13 minutes ago, dkw said:

Thats a disgusting claim.

You're right and I apologize, the tone I was responding top was patronising but I should have dealt with it better or failing that ignored him.

Edited January 26, 20215 yr by Argo

10 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Winning the league cup under Super Frank would mean more to me than say, winning the champions league under Pep Guardiola.

Great post.

Fully agree, the feeling of seeing us lift any trophy under a legendary player using academy players would have been fantastic.

9 minutes ago, Argo said:

You're right and I apologize, the tone I was responding top was patronising but I should have dealt with it better or failing that ignored him.

Good man.

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

Fully agree, the feeling of seeing us lift any trophy under a legendary player using academy players would have been fantastic.

tbh not every fan thinks like this

I dont really care who is the manager, as long as we win

1 minute ago, cfcforeverfan said:

tbh not every fan thinks like this

I dont really care who is the manager, as long as we win

I couldnt give a f**k what every fan thinks, I was giving my feelings on it.

33 minutes ago, JM7 said:

You do wonder whether Frank would have been better trying to work with the youngsters rather than trying to intergrat the bought players. He seemed to be able to work with them very well. 
 

I saw one rumour regarding the Rice transfer that the board felt that Lampard was trying to use his status to only manage young English kids and that he couldn’t manage the bigger players. That’s why he was pushing for Rice. It’s a brutal comment and obviously we don’t know how true it is. 

To some degree, yes. He probably should have dropped Werner and Havertz earlier. 

But I am not sure i agree about lamp problem in managing big player. Who is big player in our team? Azpi is i think our most senior player, and I will be surprised if azpi is hard to managed. None of our attacker are wc players, not even close. 

5 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

To some degree, yes. He probably should have dropped Werner and Havertz earlier. 

But I am not sure i agree about lamp problem in managing big player. Who is big player in our team? Azpi is i think our most senior player, and I will be surprised if azpi is hard to managed. None of our attacker are wc players, not even close. 

I think his issue was managing the senior players who were on the sidelines. We’ve had other managers who have still found a way of making these players feel valued and useful - rather than isolating them. 

Do you think things would have changed if Frank had won the FA cup last season? 

It’s interesting to me to hear the different views of Chelsea fans. Those who would rather we stuck with frank the club legend and who cares if he;s a crap coach and Chelsea finish mid table, as compared with those that want Chelsea to be a top club constantly challenging for honours. 
 

I don’t think Chelsea is a mid table club anymore. I’ve taken an interest in Chelsea since the 1972 cup final but I live in Australia so I don’t claim that Chelsea is apart of my social life. But just because I’m an older fan doesn’t mean I want the club to just be a place for mates. If soccers about anything it’s about meritocracy. You get into the team on merit. Abramovitch has earned the right to do it his way. He has backed the team time and time again and earned my respect and gratitude. I love seeing the team challenging for trophies. 
 

I also like the team to play with style. We had a far better style with raneri  than with frank recently. Frank’s legacy as a coach is giving the young players a go. Every now you could see flashes of a style but mostly it was so unstructured. Frank didn’t earn the job as coach and really didn’t look like a good coach. He made Chelsea look a lot worse than they are. In short Frank was basically a garbage coach but still. Did a great for the young players. 

11 hours ago, just said:

Spot on carlo. Your second paragraph is the key part and reading through all the comments this evening, something I don't think posters like Argo, slojo and a good few others will ever understand or truly relate to.

Yes of course we will move on. Life is like that, but they are entirely, completely, missing the point. Next season Roman's new faddy fashionable manager may have Mbappe, Neymar and Varane playing in Blue and we win the Champions League against Madrid 3-0. Yeah, great. We will all enjoy that.

But I can tell you now, hand on heart, 100%, that personally I would rather have a League Cup Final win over Tottenham, Arsenal, Liverpool, insert rivals name here, with Frank in charge and a sprinkling of our own home grown players. Old fashioned, unrealistic? I don't care. That would mean more to me.  Because that to me would represent a club identity, a direction, an evolution. I could relate to that, savour that, identify with that far, far more.

