2 hours ago, Salato said:

It really is shocking, for so long this club has had a strong defensive foundation built up in many teams we've had in recent decades, to lose that and become so poor at the back has been a really unpleasant surprise, even with the warning signs at times in recent seasons, this season has been a shocker defensively and really made it clear what a problem it is - whatever attack we've got, just can't be confident in most games when we are so liable to concede.

The third goal was classic Chelsea. Even I didn't see the danger watching. Professional players acting like school kids. We had more than enough bodies to cope but somehow contrived to allow an opposing player to walk into our 6 he box totally untracked. Who is to blame? Multiple suspects combined to make us look like a set of amateurs. Big work needed on the training ground and some players need to be let go. Some experienced heads are required in the team.

I didn't watch the match as I knew we will get dicked, but watched the highlights, and the same defensive mistakes are getting punished. Not picking out players in the box, foolishly giving the ball away in dangerous positions, players showing zero awareness of danger. If we don't address these basic issues we will get nowhere, regardless of who we buy.  

Embarassing performance, even with all the personnel missing. At least the first 2 if not all goals should not have been conceded if we just did the basics right. Say whatever about Lampard and his lack of experience in coaching defenders, how could defenders just let the best striker in the world walk between them, and nobody wanted to put themselves in position to take a throw in, or just people not bother to mark and ball watching. It's the same thing every game, some players just have to learn and get the f* out, because they are probably just uncoachable. The season is over and been a largely successful one, but the last half dozen games ( bar the Wolve game) really put a sour taste.

The tie was lost at the Bridge, bit harsh on the reviews On here today as was always a dead rubber fixture

5 weeks until EPL starts, let’s hope we see some more signings and a new defensive unit that works ?

1 hour ago, charierre said:

The third goal was classic Chelsea. Even I didn't see the danger watching. Professional players acting like school kids. We had more than enough bodies to cope but somehow contrived to allow an opposing player to walk into our 6 he box totally untracked. Who is to blame? Multiple suspects combined to make us look like a set of amateurs. Big work needed on the training ground and some players need to be let go. Some experienced heads are required in the team.

It was bad wasn't it? Christensen pulled out of the defensive line and then for some reason decides to come back in and stand right next to Zouma. Meanwhile a midfielder ghosts behind them both and scores unmarked. Eveyone turns around and blames Emerson? 

I wonder how much language and communication is an issue. Across the back 5 tonight we had 5 different first languages spoken. Now surely all have a good enough level of English but in the moment just a slight misinterpretation can be an issue. 

If you remember at our height we often had a Portuguese speaking side Paulo/Bosingwa and Percy/Alex and an English speaking side JT and Bridge/Cole. 

Edited August 9, 20205 yr by Spiller86

We were never going to win this. I'm predicting Bayern will be European champions this year.

Let's see what we do in the transfer market over the next few week. Bring on next season!

With the transfers we are making and the ambition we are showing we are getting there. The number of players that were in the group we saw yesterday we'll soon be limited drastically and the good results will follow. I'm not taking this match seriously. Frank had only one job this season - not to be a disaster. He overachieved. Roman was going to spend the money anyway as long as we were in top 10 and we didn't get have  a shocker against someone like Barnsley or the Tigers. What did Frank do with this terrible group? Put us in top 4. He took some nasty L's but he also beat Pep, Klopp, Ole, L'Arse and the chickens. 

Citeh and Pool are the top of the world now.  And we are about to challenge them next season. Munich will fall again due to their monopoly of the transfers in Germany and lack of competition as usual. Ever since they destroyed Dortmund on the transfer market 7 years ago they stink in Europe and the will continue to stink because no competition in domestic = PSG in Europe. And they had pretty much the same fate past seasons. 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, the special one said:

Quality finish, Pedro would be proud. Pedro would also put in a shift for the team along with a solid “per 90” performance. Zero defensive contribution from CHO.

Oh dear not this again. Is he the reason we conceded 4 goals? He was on the bench for most games this seasons & we had our worst defensive record in over 2 decades, with a few of those starters putting in the so called “defensive contributions”.

