21 hours ago, g3.7 said:

in amongst the positives (which start and finish with the not insignificant blooding of young players), concerns already arise:

1) our defensive problems are essentially structural not individual, and lets not pretend otherwise. yes taking zouma out and putting rudiger in will help (and the same with kante for one of the midfielders), but this is not the reason why we're conceding lots of goals. we're conceding goals because, in every game, we concede huge huge areas of space routinely. 

2) without being unkind, what is the point of playing two midfielders who pass the ball well and do everything else fairly averagely alongside a player who concedes the ball as readily as donald trump concedes the moral high ground? jorginho and ross barkley as as compatible a couple as susan sontag and piers morgan. but probably more painful to watch together. 

3) if you have jorginho and kovacic, and a wide player who is coming infield, and a third player in the middle, and you still can't control the midfield at home to a promoted side then you need to look at the coach.

I wasn't totally convinced by sarri, and I think it is fair to say having a club where the supporters back the manager is hugely important, but let's not beat about the bush; there is no comparison between him and lamps as coaches at this stage. given that, I think success will be not totally embarrassing ourselves this season, and hopefully proving that maybe 2-3 of the kids are realistically going to be chelsea players in the medium / long term. this isn't to have a go at lamps - he's one season in and isn't a jose / guardiola wondercoach - but already this looks like weak, facile management by the people who run the club. if you treat your supporters like customers you are obliged to be better than this.

 

Good post, particularly points 1 and 3, which I totally agree with.

 

Lampard is a novice and he's up against managers who have earned their stripes and who are very good at their job. The signs so far are that he's out of his depth but hopefully that will improve, if we give him time, which I hope we do. Right now, along with Solksjaer, he's the least qualified coach in the Prem, and it shows. He was totally out-coached on Saturday, as he was by Rodgers.

 

Early days but the signs are we're going to struggle, far more than people anticipate. I'll be very surprised if we finish top half, very surprised. This is the big boys' league. We've lost our best player by far, we no longer have that get-out-of-jail card, we're fielding a very young team and we have a rookie in the hot seat. This will be a test of everybody's patience, especially our owner's.

 

Edit: I don't understand the last bit of your post, which I've put in bold. Perhaps you can elaborate.

Edited September 2, 20196 yr by Davey Baby

2 hours ago, evissy said:

Frank will make mistakes but so far in the season he hasn't imo. Bringing on Billy and Michy were not conventional choices but the sub didn't cost us anything and Gilmour saw his dream realized.

I have also been a bit confused about the post-match criticism the substitutions recieved:

Willian for Barkley: This was quite an obvious one, Barkley wasn't having the best of games and it allowed Mount (who had been pretty quiet) to switch to the centre, where he is an obvious goal threat. Nothing strange about this at all.

Batshuayi for Abraham: Your standard like-for-like striker replacement that we see almost every match. If Batshuayi had done nothing at all but somehow managed to poke in a lucky winner then we'd be praising the genius of this decision.

Gilmour for Kovacic: I don't recall anybody complaining about this at the time, actually the reaction seemed generally positive. Gilmour also happened to be the only midfielder left on the bench. Maybe Kovacic was knackered.

23 minutes ago, bluedave said:

I have also been a bit confused about the post-match criticism the substitutions recieved:

Willian for Barkley: This was quite an obvious one, Barkley wasn't having the best of games and it allowed Mount (who had been pretty quiet) to switch to the centre, where he is an obvious goal threat. Nothing strange about this at all.

Batshuayi for Abraham: Your standard like-for-like striker replacement that we see almost every match. If Batshuayi had done nothing at all but somehow managed to poke in a lucky winner then we'd be praising the genius of this decision.

Gilmour for Kovacic: I don't recall anybody complaining about this at the time, actually the reaction seemed generally positive. Gilmour also happened to be the only midfielder left on the bench. Maybe Kovacic was knackered.

 

Barkley had had a poor game but Frank subbed him just as he was beginning to play well. We were hanging on for a win, against a side that were dominating. He decides to bring on the unpredictable Batshuayi for his first outing, rather than the more reliable and experienced Giroud? It makes no sense. As for Kovacic, I'm sure he can get through 90 minutes, he's a fit young footballer. It's not like we'd had a game midweek either. There's plenty of time to rest after the game. Bringing Gilmour on in that situation was asking for trouble and so it proved.

Rudiger and Kanté in our lineup (possibly James considering how poor Dave has been) and our season start looks radically different.

Strange subs against Sheffield but he'll learn. 

26 minutes ago, BordeauxBlue said:

Rudiger and Kanté in our lineup (possibly James considering how poor Dave has been) and our season start looks radically different.

