same team though, so cant complain too much. 

Just got to stick the plan now for at least another couple of seasons. The lack of pace, power, and overall quality, needs to be addressed in the market. Changing managers so frequently is a major reason why we have such a patch work of a team. 

Buy quality and show patience and eventually it will bear fruit. 

48 minutes ago, RMH said:

And then again, many in here were saying that the same players (and Barkley amongst them) deserved to start after their performance against Spuds. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. They were just much, much better than us and no William or any other player would have changed that result. Barkley didn't play well, but they just cut through our team when and how they wanted no matter Barkley. It was impressive to see ow they could take out of the game two of our players with just one single movement.

Ok. If some thought sticking with same team was right move to start with, fair enough, I don't agree but I understand it. but surely no-one at half-time thought Barkley should stay on and no changes be made? Bayern were obviously better regardless, but just think the coaching staff are too slow to react to what is happening in front of them. Arsenal was another example recently of reacting to a game getting away from them rather than trying to do something beforehand.

Hahaha

When the inherently bigot British media and boo boys push an agenda that ultimately backs everyone into a corner, a fan favorite gets appointed. 

I tell you, he doesn't half sh*t the bed does he? 

When things are done on emotions with an agenda, rather than on merit that's the outcome. Hope those in charge are taking note. 

Hahaha. 

I consider myself one of Lampard strongest supporters. Still am.

But my oh my, yesterday can only be described in one word – brutal.

First of all, I expect to give any team that comes to Stamford Bridge a fight. I don’t care if its prime Barcelona or Bayern. The Bridge should never be an easy place to come too.
And yesterday Bayern humiliated us and toyed with us for the full 94 minutes. That’s hard to accept.

The set-up was all wrong. It took me about five minutes to realize that and it’s baffling to me that Lampard & Morris didn’t see it.
We fielded what’s probably the slowest attack I’ve ever seen at this club. Which meant Bayern could push up with an extremely high line, well aware that they would catch up to anyone being played in behind them with their superior pace.

They were then able to completely suffocate us with their pressing. At times it felt like they had 15 players on the field as there was simply no way out of our own half for us. Which again comes back to them basically having their backline playing as midfielders.

We need to recall Spurs lost 7-2 at home to Bayern.

Frank's bench was limited, the only other midfielder we had was Gilmour.

He could have started with Tammy and Willian yet neither recently have been tearing up the league.

 

Got battered men against boys it is what it is just move on and let's hope we get top 4 because if we miss CL, attracting the very best will be difficult and it will just take longer to get where we want to be.

 

Lamps got outclassed looked bamboozled and confused as to what to do to even try and stem the tide.

 

Has a long way to go to get to the elite level of managers.

People are all so knowledgeable after the event. The fact is, Lampard had no summer to strengthen, wasn't backed in Jan at all. We lost our best player. Last night there is very little, if anything he could have done to change things.

We simply are not better than Bayern, who are one of the strongest teams in Europe. Lampard has actually got us punching above our weight tbh, because we are overachieving. If that was any other opponent than Bayern, we may have had a chance. 

Edited February 26, 20206 yr by enigma

25 minutes ago, enigma said:

People are all so knowledgeable after the event. The fact is, Lampard had no summer to strengthen, wasn't backed in Jan at all. We lost our best player. Last night there is very little, if anything he could have done to change things.

We simply are not better than Bayern, who are one of the strongest teams in Europe. Lampard has actually got us punching above our weight tbh, because we are overachieving. If that was any other opponent than Bayern, we may have had a chance. 

I blame Barkley for missing that f**king penalty. We could have played Atalanta instead.

Frank seemed to put a lot of the blame on the players and the quality of the squad last night, but that's only part of the issue. Frank has to take some responsibility too. We played  5 at the back again but this has only ever worked for us against Mourinho's Spurs, the other time we tried it with this group of players was away at Arsenal and it didn't work at all and we had to revert back to 4-3-3 in that mach and ended up coming from behind and winning 1-2. 

5 at the back worked really well for Conte in his 1st season, but we had a team suited to that type of football and Conte was a master at organising a team that way. We had 2 really strong and physical central midfielders in Kante and Matic, along with the threat on the break with Hazard and Costa. Last season we changed our personnel and by hiring Sarri we were looking for a shift in our philosophy. A move away from Conte/Mourinho's counter attacking tactics towards a more possession/high press game.  Jorginho and Kovacic are both fantastic footballers and I rate them highly, but they need to be on the ball and have possession. Having those 2 players outnumbered in midfield last night while we sat deep was really painful to watch - they were chasing shadows and I don't blame them for that, I blame the tactics on the night.