I actually really enjoyed the first season under Frank for a lot of those reasons you listed, but it soon came crashing down, it's inevitable. 

Great words from Reece.

Remember, Matt Law's word isn't always true. 

2 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Remember, Matt Law's word isn't always true. 

How do we know Oscar isnt lying?.

8 minutes ago, ozboy said:

It’s interesting to me to hear the different views of Chelsea fans. Those who would rather we stuck with frank the club legend and who cares if he;s a crap coach and Chelsea finish mid table, as compared with those that want Chelsea to be a top club constantly challenging for honours. 
 

I don’t think Chelsea is a mid table club anymore. I’ve taken an interest in Chelsea since the 1972 cup final but I live in Australia so I don’t claim that Chelsea is apart of my social life. But just because I’m an older fan doesn’t mean I want the club to just be a place for mates. If soccers about anything it’s about meritocracy. You get into the team on merit. Abramovitch has earned the right to do it his way. He has backed the team time and time again and earned my respect and gratitude. I love seeing the team challenging for trophies. 
 

I also like the team to play with style. We had a far better style with raneri  than with frank recently. Frank’s legacy as a coach is giving the young players a go. Every now you could see flashes of a style but mostly it was so unstructured. Frank didn’t earn the job as coach and really didn’t look like a good coach. He made Chelsea look a lot worse than they are. In short Frank was basically a garbage coach but still. Did a great for the young players. 

Wow! IMO there's so much wrong with that post it's hard to know where to begin!!! Not to mention the revision of recent history!

Just now, jack_super_class said:

How do we know Oscar isnt lying?.

Possible but I doubt it, if you just had a bust up with someone like Costa, I doubt you want to give them the satisfaction and start lying. And if you've made up with him, you wouldn't really want to start a lie about it either would you? 

I think it's more believable that Matt Law's source is wrong. 

13 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Do you think things would have changed if Frank had won the FA cup last season? 

No, it would have been a good achievement in isolation (infact we did well to get to the final given our route) but a domestic cup can never be a true indication of progress either way, the league results and performances were always going to be the main metrics to access Frank. 

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

One of things that is concerning to me about the club is that we’ve declined over the last 5 years. Yes we’ve won the PL, but apart from that, we’re nowhere near consistently dominating and winning the CL. The fact that we’re in and out of the CL says it all. 

Without a doubt.

These things always go in circles. Since I was a kid who got into football I have seen Liverpool, Arsenal, Leeds, Man Utd, Forest, us and Man City dominate for periods (with a bit of success for likes of Derby, Everton and Blackburn, but thankfully never Spurs!)

But we have clearly slipped from where we are a few seasons ago. Not saying it is irretrievable but perhaps supporters have to get used to us not winning trophies for a period - bit like the gooners. Put's over the flip-side of the argument that "The Chelsea way is the successful way". All very well sacking managers every season or two for the short-term gain but then you run the risk of losing stability with no long-term plan and maybe now we are about to see the downside of that?

Loved Peps comments re sorry for Lamps and looks forward to having a meal with him at some point but the telling quote was at big clubs like Chelsea there is no project - you succeed or you're out. Brutal.

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

One of things that is concerning to me about the club is that we’ve declined over the last 5 years. Yes we’ve won the PL, but apart from that, we’re nowhere near consistently dominating and winning the CL. The fact that we’re in and out of the CL says it all. 

The only consistent club in the last 5-10 years have been City from a Champions League Qualification perspective. Liverpool have just started a new era and are on the right trend, so time will tell. The likes of Arsenal and Utd have been run very badly. As for us, we have all the tools to be run more consistently than we have but it just hasn't worked with a number of parties to blame from the board, managers and even the fans. So it is a concern in that respect.

1 hour ago, dkw said:

I couldnt give a f**k what every fan thinks, I was giving my feelings on it.

same as me, i just say i dont give a f**k who managing us, you put SAF or Wenger there i can still cheer if we win every trophies

2 minutes ago, Nibs said:

but the telling quote was at big clubs like Chelsea there is no project - you succeed or you're out. Brutal.