Strange subs against Sheffield but he'll learn. 

Exactly what I was going to post.

Hopefully Rudi will come back and hit the ground running (as he's good but no JT). But with those three available for selection + hopefully soon, CHO and RLC - we will have a much stronger squad for Lamps to choose from and players out of form can be dropped more easily.

 

1 hour ago, Davey Baby said:

 

Barkley had had a poor game but Frank subbed him just as he was beginning to play well. We were hanging on for a win, against a side that were dominating. He decides to bring on the unpredictable Batshuayi for his first outing, rather than the more reliable and experienced Giroud? It makes no sense. As for Kovacic, I'm sure he can get through 90 minutes, he's a fit young footballer. It's not like we'd had a game midweek either. There's plenty of time to rest after the game. Bringing Gilmour on in that situation was asking for trouble and so it proved.

I think the Kovacic change may have had something to do with the knock he took to the face, dont think he was 100% after the blow to the nose.

well i'm enjoying the season if others aren't. Its like yesteryear,  not expecting any great miracles this year, but to me a new Chelsea is so refreshing. The success over the years has been great and hopefully will continue, but seeing all those homegrown players out there and the hunger is great to see. 

"Injured Kovacic" replaced in Croatia squad is one of this afternoon's CFC headlines on NewsNow.

So maybe a few people might like to re-think their criticism of Frank's substitution of him now ?

7 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Best LB in the world according to some on here.

Not even close to best Left back in our squad. Dave would play a lot better on that side imo, always preferred him as a left back to right back, just like Gallas.

6 hours ago, Sindre said:

Emerson is the least of our problems, he's been one of our best players so far this season.

Respectfully disagree on best player part, he has been bang average every game imo.

He is not one of our biggest problems though I agree there.

2 hours ago, chi blue said:

well i'm enjoying the season if others aren't. Its like yesteryear,  not expecting any great miracles this year, but to me a new Chelsea is so refreshing. The success over the years has been great and hopefully will continue, but seeing all those homegrown players out there and the hunger is great to see. 

Feels a bit different, a bit frustrating and disappointing at times, but very much enjoying it all the same. I see this as a 2 to 3 year rebuild, so we'ree going to need to be as parient with Frank as Liverpool were with Klopp. 

Personally I don't think Lampard will last a second season not sure why just don't see it happening.

26 minutes ago, Dixons said:

Feels a bit different, a bit frustrating and disappointing at times, but very much enjoying it all the same. I see this as a 2 to 3 year rebuild, so we'ree going to need to be as parient with Frank as Liverpool were with Klopp. 

He has to be showing signs of progress as the season goes on though, I've always been a big believer in you have to earn time and if he's making the same rookie mistakes constantly in May I'll be worried. I don't want us to be like what United are now who are blindly banging the give it time drum even though OGS is (apart from maybe his recruitment) showing absolutely no signs that he's the right man for the job even though he's had nearly a year.

Its going to be a three year project to challenge for the league sure, but beating the likes of Sheffield United at home is something that should be fully mastered pretty early on.

The potential with Frank is there, he more than matched up tactically to who many people would have down as the world's best manager in the Super Cup, his game plan at Old Trafford for an hour was pretty sound and he read the game well when we went to Norwich however it's firmly on him we are on 2 points instead of 6 at Stamford Bridge. 

If he's learning from the mistakes as we go and having more Liverpool/Norwich games than Leicester/Sheffield then sure he gets all the time he needs but if we are still having these problems this time next year questions have to be asked.

One thing that will be a universal plus with Lamps though is unlike the Conte and Jose's of this world he will put the club before himself, even if the worst comes to the worst with Frank we will likely see the batch of youngsters we have well established in the first team squad which will very much help us in the long run.

Edited September 2, 20196 yr by Argo

"Injured Kovacic" replaced in Croatia squad is one of this afternoon's CFC headlines on NewsNow.
So maybe a few people might like to re-think their criticism of Frank's substitution of him now ?

Bringing off Kovacic wasn't the problem. It was who he brought on. An 18 year old to pair with someone who can rarely defend after 60 mins. Christensen or Alonso would have been more prudent choices given we just had to hold on to the lead. Frank will learn I am sure but his inexperience is clearly showing.

6 minutes ago, TheBlueLamp said:

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

"Injured Kovacic" replaced in Croatia squad is one of this afternoon's CFC headlines on NewsNow.
So maybe a few people might like to re-think their criticism of Frank's substitution of him now ?

Bringing off Kovacic wasn't the problem. It was who he brought on. An 18 year old to pair with someone who can rarely defend after 60 mins. Christensen or Alonso would have been more prudent choices given we just had to hold on to the lead. Frank will learn I am sure but his inexperience is clearly showing.

