1 hour ago, Argo said:

Maybe there's something in what @bisright1is saying that we just won't have an out and out 9.

I guess if true it's opponent depending. If we're playing Southampton or a team who push stupidly high I guess Werner but some games maybe Sterling and others maybe Pulisic (i remember the Juve game last season we basically told to run around in that position while Callum and the wingbacks did the damage).

Maybe Tuchel has looked at City last two season's (and Liverpool with Firmino/Jota) and is looking to beat them at their own game at a time they are both ironically going down the out and out 9 route.

Could be TT's plan. Although Jota/Firmino between them in the false 9 contributed 20+ league goals last season. Kai failed to make double figures so would have to make a big step up in that area. Also Liverpool and City could rely on plenty of goals from their midfielders and wingers. We should get an improvement there from Sterling. Beyond that though, based on last season at least, only Mason Mount offers a reliable source of goals from attacking options.

I thought it was a loan, Because TT doesn’t want to lose him, SS saying it’s an upto 30 million sale?

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Don't bet on it. We let Kurt go there on the cheap.

Sounds like 25mill up front with 5mill add ons, basically the same as Kurt.

30m for Kurt was a great fee.

30m for Broja would be even better.

These aren't small fees for players that as of yet haven't shown themselves to be absolutely elite talents.

7 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

In west ham, he has a clear path to reach the top. Moyes will probably use him as part of front 2 in a system that suit him much better than us. If he can smash it with west ham and maybe score 20 goals. He will be considered one of the top st in pl and all big clubs will queue up for his signature. 

If he stay with us, at best he will be back up for kai. I am not even sure he is suited to play as no 9 for us. Two more established st had struggled under Tuchel.

 

The path is pretty much the same, even if he was a guaranteed starter, there isn't any guarantee he'd fit there. The top scorers at the lower levels of PL rarely ends up at a bigger team. It's usually the other way around, CL clubs tend to pick strikers from other CL clubs. To date, only 2 overperforming strikers from the lower levels of the PL had made the step up and both have failed terribly at the highest PL level (having okay numbers but didn't win anything) eg. Lukaku and Carroll. 

If you think Broja would be better served developing under David Moyes then fair play to you. 

It's hard to know what is really going on with Broja.

Is he asking to leave because he wants to be an immediate starter, or is Tuchel telling him he's not in his plans? There is no way for us to know.

If Tuchel is saying there is no place for him in the team, then that is really short sighted on Tuchel's part. I don't think he would say that though, he gave plenty of game time to Sarr and Saul last season and they were rubbish.

It could also be that Broja doesn't want to wait for his chance.

People will say we can't do anything if the player wants to leave, but we can. We can just tell them they are staying and that they will have to take the chances given to them. At the same time though, maybe the club doesn't rate him high enough to bother going through all of that so would rather take the money and bring somebody else in.

With so many unknowns, there really isn't any point in pointing the finger of blame at anybody if he does go.

6 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

It's hard to know what is really going on with Broja.

Is he asking to leave because he wants to be an immediate starter, or is Tuchel telling him he's not in his plans? There is no way for us to know.

If Tuchel is saying there is no place for him in the team, then that is really short sighted on Tuchel's part. I don't think he would say that though, he gave plenty of game time to Sarr and Saul last season and they were rubbish.

It could also be that Broja doesn't want to wait for his chance.

People will say we can't do anything if the player wants to leave, but we can. We can just tell them they are staying and that they will have to take the chances given to them. At the same time though, maybe the club doesn't rate him high enough to bother going through all of that so would rather take the money and bring somebody else in.

With so many unknowns, there really isn't any point in pointing the finger of blame at anybody if he does go.

But we can't though. I mean us as the fans. It's the manager's job to say the player is in my plans and let's keep him. For a younger player, they don't have the power or first team clout to even disrupt the dressing room. 

If there's been one failing Tuchel has for me, it's his inability to get the best or actually not even get the best but attempt to use the players he has got in the squad to function better . He should learn to work with what he has got. Adapt his play style to the personnel he has. 

It's all well and good when you're winning your way but there's an argument to make for adapting your style to suit your players especially when you're so far behind the pack. 

Binned Abraham without much of a look in, even the Lukaku who £100m was spent on for you whether he was your choice or not, doesn't get any help with an adaptation of the team's style to get the best out of him. 

Broja has probably seen all this or heard from him directly about what type of forward play contribution he is looking for from the players and has made the call, it won't be beneficial to him. 

