36 minutes ago, JM7 said:

From Sky Sports:

"As far as he was concerned, he would've liked to have been given more time, and he still has a lot of belief in his own abilities and he felt he could turn the situation around. He was told in the summer that finishing in the top four wouldn't be good enough.

"He was told that Chelsea needed to bridge the gap to Liverpool and Manchester City and be in a position to challenge for the title. That just hasn't materialised and the club feel that Tuchel will get more out of these players than he could.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Saying a top 4 finish isn't good enough while we're in middle of a pandemic and six new signings to fit in. The board is a joke.

39 minutes ago, JM7 said:

From Sky Sports:

"As far as he was concerned, he would've liked to have been given more time, and he still has a lot of belief in his own abilities and he felt he could turn the situation around. He was told in the summer that finishing in the top four wouldn't be good enough.

"He was told that Chelsea needed to bridge the gap to Liverpool and Manchester City and be in a position to challenge for the title. That just hasn't materialised and the club feel that Tuchel will get more out of these players than he could.

If this is true, Tuchel might also fail pretty fast and not even live to see the summer transfer window. Allegri next in line...

In a popularity contest Franks earnt the fans total respect, and that won't be tarnished, Romans bought respect!!

11 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

That's absolutely ridiculous. Saying a top 4 finish isn't good enough while we're in middle of a pandemic and six new signings to fit in. The board is a joke.

Sky Sports, mind.  Usually random web-nerds making stuff up and posting it so the slow of thought click, watch and believe.  No-one at Sky knows what was discussed or what was or was not acceptable as a season's finish.

35 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Maybe there is a reason why he didn't rate him, that's why I think it's viable to think that maybe Alonso caused some problems for Lampard.

Nah, he simply prefer Emerson but Emerson was so bad last season that he has no choice but to play Alonso who outplayed Emerson as lb. 

Honestly I am not sure about all this player revolt. Maybe it is true, who knows. 

But that is not important. Lamp is sacked simply because after 200 m transfer, the board want to see clear improvement but so far I have to say maybe not.

Should lamp be given more time?

I personally say absolutely yes but you can clearly tell he is struggling to build a balance team with this squad. 

5 hours ago, Nibs said:

Without a doubt.

These things always go in circles. Since I was a kid who got into football I have seen Liverpool, Arsenal, Leeds, Man Utd, Forest, us and Man City dominate for periods (with a bit of success for likes of Derby, Everton and Blackburn, but thankfully never Spurs!)

But we have clearly slipped from where we are a few seasons ago. Not saying it is irretrievable but perhaps supporters have to get used to us not winning trophies for a period - bit like the gooners. Put's over the flip-side of the argument that "The Chelsea way is the successful way". All very well sacking managers every season or two for the short-term gain but then you run the risk of losing stability with no long-term plan and maybe now we are about to see the downside of that?

Loved Peps comments re sorry for Lamps and looks forward to having a meal with him at some point but the telling quote was at big clubs like Chelsea there is no project - you succeed or you're out. Brutal.

And I think clinging onto Lampard would've only kept us at this stage for longer. 

I still believe we've made some good signings, plenty more to come, we've got some good players, some better midfielders and a good CB and I think we're a big problem. 

I think if I’m honest, I’m glad there has been a change. I didn’t see anything changing under Frank and he looked like he was out of ideas. I couldn’t see how we would get anything but a mauling against Ath Madrid. 
 

I am more optimistic now that Tuchel will be in charge. 

If it’s true that certain players caused trouble I would’ve said get them out of the club at all costs this window so that Frank can work with players he trusts, but not to be. We’ve been here before but with much better players undermining a manager, this bunch that’s been rumoured are bang average...damn shame. 

25 minutes ago, JM7 said:

I think if I’m honest, I’m glad there has been a change. I didn’t see anything changing under Frank and he looked like he was out of ideas. I couldn’t see how we would get anything but a mauling against Ath Madrid. 
 

I am more optimistic now that Tuchel will be in charge. 

