What is next match to Chelsea?

13 hours ago, Dean said:

See my comment at half time.

It's first half's like yesterday that expose the impatient sections of our fanbase. Palace set up with two banks of 4 purely to frustrate us and we were probing and patiently waiting for the chances to come.

2 hours ago, Talal said:

What is next match to Chelsea?

18 October I believe. Two weeks of largely meaningless international football to endure between now and then.

We played a good game. They are going to be tough to break down, so not surprised they kept us at bay until half time. Once we passed better and their energy level went off just a bit, we were able to carve them open. Unlike lots of games last season,we kept going for the second goal, and eventually got a lot more out of it. Having a fullback could attack/defend really made a difference, god knows how many we could have conceded if the usual left backs played. Havertz looked better, got good passing and runs with the ball well, and he's a good ball winner when comes to pressing. CHO took his chance to shine, maybe the transfer rumour just what he needed, hopefully he's still around comes next Tuesday. Silva looked assured, and handled everything ( although very little) been thrown at him. My only negative is with Timo, not because he played badly, just don't like having the big signing striker on the wing, think he had one shot in the whole game that's about it. If Tammy is the preferred striker, for all means bench Timo, but playing him on the left wing ( although he's probably capable) will play him out of form

Edited October 4, 20205 yr by icecoolguy22

1 hour ago, Argo said:

It's first half's like yesterday that expose the impatient sections of our fanbase. Palace set up with two banks of 4 purely to frustrate us and we were probing and patiently waiting for the chances to come.

Indeed. Lampard got tactics spot on, prioritising the aspect of our game that was most badly in need of fixing (the defence - got to run with this back 5 now as far as possible now IMO), focusing on not conceding, patiently probing as you say. It’s the Italian school :). It’s amazing what not conceding and then scoring first can do to a scoreline against a less good team. 1-0 can quickly become 3 or 4-0. If instead we’d gone out guns blazing and conceded early on the counter we could easily have ended up losing. 

The positives

• A very patient performance. No rash urgency in the first half or needless risk taking in the form of hopeful long passes. The team patiently played through the tight Crystal Palace defense and were justly rewarded
• The defence looked settled for the first time...ever. Thiago Silva was good, but what was more impressive was his ability to Marshall the midfield, Zouma and Chilwell. Take a look at the plays where Thiago Silva is directing Zouma to pass to Chilwell and directing Chilwell to drop deeper. This small moment went a long way to resolving a big issue in the first three games - the distance between attack and defense.
• Finally, we had Jorginho dropping deeper to act as defacto centre-back when playing out from the back. This allowed a lot more space in midfield and better passing lanes to Chilwell.
• The team looked comfortable playing a deeper defensive line, but even if they needed to push up, both Zouma and Chilwell clearly have the pace to negate quicker threats.
• Havertz was vastly improved and Hudson-Odoi continued his run of form. Great performances by those two, and both were unlucky to grab a goal each.
• Jorginho played one of his best ever games for Chelsea. A great performance.
• Chilwell is the next pre-injury Wayne Bridge. He takes the ball upfield very quickly while his work-rate allows him to recover from risky positions, traits that we really have not seen since Ashley Cole was last in blue.

The negatives

• At the risk of sounding over the top: Jorginho played one of his best ever games for Chelsea at home to Crystal Palace, and that concerns me in the long-term. When you watch the best deep-lying playmakers you will see them contribute 4-5 key passes a game; Jorginho today had two great long-balls, but little else. He was busy with his short passes but they were often a fraction behind the runner or requiring a bit more control, which in turn results in a loss of space. I want to stress that this is a minor, minor thing and against many teams in the league, it will not matter a bit. Palace sat back and didn't press much in midfield so we were able to get away with that to an extent, but against teams like Leeds, Liverpool, Man City etc that ends up being a problem. 

• Defensively, Jorginho still remains a liability. There was a moment where Zaha rode multiple challenges from him on the counter, with ease. Fortunately, Thiago Silva was across to block the shot. Because he lacks both speed and strength, you can see how teams can play around him with ease and more physical players can simply run through him. I know that people will point to his ability to retain possession but it appears he actually rarely does that because having him play deep to stop the counter can be a liability. There was one moment where Jorginho completely swivelled out of his marker's clutches but you only need to watch the likes of Matic or Mikel to understand that should be a regularity.
   