I think it's okay for us to be able to look at the team and constructively criticise the management where we feel they are sub par with their performance. 

36 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

It's hard to know what is really going on with Broja.

Is he asking to leave because he wants to be an immediate starter, or is Tuchel telling him he's not in his plans? There is no way for us to know.

If Tuchel is saying there is no place for him in the team, then that is really short sighted on Tuchel's part. I don't think he would say that though, he gave plenty of game time to Sarr and Saul last season and they were rubbish.

It could also be that Broja doesn't want to wait for his chance.

People will say we can't do anything if the player wants to leave, but we can. We can just tell them they are staying and that they will have to take the chances given to them. At the same time though, maybe the club doesn't rate him high enough to bother going through all of that so would rather take the money and bring somebody else in.

With so many unknowns, there really isn't any point in pointing the finger of blame at anybody if he does go.

So why sign a 5 year deal? Why not follow in the same path as Guehi, Livramento, and NOW Vale?

46 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

30m for Kurt was a great fee.

30m for Broja would be even better.

These aren't small fees for players that as of yet haven't shown themselves to be absolutely elite talents.

You could say the same about Abraham, Guehi, Tomori, Lamptey and Livramento. In hindsight I am sure the club would have asked for more for Abraham and Tomori. But all the other players named had no experience in the PL before they departed us. Abraham did, but hardly set the world alight, partly due to being in a poor team and ended up being benched. But point being is I see more potential from Broja now than I did with Abraham first season. Livramento would probably not go for any less than £40m now and once he returns from injruy, his price tag will go up.

So some times you have to look at potential which Broja has. He is only 20 and his value could be worth double. With him having 4years or so left on his contract, £30m is poor business unless we have a buy back clause at a fair amount. I would think we would include that mandatory otherwise, very poor business. I remember we sold Guehi for £18m and I thought that was good business for us and I was surprised Palace took that gamble but now that is great business and again his value has more than doubled now.

Broja is a kid and has height and speed which is rare and will get better. 

Bit shocked that he's off to The Pikeys on a permanent transfer to ensure game time, over weekend read TT quotes where he expressed that the lad wasn't for sale.  Short sighted if it happens but not that surprising, what gets me is that useless C's up top like Batman  and to a lesser extent Werner, Pully, Zyech etc. have had tons of opportunities and still cant produce, but this lad who I reckon is a better prospect goal scoring wise than all of them doesnt get a look in because 30 mill for an academy player looks good on the balance sheet. Meet the new boss same as the old....

Nothing reputable reporting it but it appears we are adamant in including a buy back but West Ham don't want one. 

This could fall through. 

47 minutes ago, abister1 said:

If there's been one failing Tuchel has for me, it's his inability to get the best or actually not even get the best but attempt to use the players he has got in the squad to function better . He should learn to work with what he has got. Adapt his play style to the personnel he has. 

It's all well and good when you're winning your way but there's an argument to make for adapting your style to suit your players especially when you're so far behind the pack. 

 

It's funny you mentioning adapting on the same note as being behind the pack because the main reason those two are so far ahead is because they didn't bow down to calls to 'adapt' when things didn't go their way early doors. In Guardiola's case that was not keeping Joe Hart or playing more pragmatic after he received a few early hammerings, in Klopp's case that was not ditching the heavy metal football or signing quick fix defenders and keepers.

No one's calling for either to adapt anymore.

12 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Nothing reputable reporting it but it appears we are adamant in including a buy back but West Ham don't want one. 

This could fall through. 

West Ham are a horrible club. Want to pay peanuts to sign players but value Rice at 100+.

I really hope we play hard ball for what we want here. He is on a 4 year contact and ball is in our court. No doubt though we’ll sell for 25m. He’ll score 15-20 goals and be worth 50m in a year’s time. And then, guess what, we value Rice at 120m. They have never got over Cole and Frank loving life here.

2 hours ago, Deino said:

Your specific words were "the best career they can get"

That's not the mentality a kid should have if he wants to play for the top clubs. The very top clubs are about winning something. The "best career" for Broja would have been fighting for that No. 9 spot because had he establish himself well, he'd be an immediate superstar rather than pushing for a move out of Chelsea FC.

Instead you think him going to West Ham is the "best career he can get".