Brutal indeed, and over the last 5 years unrewarding, how long do we go on with this short-term before we realise its not working anymore, half a decade is a long time.

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

You do wonder whether Frank would have been better trying to work with the youngsters rather than trying to intergrat the bought players. He seemed to be able to work with them very well. 
 

I saw one rumour regarding the Rice transfer that the board felt that Lampard was trying to use his status to only manage young English kids and that he couldn’t manage the bigger players. That’s why he was pushing for Rice. It’s a brutal comment and obviously we don’t know how true it is. 

Frank working with youngsters wouldn't have helped as that is not the clubs ambition and aim. The youth worked well in the first few months but from Xmas onwards you could see they weren't at the level needed to compete at the very top.

If you keep youngsters, the risk is we fall into a club that is limited to a top achievement of finishing in the top 4.

The club invested to win the title and I'm sure Frank had the confidence to be the man to do that with our resources. Obviously it wasn't title or face the sack but when you are in a position where you might not even qualify for the top 4, it becomes a major problem. 

It's all down to just lack of experience in my book. Management is not easy at the highest level without it.

3 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

The only consistent club in the last 5-10 years have been City from a Champions League Qualification perspective. Liverpool have just started a new era and are on the right trend, so time will tell. The likes of Arsenal and Utd have been run very badly. As for us, we have all the tools to be run more consistently than we have but it just hasn't worked with a number of parties to blame from the board, managers and even the fans. So it is a concern in that respect.

I think our recent fall has been mainly down to the modern game outgrowing our previously successful style between Jose's two spells. Conte gave us/the style an ultimate last horrah by catching the league flat footed with his formation change but after that i feel we realized we needed to adapt with the times hence Sarri, Lampard and now Tuchel's appointments. Unfortunately us choosing to undertake the transition has come at the worst possible time in the context of competing for the league as it's coinciding with Pep and Klopp's teams both peaking.

35 minutes ago, JM7 said:

I think his issue was managing the senior players who were on the sidelines. We’ve had other managers who have still found a way of making these players feel valued and useful - rather than isolating them. 

I think the issue is more on the results and lack of progress. All the problem come down to 200 m transfer that does not fit and the expectations that come with it. 

5 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Frank working with youngsters wouldn't have helped as that is not the clubs ambition and aim. The youth worked well in the first few months but from Xmas onwards you could see they weren't at the level needed to compete at the very top.

If you keep youngsters, the risk is we fall into a club that is limited to a top achievement of finishing in the top 4.

The club invested to win the title and I'm sure Frank had the confidence to be the man to do that with our resources. Obviously it wasn't title or face the sack but when you are in a position where you might not even qualify for the top 4, it becomes a major problem. 

It's all down to just lack of experience in my book. Management is not easy at the highest level without it.

I think the youth are the last one's holding us back tbh, they were the reason we made top 4 last season.

I can see James, Mount, Gallagher and CHO all being in our next title winning team all going well with their development, Tammy not so much a weekly starter but definitely a squad player.

Edited January 26, 20215 yr by Argo

4 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

The only consistent club in the last 5-10 years have been City from a Champions League Qualification perspective. Liverpool have just started a new era and are on the right trend, so time will tell. The likes of Arsenal and Utd have been run very badly. As for us, we have all the tools to be run more consistently than we have but it just hasn't worked with a number of parties to blame from the board, managers and even the fans. So it is a concern in that respect.

Top 4 finishes in the past 10 years

• Manchester City (10) = 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
• Chelsea (7) = 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2019, 2020
• Manchester United (6) = 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2018, 2020
• Arsenal (6) = 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016
• Liverpool (5) = 2014, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
• Tottenham Hotspur (5) = 2012, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
• Leicester City (1) = 2016

Top 4 finishes in the past 5 years

• Manchester City (5) = 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
• Liverpool (4) = 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
• Tottenham Hotspur (4) = 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
• Chelsea (3) = 2017, 2019, 2020
• Manchester United (2) = 2018, 2020
• Leicester City (1) = 2016
• Arsenal (1) = 2016