• Because of the above, we largely controlled the game in spite of our midfield rather than due to them. Chilwell's presence as an outlet was key, his pace allowing him to move the ball quicker upfield than Alonso which means the midfield were under less pressure. 

• The real issue of course is that Kovacic offers merely the opposite of Jorginho; defensively more solid and able to retain and recycle possession, but rarely penetrative in his passing in a team that often needs long-passes played forward quickly.

 

7 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

 

• At the risk of sounding over the top: Jorginho played one of his best ever games for Chelsea at home to Crystal Palace, and that concerns me in the long-term. When you watch the best deep-lying playmakers you will see them contribute 4-5 key passes a game; Jorginho today had two great long-balls, but little else. He was busy with his short passes but they were often a fraction behind the runner or requiring a bit more control, which in turn results in a loss of space. I want to stress that this is a minor, minor thing and against many teams in the league, it will not matter a bit. Palace sat back and didn't press much in midfield so we were able to get away with that to an extent, but against teams like Leeds, Liverpool, Man City etc that ends up being a problem. 
• The real issue of course is that Kovacic offers merely the opposite of Jorginho; defensively more solid and able to retain and recycle possession, but rarely penetrative in his passing in a team that often needs long-passes played forward quickly.

It's interesting when you consider the link to Rice. He doesn't seem to really offer any passing range either. Kante and Kovacic can dribble to progress the ball but neither have great range. 

A Koopmeiners from AZ interests me for this role. Left footer with very nice passing range. Mobility may be a problem similar to Jorginho however.

38 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

The positives

• A very patient performance. No rash urgency in the first half or needless risk taking in the form of hopeful long passes. The team patiently played through the tight Crystal Palace defense and were justly rewarded
• The defence looked settled for the first time...ever. Thiago Silva was good, but what was more impressive was his ability to Marshall the midfield, Zouma and Chilwell. Take a look at the plays where Thiago Silva is directing Zouma to pass to Chilwell and directing Chilwell to drop deeper. This small moment went a long way to resolving a big issue in the first three games - the distance between attack and defense.
• Finally, we had Jorginho dropping deeper to act as defacto centre-back when playing out from the back. This allowed a lot more space in midfield and better passing lanes to Chilwell.
• The team looked comfortable playing a deeper defensive line, but even if they needed to push up, both Zouma and Chilwell clearly have the pace to negate quicker threats.
• Havertz was vastly improved and Hudson-Odoi continued his run of form. Great performances by those two, and both were unlucky to grab a goal each.
• Jorginho played one of his best ever games for Chelsea. A great performance.
• Chilwell is the next pre-injury Wayne Bridge. He takes the ball upfield very quickly while his work-rate allows him to recover from risky positions, traits that we really have not seen since Ashley Cole was last in blue.

The negatives

• At the risk of sounding over the top: Jorginho played one of his best ever games for Chelsea at home to Crystal Palace, and that concerns me in the long-term. When you watch the best deep-lying playmakers you will see them contribute 4-5 key passes a game; Jorginho today had two great long-balls, but little else. He was busy with his short passes but they were often a fraction behind the runner or requiring a bit more control, which in turn results in a loss of space. I want to stress that this is a minor, minor thing and against many teams in the league, it will not matter a bit. Palace sat back and didn't press much in midfield so we were able to get away with that to an extent, but against teams like Leeds, Liverpool, Man City etc that ends up being a problem. 

• Defensively, Jorginho still remains a liability. There was a moment where Zaha rode multiple challenges from him on the counter, with ease. Fortunately, Thiago Silva was across to block the shot. Because he lacks both speed and strength, you can see how teams can play around him with ease and more physical players can simply run through him. I know that people will point to his ability to retain possession but it appears he actually rarely does that because having him play deep to stop the counter can be a liability. There was one moment where Jorginho completely swivelled out of his marker's clutches but you only need to watch the likes of Matic or Mikel to understand that should be a regularity.
   