He really isn’t the problem.

Free hit. Wouldn’t have played anyone who has been struggling with injuries. 
 

Bayern were excellent and it really didn’t matter what team we played with the defence we have. 79 goals conceded in all competitions this year speaks its own story. A team of great potential held back by an awful defence and defensive set up. A lot of work needing done at the back. 

7 hours ago, charierre said:

The third goal was classic Chelsea. Even I didn't see the danger watching. Professional players acting like school kids. We had more than enough bodies to cope but somehow contrived to allow an opposing player to walk into our 6 he box totally untracked. Who is to blame? Multiple suspects combined to make us look like a set of amateurs. Big work needed on the training ground and some players need to be let go. Some experienced heads are required in the team.

This is the point isn't it. We can get as many players as we want, and can afford, but with no concept of defensive coaching in our management we will continue to fail. The best signing we can surely hope for is for Lampard and Morris to suck it up and go and hire a world renown defensive coach.

5 hours ago, General said:

The tie was lost at the Bridge, bit harsh on the reviews On here today as was always a dead rubber fixture

5 weeks until EPL starts, let’s hope we see some more signings and a new defensive unit that works ?

I think the reviews on here are not necessarily being directed at this one fixture but is being used to once again highlight a massive shortfall in this set up that has been evident since the very first Man Utd result.

1 hour ago, ducavis said:

Oh dear not this again. Is he the reason we conceded 4 goals? He was on the bench for most games this seasons & we had our worst defensive record in over 2 decades, with a few of those starters putting in the so called “defensive contributions”.

He really isn’t the problem.

True he is not the sole reason why we look shocking defensively. Just as well the focus is away from him because for a player quoted for upwards of 100m a year ago the few occasions he can be trusted to be put on the pitch, his contribution going forward has been sh!t and then gives up in tracking back immediately. Complete fraud massively overrated who will no doubt prevent a player of real talent getting through. I've said before the development squad is the proving ground not here. If you are not up and running within 3-5 appearances you are probably not going to make it, especially in a forward role. People might not like it but that is generally the way.

I know in the scheme of things it didn't matter last night but when did we ever have a VAR decision in our favour?

34 minutes ago, Beerqueen said:

I know in the scheme of things it didn't matter last night but when did we ever have a VAR decision in our favour?

Ajax away.

I know you're right.  But it just seems that in the last two games, we've had them all go against us.  And no discussion from TV of either the goals disallowed for offside yesterday or the handball outside the area last week - I know it sounds like whinging with blue specs but it still seems tough.

Last season their first goal would have been disallowed and our first allowed.  But VAR overturned both.

It still hurts, I did not view it as a dead rubber match .
It was the wrong setup. A case of catastrophic coaching by Lampard.

3 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

True he is not the sole reason why we look shocking defensively. Just as well the focus is away from him because for a player quoted for upwards of 100m a year ago the few occasions he can be trusted to be put on the pitch, his contribution going forward has been sh!t and then gives up in tracking back immediately. Complete fraud massively overrated who will no doubt prevent a player of real talent getting through. I've said before the development squad is the proving ground not here. If you are not up and running within 3-5 appearances you are probably not going to make it, especially in a forward role. People might not like it but that is generally the way.

When was CHO ever quoted as £100m? And how is 1 goal & 5 assists in 852mins not a fair return?  That translates to a contribution ever 142mins, Willian who is well overrated on this forum & heralded for his “defensive contribution” is at 162mins. You take out the pens & that drops to 217mins. Mount who “leads the press” is at 239mins per contribution, can’t even fault him because he is playing out of position. The only player better than him output wise is Pulisic who is at 132mins per contribution. Son is at 118 per contribution, Rashford is at 110 per contribution. Pedro that fans keep banging on about his defensive contribution has 1 goal & 1 assist in 8 starts (662mins). That translates to a contribution every 331mins. How Pedro was meant to help in winning a game we were chasing with that kind of contribution is something only Lamps can explain.