I called it before the game that we needed an extra head in central midfield against Bayern and I was proved right. I know Bayern are a very good side, but Liverpool saw them off relatively comfortably last season - and if they face City this year I have no doubt that City will see more of the ball. We've matched both City and Liverpool this year, we needed to be braver with our tactics like we were against them. Our players suit a possession based game, so it frustrates me when we I see us sit back and get bullied at our home ground.

I hate posting negativity, so I'm going to finish this off by saying that I'm still really pleased with our team and what Frank has done this season. We all knew that there were going to be a a lot of ups and downs with such and inexperienced squad/manager and transfer ban. The experience last night for everyone involved is going to be invaluable - I just hope that we're fast learners!

 

57 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

I blame Barkley for missing that f**king penalty. We could have played Atalanta instead.

That would have been brilliant, Can't Defend, Won't Defend

2 hours ago, DannyVblue said:

I called it before the game that we needed an extra head in central midfield against Bayern and I was proved right. I know Bayern are a very good side, but Liverpool saw them off relatively comfortably last season - and if they face City this year I have no doubt that City will see more of the ball. We've matched both City and Liverpool this year, we needed to be braver with our tactics like we were against them. Our players suit a possession based game, so it frustrates me when we I see us sit back and get bullied at our home ground.

The only midfielder on the bench was Gilmour both Kante and RLC not available, I assume injury related.

20 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

The only midfielder on the bench was Gilmour both Kante and RLC not available, I assume injury related.

We had both Mount and Barkley playing as wingers when we had Willian and Pedro on the bench. We easily had enough central midfielders in the squad to make a 3 if Frank wanted to. Could have played the below.

Willy

James
Rudiger
Christensen
Azpi

Jorginho
Kovacic
Barkley

Willian
Mount
Abraham

We lose a defender playing like that, but I actually think it make us more solid as it improves the midfield and gives us a better chance to retain the ball.

2 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

I blame Barkley for missing that f**king penalty. We could have played Atalanta instead.

Playing Atalanta didn't exactly help Valencia very much ... 🙂

11 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

We had both Mount and Barkley playing as wingers when we had Willian and Pedro on the bench. We easily had enough central midfielders in the squad to make a 3 if Frank wanted to. Could have played the below.

Willy

James
Rudiger
Christensen
Azpi

Jorginho
Kovacic
Barkley

Willian
Mount
Abraham

We lose a defender playing like that, but I actually think it make us more solid as it improves the midfield and gives us a better chance to retain the ball.

With that back four and the midfield of Kante for Barkley, a dross like Manchester Utd put 2 past us.

1 minute ago, RMH said:

With that back four and the midfield of Kante for Barkley, a dross like Manchester Utd put 2 past us.

I'm not saying that's team team we should have played - I'm saying that's the formation I'd have gone with. I can see why frank would want to keep the same starting line-up as against spurs, but at half time I think we all knew something needed to change as we were being completely overrun in midfield - but no changes were made. 

I'd personally play Tomori and Zouma at the back, they were starting to form a decent partnership before Christensen and Rudiger both recovered from injury.

And regarding the United game, they scored with their only 2 chances - one being a set piece. We weren't completely dominated in midfield like we were last night.

A back 4 would have been worst we had 5 defender's and couldn't stop them I don't think losing one would have improved us what it would have done is have our two CB and fullback's getting dragged out of position constantly leaving double decker bus holes like we have seen all season

 

 

47 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

I'm not saying that's team team we should have played - I'm saying that's the formation I'd have gone with. I can see why frank would want to keep the same starting line-up as against spurs, but at half time I think we all knew something needed to change as we were being completely overrun in midfield - but no changes were made. 

I'd personally play Tomori and Zouma at the back, they were starting to form a decent partnership before Christensen and Rudiger both recovered from injury.

And regarding the United game, they scored with their only 2 chances - one being a set piece. We weren't completely dominated in midfield like we were last night.

I'd agree with giving Tomori/Zouma another go, or at least bringing in either alongside Rudiger. One of Rudiger's strengths is his tackling but he frequently looks exposed by pace. That is something Tomori brings so maybe they would be a good combination.

In fact our back 5 might have looked a lot better last night with a middle 3 of Tomori/Zouma/Rudiger.

12 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I'd agree with giving Tomori/Zouma another go, or at least bringing in either alongside Rudiger. One of Rudiger's strengths is his tackling but he frequently looks exposed by pace. That is something Tomori brings so maybe they would be a good combination.

In fact our back 5 might have looked a lot better last night with a middle 3 of Tomori/Zouma/Rudiger.

Our best defensive performance of the season was against Ajax away when we won 0-1. We played 4-3-3 with Zouma and Tomori as centre-backs. 

44 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

Our best defensive performance of the season was against Ajax away when we won 0-1. We played 4-3-3 with Zouma and Tomori as centre-backs. 

They'd be my first choice pair .... don't understand why they are so out of favour given how well we did with them results wise , and what we have seen from the others ...