• Because of the above, we largely controlled the game in spite of our midfield rather than due to them. Chilwell's presence as an outlet was key, his pace allowing him to move the ball quicker upfield than Alonso which means the midfield were under less pressure. 

• The real issue of course is that Kovacic offers merely the opposite of Jorginho; defensively more solid and able to retain and recycle possession, but rarely penetrative in his passing in a team that often needs long-passes played forward quickly.

 

Kovacic in the short time he was on played two killer balls. This idea that he isn’t capable of incisive passes is a myth founded upon the inability of the recipients of his passes to capitalise on them. 

Good match and also good performances from everyone although the attack with Tammy and Werner needs a change. 

We looked fine but Palace didn't really challenge us we will see how we cope with more pressure and quality against us. 

11 hours ago, DaRick said:

I watched it a lot 20 years ago or thereabouts (when it was popular in Australia), and I still revisit it every once in a while.

You must be from a country where Dragon Ball was more popular.

I only saw a little bit of Dragon Ball because it was on cable TV here rather than free-to-air (unlike DBZ). 

@Scott Harris would confirm that DBZ was far more popular in the Anglosphere than DB was. 

Yeah, Dragon Ball Z was a lot more popular than Dragon Ball here in the UK. Dragon Ball didn't start airing until after all Dragon Ball Z episodes were aired. I didn't even know Dragon Ball existed before Dragon Ball Z when I was a kid. The first time I seen Dragon Ball was on a RTL 2, a German tv channel that my dad used to be able to get on his old Astra satellite dish.

2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Yeah, Dragon Ball Z was a lot more popular than Dragon Ball here in the UK. Dragon Ball didn't start airing until after all Dragon Ball Z episodes were aired. I didn't even know Dragon Ball existed before Dragon Ball Z when I was a kid. The first time I seen Dragon Ball was on a RTL 2, a German tv channel that my dad used to be able to get on his old Astra satellite dish.

WTF?

City, UTD and Liverpool absolutely dissembling this could be our season if we get it together 

1 hour ago, SFL82 said:

City, UTD and Liverpool absolutely dissembling this could be our season if we get it together 

We are only 4 games in, I don't see this strange start to the season continuing beyond about 8 games before things settle down to some sort of normality.  Everton could be the surprise winners here if they continue their good start. 

25 minutes ago, CFCCAN said:

We are only 4 games in, I don't see this strange start to the season continuing beyond about 8 games before things settle down to some sort of normality.  Everton could be the surprise winners here if they continue their good start. 

Liverpool's next match is the Merseyside derby in Goodison Park.

A draw there, plus favourable results from Leicester-Villa and City-Arsenal could put us a mere 3 points from the top, assuming we beat Soton.

Those first 8 or so matches can have a huge influence on the entire season

Edited October 4, 20205 yr by Eden17

21 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

18 October I believe. Two weeks of largely meaningless international football to endure between now and then.

Oh it is long time

On 04/10/2020 at 08:38, Spiller86 said:

It's interesting when you consider the link to Rice. He doesn't seem to really offer any passing range either. Kante and Kovacic can dribble to progress the ball but neither have great range. 

A Koopmeiners from AZ interests me for this role. Left footer with very nice passing range. Mobility may be a problem similar to Jorginho however.

Gilmour is worth the risk. 

Two of our defenders, Zouma and Chilwell, in Tony Cascarino’s team of the week ... when was the last time that happened?
 

40 minutes ago, OnePeterOsgood said:

Two of our defenders, Zouma and Chilwell, in Tony Cascarino’s team of the week ... when was the last time that happened?
 

Probably when we still had JT in our club

2 hours ago, Andy North said:

Gilmour is worth the risk. 

Yeah I'm torn on Billy. I love him throwing himself around the pitch but I really wish he was half a foot taller and a couple of stone heavier. I fear he might just not quite have the physical skills to play deep in midfield long term.

Would love him to prove me wrong though. Been too long since we've had a Scot in the first team. 