Either of those would have been a disaster, putting a left back with zero pace or a centre back in ahead of a midfielder would most definitely not have been more prudent. 

9 minutes ago, TheBlueLamp said:

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

"Injured Kovacic" replaced in Croatia squad is one of this afternoon's CFC headlines on NewsNow.
So maybe a few people might like to re-think their criticism of Frank's substitution of him now ?

Bringing off Kovacic wasn't the problem. It was who he brought on. An 18 year old to pair with someone who can rarely defend after 60 mins. Christensen or Alonso would have been more prudent choices given we just had to hold on to the lead. Frank will learn I am sure but his inexperience is clearly showing.

I'm not sure that playing a central defender or a left back in midfield would have been a better choice than a specialist midfielder ... can't recall either of them having played there before, at any club they were at.

Either of those would have been a disaster, putting a left back with zero pace or a centre back in ahead of a midfielder would most definitely not have been more prudent. 

They could at least defend which is what we needed at that point. Lampard has also been unlucky missing Kante and Rudi for so long. Both of them shore up our defense immediately.

5 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

Edit: I don't understand the last bit of your post, which I've put in bold. Perhaps you can elaborate.

it's just a bit of a moan.

 

I think chelsea, not unlike most premier league clubs, are happy to try to extract every last pound out of their customers, all whilst paying lip service to the idea that is is actually a club, that' we're supporters, etc etc

to me appointing the likes of lamps and cech embodies a kind of nasty, corporatised tokenism from the club. as if its supporters are idiots who will lap up this veneer of community while spending £60 on a "chelsea dna" t shirt.

I don't like what I perceive to be an attempt to have it both ways.

either this is a proper sports company, in which case, run it properly, or this is a basket case football club, in which case, appoint people with no experience, hire and fire with no plan etc etc, but maybe do something serious to stop the average age of a matchgoing fan being 59 or whatever. chelsea are not one thing or the other.

1 hour ago, Strider6003 said:

Personally I don't think Lampard will last a second season not sure why just don't see it happening.

 We got away with hiring and firing for years longer than we should have, but those days are over! We'll never catch up with City if we only give managers a year!

3 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

"Injured Kovacic" replaced in Croatia squad is one of this afternoon's CFC headlines on NewsNow.

So maybe a few people might like to re-think their criticism of Frank's substitution of him now ?

Eh? Am I missing something? Everything I’ve read is that he was injured in training so I have no idea how that changes the view of why Frank subbed him. 

7 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Eh? Am I missing something? Everything I’ve read is that he was injured in training so I have no idea how that changes the view of why Frank subbed him. 

Achilles injury is what I've read ... more likely to have turned up with it and been sent home ... we shall see what transpires as to when it happened, but it ties in with the view that he was flagging badly at the end of the Sheffield United game.

Hope its nothing too serious. We'll have three fit midfielders (Jorginho, Barkley, Mount) plus Billy Gilmour from the development squad at the rate we're going !

Just now, Sexyfootball said:

Achilles injury is what I've read ... more likely to have turned up with it and been sent home ... we shall see what transpires as to when it happened, but it ties in with the view that he was flagging badly at the end of the Sheffield United game.

Hope its nothing too serious. We'll have three fit midfielders (Jorginho, Barkley, Mount) plus Billy Gilmour from the development squad at the rate we're going !

+ Lamps, Morris and Newton.

Just now, Backbiter said:

+ Lamps, Morris and Newton.

🤩

For all the doom and gloom, is our season going any worse than Arsenal, Spurs or United’s?

And the difference was they all could invest in their squad. None of them are blooding 3/4 youth players game in, game out.

Alright, not a fantastic start to the season but not an absolute car crash either. Early days yet, more positives than negatives so far for me.

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

I'm not sure that playing a central defender or a left back in midfield would have been a better choice than a specialist midfielder ... can't recall either of them having played there before, at any club they were at.

Not sure an 18 year old making their debut can be classed as a “specialist”.

Zouma’s played in midfield before, he could of slotted in there and Christensen comes into defence. Or just play Christensen there, he’s played it before to help see out games.

Bring Alonso on at left back, move Emerson to left wing and move Mount deeper.

Frank rolled the dice on Gilmore. He didn’t directly do anything wrong but with an already quite inexperienced line up battling to hold the lead Frank didn’t need to throw a complete rookie on, on top of giving Michy his first competitive minutes of the season.

One thing that Hazard was great at was winning free kicks that slow the game down. We could have done with that on Saturday. Loftus cheek also wins free kicks and we miss his physicality.