If you are going to compare his performance & deem him overrated, compare him to a Greenwood who is at 119mins per contribution. However bear in mind he started 12games, while Callum only started 7. Greenwood only improved his contribution when he was drafted in in place of James who is another one who is noted for “leading the press”.  And No he isn’t  meant to be in the development squad, neither is he overrated; there is a reason Bayern were desperate to have him. The whole defensive contribution argument is a narrative started by Mourinho as an excuse for not developing De Bruyne & Son, and we can all see how that turned out in the long run. It is actually easier to develop players farther up the pitch as you are less likely to punished for their mistakes.

Edited August 9, 20205 yr by ducavis

1 hour ago, Beerqueen said:

I know in the scheme of things it didn't matter last night but when did we ever have a VAR decision in our favour?

Ajax comes to mind, we got all our decisions for the season in one hit 

16 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

Ajax comes to mind, we got all our decisions for the season in one hit 

Yeah and then got screwed with a ludicrous offside call to stop us winning it and finishing first in the group.

Karma didn't even wait till the game was over.

3 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

Yeah and then got screwed with a ludicrous offside call to stop us winning it and finishing first in the group.

Karma didn't even wait till the game was over.

That chance was gone with Barkley's penalty vs Valencia.

Just now, wizardous said:

That chance was gone with Barkley's penalty vs Valencia.

Don't get me started on that. Although if we had have finished first, Atalanta would have probably scored 7 against us too. And given they gave a load of Valencia fans COVID it may have been for the best that he was selfish and took that penalty.

36 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

Don't get me started on that. Although if we had have finished first, Atalanta would have probably scored 7 against us too. And given they gave a load of Valencia fans COVID it may have been for the best that he was selfish and took that penalty.

Ross Barkley saved our lives. Fact. 

16 hours ago, Munkworth said:

@Boyne I’ve been saving it! Good recommendation 

Yes, it's a fine beer.

When I looked at our bench last night I forgot that one of the young players lived around the corner from me. A friend of mine and her son know the player. Would have been good experience for him if he had been able to get on the pitch for a few minutes but wasn't to be.

Rather surprised we played them with a back four and was that a foul on Kovacic by Muller for their second?

It certainly looked a foul from the angle I saw it on the stream though never saw it from a better angle. 

2 hours ago, ducavis said:

When was CHO ever quoted as £100m? And how is 1 goal & 5 assists in 852mins not a fair return?  That translates to a contribution ever 142mins, Willian who is well overrated on this forum & heralded for his “defensive contribution” is at 162mins. You take out the pens & that drops to 217mins. Mount who “leads the press” is at 239mins per contribution, can’t even fault him because he is playing out of position. The only player better than him output wise is Pulisic who is at 132mins per contribution. Son is at 118 per contribution, Rashford is at 110 per contribution. Pedro that fans keep banging on about his defensive contribution has 1 goal & 1 assist in 8 starts (662mins). That translates to a contribution every 331mins. How Pedro was meant to help in winning a game we were chasing with that kind of contribution is something only Lamps can explain.

If you are going to compare his performance & deem him overrated, compare him to a Greenwood who is at 119mins per contribution. However bear in mind he started 12games, while Callum only started 7. Greenwood only improved his contribution when he was drafted in in place of James who is another one who is noted for “leading the press”.  And No he isn’t  meant to be in the development squad, neither is he overrated; there is a reason Bayern were desperate to have him. The whole defensive contribution argument is a narrative started by Mourinho as an excuse for not developing De Bruyne & Son, and we can all see how that turned out in the long run. It is actually easier to develop players farther up the pitch as you are less likely to punished for their mistakes.

I don't think I compared him to anybody. I can't see that I did. The reason I didn't do that is because you can bend stats to meet your narrative. For example coming on for the last 15 minutes of a game where the opposition is already beaten and adding an assist for an extra goal in a dead game surely cannot be compared to a season's worth of full appearances in league and cup competitions. If so we'd now be saying that Tolisso is the best player Bayern have got cos if we measured his contribution in minutes he probably would have been at a goal per minute last night.

I knows those that rate CHO and those of us that don't will never agree. That's fine. I'm just still waiting to see anything from this kid.

Edited August 9, 20205 yr by WhiteWall