13 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

They'd be my first choice pair .... don't understand why they are so out of favour given how well we did with them results wise , and what we have seen from the others ...

I think though that shows the crux of the problem, from memory both tomori and zooms had slight knocks then rudi gets fit again (he is the assumed no1 CB) so plays. We kept chopping and changing the CB's so while the other 2 were out it was a chance to settle a back line. Personally I think all 4 our our CB options are "the other CB" the one to go along with a top quality leader at the back which is the issue.

 

8 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

I blame Barkley for missing that f**king penalty. We could have played Atalanta instead.

To be fair, I don't think it would have mattered too much. Even if we beat Atalanta, we wouldn't have progressed beyond. In fact, people talking about how we looked against Bayern, but imo Ajax made us look ever worse at home.

If not for those sending offs, we would be in the Europa. Valencia away was another mediocre performance from the team. Granted it was earlier on in the season and we weren't as cohesive as we are now. We still have a lot of work to do tbh. 

8 hours ago, enigma said:

People are all so knowledgeable after the event. The fact is, Lampard had no summer to strengthen, wasn't backed in Jan at all. We lost our best player. Last night there is very little, if anything he could have done to change things.

We simply are not better than Bayern, who are one of the strongest teams in Europe. Lampard has actually got us punching above our weight tbh, because we are overachieving. If that was any other opponent than Bayern, we may have had a chance. 

All of us know the mitigating circumstances and I'm not turning against him, but that doesn't mean frank gets a free pass all season. Let's be honest, without his playing career with us, there would be mutiny on here by now regardless of transfer bans and hazard going. Our home form hasn't been this bad since the mid-80s. Last night the average age of the team was higher than Bayern's...this young team mantra has been a bit of a smokescreen all season for the amount of poor performances and results. Everyone needs to improve, the players, those buying new players and frank himself.

Edited February 26, 20206 yr by The Brit

42 minutes ago, The Brit said:

All of us know the mitigating circumstances and I'm not turning against him, but that doesn't mean frank gets a free pass all season. Let's be honest, without his playing career with us, there would be mutiny on here by now regardless of transfer bans and hazard going. Our home form hasn't been this bad since the mid-80s. Last night the average age of the team was higher than Bayern's...this young team mantra has been a bit of a smokescreen all season for the amount of poor performances and results. Everyone needs to improve, the players, those buying new players and frank himself.

Spot on. Everyone was in full mutiny this time last season and we were in much better shape (albeit with Hazard on the books).

Frank learnt a harsh lesson last night and he has to improve as much as anyone.

Football (and this Forum in particular) is all about opinions. It's what it's all about and none of us are going to agree on everything.

I don't think Lamps is above criticism and he will no doubt hold up his hands and admit he has got things wrong at times this season. He's a young manager still learning so it's to be expected. BUT it amazes me how many people think they could do a better job and actually have the front to come out with things like "why didn't he start Willian and Pedro". f**k me, have you not seen those two for the majority of this season? Lamps isn't exactly spoiled for choices and I;m sure if RLC, Pulicic and CHO had been fit and available we would have seen a different line-up, but for folk to honestly think Willian and Pedro were the answer last night then they can't have been seeing what I have this season.

Summer clear-out, a number of quality signings, injured players back to full fitness to give us squad to compete and THEN we can judge Lamps, not now when he's working with a VERY average squad of players.    

8 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Football (and this Forum in particular) is all about opinions. It's what it's all about and none of us are going to agree on everything.

I don't think Lamps is above criticism and he will no doubt hold up his hands and admit he has got things wrong at times this season. He's a young manager still learning so it's to be expected. BUT it amazes me how many people think they could do a better job and actually have the front to come out with things like "why didn't he start Willian and Pedro". f**k me, have you not seen those two for the majority of this season? Lamps isn't exactly spoiled for choices and I;m sure if RLC, Pulicic and CHO had been fit and available we would have seen a different line-up, but for folk to honestly think Willian and Pedro were the answer last night then they can't have been seeing what I have this season.

Summer clear-out, a number of quality signings, injured players back to full fitness to give us squad to compete and THEN we can judge Lamps, not now when he's working with a VERY average squad of players.    

I think the squad point is fair. I bang on a lot about our sh*t recruitment and the sad thing is we're now left with the dregs of that plus a bunch of players who fitted Sarri's style but not Franks.

He has done a great job of finally injecting youth and on the main they have done well. I hope we get the squad changes right in the summer so we can see his real football.

That said, there are some issues that have been happening all season that need to be fixed. They won't purely be fixed in the transfer market. Frank is a young manager himself and still learning but in the same way we expect to see progress from Tammy, Mount etc. we should also expect to see progress from him and signs he can fix the issues we have been watching all year.