Ain’t nothing wrong with that opinion, I had the same concerns, just wished I was proved wrong though. 

30 minutes ago, Dolfy52 said:

If it’s true that certain players caused trouble I would’ve said get them out of the club at all costs this window so that Frank can work with players he trusts, but not to be. We’ve been here before but with much better players undermining a manager, this bunch that’s been rumoured are bang average...damn shame. 

Personally I think it's nonsense that the players who weren't being played caused Frank to be sacked. 

What is more likely is that the leaders in the dressing room, both coaches and players, who are trusted - Azpi, Rudiger, etc. have reported that the general mood is down, that the players do not know what they are supposed to be doing and feel like Lampard isn't supporting them in the media. 

The club aren't going to pay attention to the musings of players who are grumbly because they aren't being played. 

 

On 25/01/2021 at 10:43, Slojo said:

Love Frank as a bloke and wish him all the best, but I think this is the right move by the Board if so. I think it's the right decision going forward. 

Sadly I have to agree. Would have loved him to succeed but in the end his lack of experience was apparently becomming obvious with the players if it is true that he wasn't offering up tactics but relying on individuals to go on the pitch and play their game with minimal instructions. Under those conditions, players will often take the safer option and pass square or backwards.

I think the missing piece here isn't just the results. Chelsea bought what you can only assume they thought from top to bottom was a special player in Havertz.

If you are Lampard and you don't build the team around Havertz- then you better win, that simple. I don't agree with those suggesting we were building for the long term. A long term lineup would have looke more like this 4-2-3-1 Werner as the 9, Pulisic and CHO as wingers, Havertz 10, and Gilmour / Mount deeper. The only time you saw anything resembling that, is when it seemed FL knew he was already gone. The modern plan for Werner / Havertz always should have been those two interchanging the 9/10 role.

I don't know if we have realistic time left in this window but going forward I would sell one of : Mount, Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic and one of : Zouma, Rudiger, Christensen, and one of Alonso, Emerson, and buy the best central defender you can find for the money.

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

I think if I’m honest, I’m glad there has been a change. I didn’t see anything changing under Frank and he looked like he was out of ideas. I couldn’t see how we would get anything but a mauling against Ath Madrid. 
 

I am more optimistic now that Tuchel will be in charge. 

Agreed.

Frank was lost. He simply wasn't ready for this job. He's charismatic and legendary and a Chelsea icon, but he is not capable of managing Chelsea at this point in his career. He had no tactical setup that was identifiable, he lacked the ability to make adjustments and his inability to settle on roles and a consistent starting eleven was damaging.

Frank will need to go back and manage somewhere where the pressure is reduced and he can build his style of play and training methods.

Tuchel on the other hand has managed at Mainz, built a reputation there for being an innovator and knowledgeable coach. Then was given his big shot at Dortmund where he succeeded and evolved.

When you look at his work at PSG it wasn't just a bunch of stars scoring goals, they were always well prepared. Last year beating Liverpool, Manchester United and Real Madrid in the CL to reach the final and gave Bayern a tough match. 

What I like most about Tuchel is his ability to plan for opponents and prepare his players for the challenges each opponent provides. There is stark differences between Tuchel and Lampard so it will be interesting to see how he does with this group.

His starting eleven selection for tomorrow will be fascinating. 

Does anyone think that Frank was just a stop gap? The board/owner buying Harvetz & Werner was to tempt one of the German coaches knowing full well that was their main target anyway?

9 minutes ago, ronin said:

Does anyone think that Frank was just a stop gap? The board/owner buying Harvetz & Werner was to tempt one of the German coaches knowing full well that was their main target anyway?

I think that’s kind of obvious now, yeah.

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

Honestly I am not sure about all this player revolt. Maybe it is true, who knows. 

But that is not important. Lamp is sacked simply because after 200 m transfer, the board want to see clear improvement but so far I have to say maybe not.

Should lamp be given more time?