I'm sure Broja will appreciate it that you know what's best for him 

Bit disappointing, with Broja and Colwill pushing for a move away despite having 5 years on contract. You’d never think they were here since 8 years old. All that nurturing and training, develop them into premier league standard footballers, and this is how they pay the club back? Very first glance of big money and premier league, they shoot off.

Disappointing.

30 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

Bit disappointing, with Broja and Colwill pushing for a move away despite having 5 years on contract. You’d never think they were here since 8 years old. All that nurturing and training, develop them into premier league standard footballers, and this is how they pay the club back? Very first glance of big money and premier league, they shoot off.

Disappointing.

Broja still has years left on his contract. But I'm not sure about Colwill. I thought his contract expired in a year which means he is a much stronger bargaining position.

If he goes what it does tell you is Broja doesn’t fit, or he’d be going nowhere, I’m not excited for this season, after spending the previous one watching urs play, ‘Posession at all costs’, and nearly bore every fan into giving up, what’s gonna change, I’ll leave judgement on Sterling, but scoring more goals is an absolute priority, creating them no issues, finishing them, hmmmmmmmm

1 hour ago, Ballack & Blu said:

If he goes what it does tell you is Broja doesn’t fit, or he’d be going nowhere, I’m not excited for this season, after spending the previous one watching urs play, ‘Posession at all costs’, and nearly bore every fan into giving up, what’s gonna change, I’ll leave judgement on Sterling, but scoring more goals is an absolute priority, creating them no issues, finishing them, hmmmmmmmm

We scored a lot of goals last season. It’s a bit of a myth we don’t score enough

17 minutes ago, Adamrb said:

We scored a lot of goals last season. It’s a bit of a myth we don’t score enough

Some correlation, score plenty of goals, still end up miles behind Citeh and the Scouse, and taken to the wire for CL qualification, because we didn't win enough, ie Score enough

16 minutes ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Some correlation, score plenty of goals, still end up miles behind Citeh and the Scouse, and taken to the wire for CL qualification, because we didn't win enough, ie Score enough

Taken to the wire is a bit strong. We always had atleast a game buffer and ultimately made it with two home games to spare (and needed a point in those two for 3rd).

And it was only that "close" because we had to juggle 5 tournaments alongside some pretty unique set of circumstances while Arsenal only had the league to focus on and Spurs just the league and FA Cup.

Edited July 18, 20223 yr by Argo

I wonder if we just need to balance the books and the kids are the most valuable assets we’ve got.

We’d all love to see Timo Ziyech Kennedy Satr Bats Barkley etc sold. But nobody wants our leftovers, especially given the insane wages most of them pocket 

1 hour ago, Adamrb said:

I wonder if we just need to balance the books and the kids are the most valuable assets we’ve got.

We’d all love to see Timo Ziyech Kennedy Satr Bats Barkley etc sold. But nobody wants our leftovers, especially given the insane wages most of them pocket 

So the very first signing we make we pay him  £300k a week. 

7 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Some correlation, score plenty of goals, still end up miles behind Citeh and the Scouse, and taken to the wire for CL qualification, because we didn't win enough, ie Score enough

We gave points away conceding a late goal when we were up by one goal against midtable (or lower) opponents. If we had been up with 2 goals - which could have been possible in view of our chances - that wouldn't have cost us points. In that respect we didn't score enough (leaving clumsy defending aside for a moment).

51 minutes ago, Valerie said:

We gave points away conceding a late goal when we were up by one goal against midtable (or lower) opponents. If we had been up with 2 goals - which could have been possible in view of our chances - that wouldn't have cost us points. In that respect we didn't score enough (leaving clumsy defending aside for a moment).

Exactly, I so wanted to see Broja do well, I hope he scores a bucketload for the Pikeys, I can see a potential Salah, De Brunye fiasco looming

4 hours ago, Valerie said:

We gave points away conceding a late goal when we were up by one goal against midtable (or lower) opponents. If we had been up with 2 goals - which could have been possible in view of our chances - that wouldn't have cost us points. In that respect we didn't score enough (leaving clumsy defending aside for a moment).

This is an interesting point, and one that is heavily backed up by actual facts :-) 

We basically are not scoring enough goals in 50% of our league games ... 

Premier League Season 21/22

Premier League Season 20/21

 

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

This is an interesting point, and one that is heavily backed up by actual facts 🙂

We basically are not scoring enough goals in 50% of our league games ... 

Premier League Season 21/22

Premier League Season 20/21

 

Thankyou for this, us fans ain’t f**king stupid, we know what we see, and we were mostly poor last season🤔