On 05/10/2020 at 12:54, Spiller86 said:

Yeah I'm torn on Billy. I love him throwing himself around the pitch but I really wish he was half a foot taller and a couple of stone heavier. I fear he might just not quite have the physical skills to play deep in midfield long term.

Would love him to prove me wrong though. Been too long since we've had a Scot in the first team. 

Hard as nails those guys. Makele was no giant.

On 05/10/2020 at 12:54, Spiller86 said:

Yeah I'm torn on Billy. I love him throwing himself around the pitch but I really wish he was half a foot taller and a couple of stone heavier. I fear he might just not quite have the physical skills to play deep in midfield long term.

Would love him to prove me wrong though. Been too long since we've had a Scot in the first team. 

I agree about Billy not sure he suits a Lampard team.

I think Frank wants strong and quick DMs and Billy for me is more like Jorginho.

3 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

I agree about Billy not sure he suits a Lampard team.

I think Frank wants strong and quick DMs and Billy for me is more like Jorginho.

He'll do for now at least. He's shown terrific potential and lets face it he is very young and Kante can't go on for ever. I too like big players in midfield but over the years we've had Makele and Kante so you can't write the small players off. 

I'm hoping Ampadu has a great season at Sheffield Utd and comes back next season. He may well turn out to be better than Rice.

Makele was incredibly strong forcing bigger players off the ball, he had a change a of pace to dribble around players and when he went to ground he tackled cleanly. 

Rice to be fair has a change of gear and can force players off the ball and Ampadu does this too.

Has Ampadu had a lot of injuries otherwise you have to ask why we sent him out on loan?

What I liked about our game against Palace was that it's like Lampard is trying to catch opponents off guard with different tactics every match. He played a tactics similar to Sarri's style in that match, if he truly has a lot of tactics up his sleeves, I will be very happy.

That will mean opponents may look at our line up one hour before the match and not be able to predict how we are going to play. Teams will not be able to predict how we will play based on our previous matches.
In that midfield we have Mateo(M1), Kante (K), Jorginho (J), Mount (M2), Havertz (H). We can play M1KH, that's a different style from, JKH, it's different from KM2H, it's different from M1KM2, it's different from M1JH or M1JM2. We will really do well against small teams.
Against big teams, because of the frailty we have in our defensive midfield, I feel we should use Kante, Mount and Havertz in midfield so that even if we conceed, we will have enough guys up front too who will score. If we go and use Jorginho, many attackers will not be upfront.
And we may be conceeding goals because of Jorginho.
Against big teams, we should play all attack direct football with Kante, Mount and Havertz. The opponents can score but let's see if we can be scoring more goals than our opponents. Wit only Kante as DM, we may conceed at times, maybe to very good teams, but if going forward, we can score too, then it's good.
That's the sense I'm making from Chelsea so far this season.

On 04/10/2020 at 07:47, icecoolguy22 said:

We played a good game. They are going to be tough to break down, so not surprised they kept us at bay until half time. Once we passed better and their energy level went off just a bit, we were able to carve them open. Unlike lots of games last season,we kept going for the second goal, and eventually got a lot more out of it. Having a fullback could attack/defend really made a difference, god knows how many we could have conceded if the usual left backs played. Havertz looked better, got good passing and runs with the ball well, and he's a good ball winner when comes to pressing. CHO took his chance to shine, maybe the transfer rumour just what he needed, hopefully he's still around comes next Tuesday. Silva looked assured, and handled everything ( although very little) been thrown at him. My only negative is with Timo, not because he played badly, just don't like having the big signing striker on the wing, think he had one shot in the whole game that's about it. If Tammy is the preferred striker, for all means bench Timo, but playing him on the left wing ( although he's probably capable) will play him out of form

Well said. Playing a big money striker signing on the wings, I don't get this from Lampard. Who does that? Just put him in his position already. How will you put Aguero on the wings, just because he is very good and he can play there? You don't do that.

About Ben Chillwell, I think that's the best left back performance I've ever seen in my entire life in the whole world. Even Marcelo, I don't think his crosses are as good as that cross that Ben Chillwell gave Zouma to score that second goal. On top of that, he was taking our corner kicks. OMG, that was some performance. 

I hope he continues like that.