I personally say absolutely yes but you can clearly tell he is struggling to build a balance team with this squad. 

I think that was always going to be the case with an inexperienced manager. The pressure to succeed is so great now that at the first whiff of the possibility of missing out on the CL sends the board into fits. There were always bound to be bumps in the road for Frank. I don't know who, if anyone at Chelsea he could turn to for advice and help. At least Ole can call Fergie if he needs to, but Frank was out there on his own (and I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong). He'll learn from this and hopefully will be back in management before long. 

2 minutes ago, Stretford Ender said:

I think that was always going to be the case with an inexperienced manager. The pressure to succeed is so great now that at the first whiff of the possibility of missing out on the CL sends the board into fits. There were always bound to be bumps in the road for Frank. I don't know who, if anyone at Chelsea he could turn to for advice and help. At least Ole can call Fergie if he needs to, but Frank was out there on his own (and I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong). He'll learn from this and hopefully will be back in management before long. 

That’s true, Ole is very lucky to have Fergie. I think Lampard really could have done with someone like him.

36 minutes ago, ronin said:

Does anyone think that Frank was just a stop gap? The board/owner buying Harvetz & Werner was to tempt one of the German coaches knowing full well that was their main target anyway?

The board is playing 3d chess now, using our legends as bait and what not... I hope it isn't true but in either case if it doesn't work out with Tuchel the board will look pretty stupid.

Martin Samuels with an interesting piece. Not saying it is all correct but does you make you wonder whether this was always the plan based on our summer signings:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9185999/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Frank-Lampard-taken-RIDE-Chelsea.html

8 hours ago, JM7 said:

Do you think things would have changed if Frank had won the FA cup last season? 

No. Mourinho twice, Ancelotti, Di Matteo, Conte, they were all sacked the season after winning trophies. Tuchel will be the same if he wins a trophy, he will be sacked as soon as we go on a run of poor form. It's becoming harder and harder to get excited about the future of the club when you know the manager will be sacked and we have to start over all over again.

Edited January 26, 20215 yr by Scott Harris

5 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

No. Mourinho twice, Ancelotti, Di Matteo, Conte, they were all sacked the season after winning trophies. Tuchel will be the same if he wins a trophy, he will be sacked as soon as we go on a run of poor form. It's becoming harder and harder to get excited about the future of the club when you know the manager will be sacked and we have to start over all over again.

Tuchel himself may be another stepping stone until Nagelsmann is available in 18 months. That would explain the relatively short contract.

19 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

The board is playing 3d chess now, using our legends as bait and what not... I hope it isn't true but in either case if it doesn't work out with Tuchel the board will look pretty stupid.

To be honest it hasn’t stopped them in the past! 

Like so many others I wanted Frank to succeed but due to his lack of experience he has looked out of his depth in the last few weeks. It looked to me that he was relying on individual talent to get a result rather than any great tactical planning. Even against Luton, so many of the attacking passes went astray as players did not exactly where the teammates were. The new manager is going to more or less be the opposite as he will attempt to micro manage everything off and on the field. The players will practice routines over and over again on the training pitch so hopefully there will be less of balls played long from the back  running into touch whilst the supporters ask who that was for. So in many ways, it is going to be the opposite of what Frank was doing as most young players need instructions. Whether it works with these players, we will see but I honestly believe we will start to see outstanding performances from the players who have come from Germany and that form of playing. I would love to go back a week or so though and hear Frank say that he realises he needs some more help and looks for a purely tactical routine driven coach to join him so he really could learn whilst in the job.

I don't buy that conspiracy theory, Lamps was appointed pre covid and covid damaging other clubs' finances was what let us run at Timo and Havertz unopposed.

I think the club had no hope of having a good season during a transfer ban and losing Hazard so they went for Lamps, if things were still going well they would have kept him on, not like they were waiting for Tuchel to get sacked so they can get him, like he's a real prize...

They tried to do the romantic thing but then got cold feet as soon as things got rocky, simple as that I think.